fallen_eden
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2007
- Messages
- 13
[Mod Disclaimer:What you are about to read is extremely dangerous. The femoral vein literally rests against the femoral artery, and if you inject anything in to the femoral artery, there is a very good chance it could be the last time you ever inject anything. Shooting anything in to any artery can be fatal, so its suggested that you try to find another suitable injection site before you even consider using this one. Also, its a good idea to consider getting help if youve come to the point where injecting something into your femoral vein is required.
Please, if you decide to use this method, consider other options first. There are plenty of other safer areas that you can inject into before this becomes necessary. Try your hands, your feet, forearms, bicep, or ankles. Those are all safer and easier to hit veins than the femoral vein is. - sixpartseven]
[Disclaimer: Before all the suppsed "harm reduction" folks out there jump on me without reading the post and start flaming me for explaining how to inject into the femoral vein, I'll say it first: I'm NOT recommending or endorsing the use of the femoral vein for injection. It is a dangerous place to inject and should only be used as a last resort! Try all your other options before attempting femoral injection! I'll explain some safer options in this thread as well.]
And first off, here's yet another link to the well known, must read "general" guide to injection, Getting Off Right:http://www.harmreduction.org/downloads/idu_manual.pdf
Well, after doing many of my own searches on how to hit that well-known but little talked about "femoral vein," also known as "that fat vein in your groin area," I finally figured it out after some tedious research. Since I've only found threads here on BL asking how to hit that vein (and read the very unhelpful responses telling the inquirer that they're a moron for even thinking of doing such a thing), I decided to create a basic guide for femoral injection for any other curious injecting BLers to read.
Firstly, if you think all your other injection spots are dry, think again! You've probably exhausted your arms and hands, maybe you're sick of missing in your thigh, you keep getting bruises on your calves, and your feet and ankles are painful as hell and you can't even keep yourself steady so as to not miss your shots there.. Well then, before the femoral, here are a few others:
-Your torso! (on either side of your stomach, around your waistline, there are large vertical-running veins usually visible beneath the skin.)
-On the Hand:
--Webbing of the hands and in between your fingers (in between your fingers is sort of guessing as you might not see anything clearly there. Try directly in between your ring and middle finger on either hand and you might find something-I did!)
--Top of the hand and the outside of the hand (on your pinky finger side, running vertically, are veins you usually don't see when looking at the top of the hand for a vein; you have to twist your arm to see them. And look again carefully over the top of your hand and along the outside of the thumb.)
--Fingers (veins run over your knuckles which are usually popping out of the skin and pretty visible. These run into your upper fingers where they are easier/less painful to hit.)
--Inside of the wrist (these are actually safe to hit- my doctor once tried to draw blood from me in those spidery-looking blue things, and actually told me they were safe veins to inject into as well.)
--Some people have tried their palm, but this is increasingly painful and I don't really recommend it. Also, palm of hand = lots of bacteria. Also bad bruising.
-Top of the foot, the tops of your toes, big toe in particular, in between your toes (I've heard many people say in between toes works, though I personally never tried it.)
-Around the top of the knee and inside of the knee (have to twist your leg around to see the veins on the inside.)
-Chest (not recommended for women as a miss could harm your breasts and such, but the veins are still usable if you are careful.)
-Again, thighs (twist your thigh over and make sure to look at the outside for veins also), calves, and ankles can all be used, make sure you look them over and try the other suggestions above before going for your femoral. The ultimate last resort vein is probably the internal or external jugular vein, which I have seen people hit, but it is extremely dangerous as the internal jugular is located right next to the carotid artery. Puncturing the carotid artery can be very life-threatening! (Stupid nurses in hospitals have nearly killed people by jabbing the carotid when they were aiming for the jugular, and if they can't hit it, we shouldn't assume that "amateurs" like ourselves could!)
Also, if you take a look at these places mentioned and still can't see anything, try the hot bath trick. Run a nice, steamy hot bath and sit in it with the bathroom door closed as if you want to make the place a sauna, wait for 5 minutes and check again if any veins have popped into view (I do this frequently, it REALLY makes a difference). Also drink lots of water (drinks like gatorade or poweraid might also help), try doing pushups, jumping jacks, jogging around the block, running up and down stairs, lifting light weights, or basically any type of exercise that will get that heart pumping, subsequently filling those veins up with blood so you can see 'em! Also keep in mind that smoking tends to constrict veins! Have your cigarrette after you hit, not before. Heat in general can often bring up veins even better than a tie. Turn up the heaters, try to find somewhere inside to use, and avoid being anywhere cold- the cold also constricts veins.
But, as shit always happens, sometimes you can't be inside, or you can't run that hot bath.. or, maybe you can do those things and you're frustrated because you still can't see any good veins. Then we can think about potentially using the femoral vein. If you use it, do not get into the habit of it! The femoral is an imporant vein for hospital nurses in case you have an accident and they can't find any veins on your arm to insert an IV to give you blood or medications. (And you really don't want those idiots fucking around trying to get your internal jugular or subclavian vein. It's way worse to hit the carotid artery than the femoral artery.)
So, after we've exhausted all the other options, here's how we find the femoral vein.
Now, in the picture above, the BLUE thing is the femoral vein. The RED one is the femoral artery. And the yellow one is the femoral nerve. Yeah, that's a dick in the picture, sorry.. But it's one of the best pics I could find to illustrate. That's a picture of your groin area; if you're a girl like me just ignore the man-genital part and imagine yours instead. As we see, the femoral vein is located DIRECTLY NEXT TO the femoral artery. That's what makes this a dangerous hit. But it can be done (ONLY in extreme circumstances, when you have no other option!) with careful care and technique.
