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Abortions - Your thoughts

I'm not pro-choice or pro-life, I'm pro-abortion. I hate kids and there are already too many people in this country and on this planet.
 
Originally posted by Aishas Star
Sorry anna???


I just thought you should elaborate on the "But.."

Pro-choice. A friend of mine is having her baby any day now, shes 16.. She wants to keep it and im sure she'll be a great mother... But..


But.. you have an opinion on what is really a very personal choice? But she shouldn't have continued with the pregnancy?
 
No i dont have any opinion on it, as i said she will be a great mother, although i do think she is a bit young, you need to grow up your self before you help someone else to. She isnt the most mature girl ive met.
 
Everyone else is aloud to have their own thoughts, why do you question mine?

Im in no way saying she should have had it terminated, just that she should have been more careful in the first place.
 
I'm going to keep this on topic, but just say that you're not the centre of my universe, I questioned what you said because it seemed like there was more to what you were saying and I wanted to know what it was. Most of the people in this thread have echoed my own sentiments, so I have no reason to ask them about what they're saying.

So anyway, on topic, I think pro-choice should come with a "no one is allowed to comment on the choice I've made" clause :)
 
of interest to this thread

Abortion rate a tragedy, says Abbott




Adelaide
March 17, 2004

Tony Abbott says 100,000 abortions reflect on moral health.
Picture: Penny Bradfield


The rate of abortion in Australia was a national tragedy and society had too lax an attitude towards sexual promiscuity among teenagers, federal Health Minister Tony Abbott said yesterday.


Speaking at Adelaide University on the ethical role of a Christian politician, Mr Abbott, a Catholic, said there were 100,000 abortions in Australia each year, which he labelled a measure of the nation's moral health.


"An objectively grave matter has been reduced to a question of the mother's convenience," Mr Abbott told students amid boos and jeers from protesters.


"Aborting a foetus is not morally identical to deliberately killing a living human being, but it's not just removing a wart or a cyst either.


"Even those who think that abortion is a woman's right should surely be troubled by the fact that 100,000 Australian women choose to destroy their unborn babies every year."


Two hecklers were escorted out of the building by security guards during the speech.


His comments also prompted a protest chant of, "Get your morals off our bodies."


But Mr Abbott responded by saying he was not merely giving his own moral viewpoint.


"If you listened, you'll know that what I'm not talking about is my morals, what I'm talking about is our morals, morals that have always been part of the tradition of Western culture," he said.


"Why isn't the fact that 100,000 women choose to end their pregnancies regarded as a national tragedy?


"Why isn't it regarded as a national tragedy approaching the scale of Aboriginal life expectancy being 20 years less than the average of the general community?


"No one wants to bring back the backyard abortion clinic or to stigmatise the millions of Australians who have had abortions or encouraged others to do so.


"But is it really so hard to create a culture where people understand that actions have consequences and take responsibility seriously."


Mr Abbott said abortion was the "easy way out" and too little consideration was given to "avoiding the situation where difficult choices might arise".


"If just half the effort was put into discouraging teenage promiscuity as into preventing teenage speeding, there might be fewer abortions," he said.


Mr Abbott was greeted on arrival at the university by a small group of protesters chanting: "Racist, sexist, anti-queer, Abbott, you're not welcome here."


There was also a small group of students supporting him, including two men holding banners that said, "We love you Tony," and, "Abbott, you rock my world."

- AAP
Click to expand...

from http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/16/1079199224910.html
 
i think i need sleep :(

i'm pro-choice, but the arguments are quite compelling, logically, in both directions.

i was reading a book for my philosophy class a few weeks back, which contained about four essays on the topic, and it struck me that the most logically sound (and entirely reasonable in terms of logic, cohesiveness etc.) were made by the pro-lifers.

it seems *very* difficult to justify the termination of a child on any grounds, assuming you accept the prima facie premise that killing a human or person is a wrong.

the thing is, i am totally pro-choice - common sense dictates that it's better to terminate an unwanted pregnancy than bringing it into the world and thus depriving it of future rights and the like. and the common sense fact that it's obviously the mother's right to do as she wishes with her body (but we must also distinguish the baby's right to life, it just so happens that it is dependant on the mother) - i guess the problem is the paradoxical juxtaposition of rights here, those of the mother's and those of the child's.

the most interesting thing that i gained from these essays though - the fact that once artificial wombs are commonly used (and cheap enough to be the easy option), it would seem that abortion might become entirely outlawed. though it is obviously distressing for a mother -who doesn't want a child but does become pregnant- to have to give up their child for adoption, it seems fairly unjustifiable to terminate them (for only this reason) when viable opportunities to keep them alive (the artificial womb) exist.

very complex arguments that i couldn't hope to sum up here, but very interesting too. actually, having written this out, i've just realised that perhaps the best line of reasoning for a pro-choicer to pursue is one of "the greater good"? in outlining the inevitability of a totally disadvantaged life then perhaps one could justify a foetus's termination?

okay, maybe not...i just realised that this would also, almost, justify killing off pretty much anyone with less opportunities/crappy life situations, and that ain't good :)

well, there ya go, you just saw me nut out and totally bail on a shitty argument...wasn't that fun? er, nothing to see here, move along.
 
