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AA - Inexperienced - Take what you want, and leave the rest.

Hey, great positive post Mariposa, and yes, take what you want and leave the rest behind. I have been trying to tell this to people to no avail, they get stuck on the religious part, and can't go beyond that, it takes intelligence to know what you can use, and throw out the rest!

Thanks for the input!
 
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^exactly...and not just the religous part...but the one where they say you have absolutely no will power..Use some logic for a second. If you had ZERO will power, you'd been long dead of an overdose after sucking dick to get the single hot shot. Case in point. Don't mean to throw this thread off the rails, so I'll sftu...cuz M-posa rulez
 
^See, that's the thing with me is that I have tried out several vices (as you know) and none took hold of me the way alcohol did. I have a distaste for the lifestyle that goes with long-term "hard drug" use and never had a problem putting down the straw or the pipe when the time came. I do not use hard drugs now, but if I did in the future, I'd have a reasonable basis to expect the same. I have an aversion to needles and I'd like to keep my nasal passages and teeth, not to mention my sanity.

Alcohol being so freely available and socially sanctioned definitely contributed to making it my DOC.

I drank beer and cider - a good amount but controlled, no incidents - this weekend. I drink less now out of necessity since I am on Tramadol for a busted knee as well... secondarily I am using low doses to treat my depression and it appears to be putting a big dent in that. Mixing it with any more than a small amount of alcohol gives me severe nausea.

Approaching my relationship with alcohol analytically rather than subscribing to the AA philosophy that in order to achieve "absolution" I have to admit and thus relive in explicit detail every bad thing I have ever done because of alcohol has improved my self-esteem. My self-esteem was very broken at the time I entered AA for a lot of reasons, and AA confirmed my (false) belief that I was a useless, asshole drunk who would die alone and wasted. Doing the Fourth Step reconfirmed those negative beliefs.

It is taking a lot of effort to overcome the effects the "programming" has had on my self-esteem, and through the process of writing about my experience (as I mentioned before) I am hopefully benefiting others.

www.agnosticaa.org has a lot of valuable informations for atheists and agnostics who are considering the 12-Step approach, including friendly versions of the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions.
 
Right on J... :) ...i'm considering SMART recovery now...fuck NA...I haven't read it yet cuz i've been busy and got arrest/court/long story and i'm seriously innocent. Anyways, I'm not gonna mention your name or anything..you know me somewhat. From the last few posts of yours (and you're GREAT RELAPSES! ;) hang in...it's just boredum dear...well in your case..you told me...so..i can't say shit), anyways...I feel like walking into my local NA chapter now and cramming down SMART through their assholes....fucking idiots and punters...I honestly SWEAR (cussing) to the higher power (har har) and yeah i'm fucking trashed drunk right now...but alcohol was never my problem....yeah i'm a needle freak/etc..................shot up meth in that restaruant...nuff said...............

Oh yeah...thanks for the athiests(LOL...fuck you all)/AGNOSTIC link...seriously...so much...much love... -T
 
^I've been honest about the fact that I have returned to drinking since the original post, and that now I am able to enjoy alcohol in small/moderate amounts (2-3 beers or ciders throughout the night). I am too embarrassed to write how much vodka I used to drink - I haven't had vodka or any spirits in several weeks now. I think at this point it would make me sick. I suspect the SNRI effect of the tramadol regimen I am on may have an impact as well. I do not crave alcohol or find it as reinforcing in general.

I know you were drunk when you wrote this ;) so I am sure I don't have to tell you not to disrupt an NA meeting. ;) Many paths, one way, my friend.

In the atheist/agnostic AA tradition, the Higher Power is generally the group or fellowship.
 
Mariposa, be prepared for a shitstorm by the people of AA if you were to ever tell them that. For a true alcoholic, moderation is simply IMPOSSIBLE. In fact, most addicts find the moderation of anything impossible. I believe you'll do just fine if you do what your doing and don;t go overboard. There are so many things about AA/NA I want to say right now, that I have kept down for so long. It's like being an abused child, and remaining silent of the events for many years. When the time comes to speak, where do you begin?
The only thing I WILL say is the idea of an atheist/agnostic AA/NA group is silly. AA is Christian based self help group. Alcoholic's anonymous is just that. I was told once that if I didn't believe in God, then that I should just leave the meeting now because Alcoholics Anonymous in the long run will not help me. Now, I will point out that there are OTHER groups using the 12-step model of addiction. This is used at almost all "successful" rehabs (inpatient and outpatient) and self supported self help groups.

Oh, Mariposa, don't worry about becoming one of their statistics. Most of them are exaggerated or just completely false. They won't allow outside agencies do any research onn them (unless their(aa) involved) I posted some statistics and theirs a lot on the internet but some are very conflicting. Bottom line is that AA is Financially booming while the success rate is flunking.
 