I think its really sad that so many women have to make this decision. I think its sad that so many women have abortions - I don't like the idea of abortion; the procedure itself is safe enough, safer and less risky than most surgical procedures but the emotional and social side effects are much greater. I feel its a life from conception but I don't believe abortion is murder. I don't believe people who haven't or won't ever have to make this decision, are entitled to an opinion.

Why, when we have so many contraceptive options available to us, when schools are taking responsibility for teaching children about sex education, are so many women still experiencing unwanted pregnancy?

I had an abortion three years ago. I will never forgive myself and I will never stop thinking of how old that child would have been. I made a STUPID mistake, there are no excuses. Previously, I had always been pro choice, but thought I could never have an abortion. I was wrong. The worst thing was, I wanted the baby, felt attached and bonded to my pregnancy but not having any family or money and being in a difficult situation I felt it was the only option. Had I thought about it more, had I not panicked or been over-emotional, I would have had the baby and realised there are options open to single mothers

Pro choice is the only option, but that doesn't make it simple.
 
I think this is a personal topic and I think until you are in a situation where you have to decide, no one can really decide what they would or wouldn't do.

I was anti abortion for a long time until I had to make a decision...now I am pro choice. I don't think any one should be made to feel bad about their decision either. I made a decision 8 years ago to terminate a pregancy to my abusive ex boyfriend and I still to this day think it was the best decision I made. Not an easy one, but I was 17 and there was no way I was ready to bring a child into this world.

However, I do now have a child, who I love dearly, and having my abortion didn't scar me in anyway! It was actually amazing, when I was deciding what to do about terminating or not, that when you ask the question, a lot of people have actually had abortions but are too scared to mention it incase of ridicule. I found out that a lot of my friends at the time had been through it and I had a lot of support.

Cheers,

Christine.
 
What I believe in is the right of choice for woman.

Take away contraceptives and the right to have an abortion and your taking away womans right to choose.

Too many woman are having kids they dont want and raising them unloved and unwanted.

At least adopt out or abort for the childs sake.

I know I was an unplanned and unwanted teenage pregnancy and Ive spent my whole life never made not to forget it either.
 
u do have a choice... it when ur in bed :p
unless u get raped, in which case its a diff story
 
For those of you who think a woman is entitled to an abortion only for a specific reason such as rape - how about someone who is diagnosed with cancer while they're pregnant? Or someone who could die if they give birth? Or someone who has a severe mental illness?

If you only believe women should have terminations for what I'm assuming you think are 'good' reasons, then at the very least think a bit more broadly about the topic.

:\
 
^^ I agree maybe I was being too narrow.

What I meant is if the person CHOSE to have sex and is MENTALLY sane, they shouldn't have a right to abortion.

And if the life of the mother is in risk by the birth of the child, I would also support abortion.

I only dont support it, when theres no risk of life for the mother, and she did what she did out of free will.
 
Abortion is such a god damn tricky issue..... and when you look at it philosophically it's even more of a headfuck......

Nearly everyone here seems to be pro-choice, but the simple response that choice is the highest right is not enough, because it does not at all dismiss why the child should have a right to life.

I think Anna said that a women should be able to decide what happens inside her own body, which is a reasobly strong argument, but the same women should also question how carless they were with their own body to create the pregnancy (not in all cases of course).

Even if the child weren't to be brought up that great, does this automatically over-ride their right to experience life?

A line has to be drawn on what makes an abortion acceptable (ie when the baby can feel pain, can live outside the womb, can first be felt kicking etc.) and unnaceptable morally. From Peter Singer's readings I was completely convinced that none of these lines have enough strength to justify an abortion being morally acceptable if they happen at a cetrain time into the pregnancy.

The only exception to this was the line of when the being becomes sensient and aware..... and arguing that before this occurs you are not taking away it's right to live as due to not having a sense of self, it has no concious desire to keep living. The unfortunate connsequence that this results in however is that if we accept abortion as morally okay on these grounds, then infantacide has to be okay as well, due to the fact that the infant is also not sensient.

Just planting seeds people, with a little help from philosophy last year ;)
 
Ok - philosophical arguments read and taken on board - Is it acceptable to have IVF treatment when literally thousands of embryos are thrown out on a daily basis? How about stem cell research? Is that acceptable?

Remember, an embryo is a life with a right to live, much like a foetus which is thus called from the eighth week of development within the uterus.

Would be interested to hear people's comments, emotions aside, I find this topic quite interesting.
 
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