^Oh, no way do I plan on telling anyone from there that I have drank. It's more or less moot as I haven't attended a meeting, though the fellowship is literally 4 blocks from my house. None of them know my last name or where I live. I'll probably run into one eventually, most likely while buying a beer or something. ;)

AA is said to act as a "feeder group" for 12-step based rehabs. I did not have any of that pushed on me, but then, I did not have a sponsor. And are they really financially booming? They are allegedly not for profit and I never gave them more than $1 per meeting (which I gave because I live in a high-rent area). If you have some stats on this or an idea where to get them beyond Google/journal sources, I'd love to see them.

I am glad I took control over my drinking when I did and that I did not get sucked in to the AA mentality so far. I have to credit them with a bit of success in my case - the program broke me down just the way it was designed to. Luckily I saw what was happening and terminated it. I am not a paranoid person but there was just no way these people were acting the way they were without any expectation of something in return.
 
The dollar you donate goes to rent usually, and whatever other evens * we had VERY large new years eve partys. Still, it was $10 at tje door. But the catering was amazing, We also had yearly picnics financed with ither ither defitirk The literature is what really brings in the revenue fpr AA, Christ, I could write a self help book. "Coping with change"
 
PureLife (and others critical of the 12-Step movement in general) - have you ever read Orange Papers? It's a website that's pretty meticulously researched and very critical of especially AA. Much of the reasoning is sound although you get the impression that the person who created the site had a lot of time and bitterness on their hands.

Check it out.

Still not craving alcohol and nothing horrible happened from the cider I had last night.
 
Yeah...most people aren't addicted to alcohol. You'd have a hard time believing that spending time in an AA meeting, though.
 
Mariposa said:
^I've been honest about the fact that I have returned to drinking since the original post, and that now I am able to enjoy alcohol in small/moderate amounts (2-3 beers or ciders throughout the night). I am too embarrassed to write how much vodka I used to drink - I haven't had vodka or any spirits in several weeks now. I think at this point it would make me sick. I suspect the SNRI effect of the tramadol regimen I am on may have an impact as well. I do not crave alcohol or find it as reinforcing in general.

I know you were drunk when you wrote this ;) so I am sure I don't have to tell you not to disrupt an NA meeting. ;) Many paths, one way, my friend.

In the atheist/agnostic AA tradition, the Higher Power is generally the group or fellowship.
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Rightious/thanks. You're input has always been enlightening, thought-provoking and fun. Wish we all hung out more.

About the tramadol (I assumed you're RX'd it?)...just a word of heed here...when I was in highschool I'd snag ultrams all the time from the kitten litter from my dad's samples that ultram would send to for trying to sling them to patients/ect. It was good and all (this was before heroin, but doesn't matter)...so what, up to 800mg is considered a safe medically prescribed dose? Even after lots of tolerance to it, I must have gotten 3 mild-medium seizures from the crap, and one time that and a full on bout of delirium, seizing and thinking I was some random inmate inside the TV, having no idea of my past ego/Dexter/etc...a group of friends had to hold me down, shaking and slapping me out of it...it subsided after only a couple minutes but was FUCKED to say the least...the delerium induced full on hullucinations of the marry-go-round that discharges from the jail and back into reality was kinda cool though :\
 
^I take 50 mg most days, 100 if I want a little more pep. It is indeed prescribed. I couldn't imagine going much higher than that; I'm well aware of the seizure risk (which alcohol withdrawal can also do).

I'm looking into whether the SNRI effects might have anything to do with my depression alleviating or if they could be implicated in my no longer really craving alcohol.
 
^exactly...you did your homework...good. I'd get off the tramadol to be honest..I mean, do you really want to potentially get hooked on opiates? You know? ya, you're only at 50-100 right now........but.......etc. And once you hit 800...WATCH THE FUCK OUT. ...shit 600 even.

Oh yeah, from "The Wire", "Getting clean is the easy part...now life......that's some shit." (Or something like that :) )...I use the NA meetings mostly/soley for networking with other living human beings that understand something about life, or at least try their best, you know? Fuck the rest..you know what you have to do. Hang in there....fuck hanging...fucking do what you gotta do. -T
 
DexterMeth said:
Oh yeah, from "The Wire", "Getting clean is the easy part...now life......that's some shit." (Or something like that :) )...I use the NA meetings mostly/soley for networking with other living human beings that understand something about life, or at least try their best, you know? Fuck the rest..you know what you have to do. Hang in there....fuck hanging...fucking do what you gotta do. -T
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That is a very good point Dex, both the life aspect being some shit, as well as the networking. It is good to go into a NA meeting and see VP's of large business and sole proprietors, people doing well in general in life.
 
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