Make sure you're using a needle that's at least 1/2" long. With a 1/2" long needle, you'll have to insert it the whole way in. Gauge isn't so important; hospitals use huge needles compared to the ones most of us might be using. Smaller gauges could be better simply because they leave a smaller puncture wound, such as 29g or 30g needles.
The femoral vein runs up through the middle of both your legs, connects through at the crease of your leg and groin, and then continues up on either side of your torso area until it merges into the other larger veins leading to the heart. (So, keep in mind that there are two of these veins, one on either side of your groin area.) While the veins run through the legs and torso as well, they only come near enough to the skin surface at the groin area to be easily injected into. Here's another picture to show you what I mean:
That's what the overall flow of the femoral vein looks like (the bold red vein running through the legs, groin, and sides); compare the two pictures and get familiar with where the veins and arteries are. Notice that the vein is located closest your groin area, then moving outward to the artery, and then the nerve.
Make sure you've cleaned the entire area well with alcohol pads.. just swipe all over the crook of your leg and groin (best to take off underwear when doing this) as you're not going to be exactly sure where the vein is yet. It's even better to wash the whole down-under area with soap and water first, dry, and then apply alcohol. Then spread your legs somewhat to expose the crook where your thigh and groin area connect, which will stretch the skin out so you can see clearly. You can do this by reclining slighly on a few pillows or something and separating your legs a little bit. Or, you can also support yourself upright on your knees, with your knees slightly widened so that the crook is exposed, and lean back on a wall or something else to keep your balance. (The drawback to that second position is that you have to bend your neck down a lot to see what you're doing, and that can be annoying.) Also, you might have hair in the area where the vein is.. trimming a little bit can help that.
Arteries have a pulse- they beat and push against your fingers if you try to feel one underneath the skin. So, roughly in the "middle" of the crook of your leg and groin, use one or two fingers and "feel around" for a pulse. Once you locate a pulse somewhere in that area (this can be on either side of your groin), you've found the femoral artery. Reference the two pictures and keep feeling around so that you get a sense of how big the artery is and just how it runs up from inside the middle of your leg up to your groin, and then up your side. The femoral vein runs parallel to the artery, like in first picture, on the side closest to your genitals. (So, if you're feeling on your left side, the vein is to the right of the artery; if feeling on the right side, the vein is to the left of the artery-- The first picture shows your left side only.)
Once you've gotten an idea of the artery, pay attention to how wide it is.. where you don't feel the pulse anymore is where the side of the artery stops. Keep your finger tips at the edge of where the artery stops, because the vein is right next to it. If we're looking at the left side, you've felt and found the pulse and can feel the large artery coming up from your leg. The vein is going to be just to the right of the artery, so keep the tips of your fingers pressed down to feel the pulse and feel the edge of the artery on the right-- the vein is in the space just to the right of your fingers!
Now comes the fun [ha] part. Using your syringe, inject at roughtly a 90 degree angle into the space right after the tips of your fingers. Use your non-dominant hand to keep the tips of your two fingers on the artery, feeling the pulse, during the whole procedure. Make sure you have your fingers right at the point where the artery stops! This way, you can be ABSOLUTELY SURE that when you push down, you're not going to hit that artery. Push the needle down gently and carefully; there is no need to jab it in there as some people seem to talk about doing. Also, going in slow will give you the ability to pull out quickly without doing much damage if you do happen to nick something you shouldn't have. Still feeling the edge of the artery the whole time and its pulse, push the needle all the way down (making sure you're NOT pushing down into an area where you feel any pulse!) and try to register (you'll have to register one-handed as you can't afford to take your other hand off the artery just yet.)
If you don't register, draw the needle back a little bit and push in again; you may have to push in deeper against the skin this time (AGAIN, you don't have to push hard or fast! Go slowly and gently.) Keep trying to register, if still no success, gently "fish around" by pulling back and pushing in to one side, and then the other (make sure you are going parallel to the artery; DON'T push the needle in towards the tips of your fingers where the artery/pulse is!) Using this method, you should be able to find the femoral vein. (Heat/baths may make the procedure easier, but you should be able to do this without that as long as you're not out in the snow [lol]). Once registered in the vein, you may start injecting as usual, either one-handed or you can take your other hand off the artery to help steady your needle as you do the shot. Keep in mind that the blood is flowing upwards towards your heart, even though you've got the syringe pushed in perpendicular at a weird 90 degree angle. You might be able to orient/tip the syringe a little bit to reflect the fact that you're shooting "upward" if this is easier for you, or you can inject straight in at 90 degrees.
When done, pull out, apply pressure with a tissue to stop any bleeding, commense usual rinsing or disposing routine.. It's also a good idea to clean the site off with soap or alcohol after you're done as well, since sweat tends to build up in the groin area and can cause infections in an open injection wound.
You'll know if you hit an artery if you feel an "electric burn" sensation along your leg when pushing down. If you register in an artery, the blood will look bright red and frothy, and the pressure in the artery might even push the needle out. Go slowly, and you'll notice a slight stinging sensation if the tip of your needle is nearing an artery. If that happens, pull back and try to aim away from the artery. If you've hit the artery (it will hurt like HELL and you'll know; it will probably bleed a lot too), pull out immediately and apply firm pressure to the area to stop the bleeding. I've hit arteries before by accident (though not in that area), and if you keep firm pressure and stop the bleeding, all will probably turn out fine. Keep pressure on the area for 10 minutes, and lie down with your legs put up on something so that the groin area is slightly elevated above the heart. If the bleeding doesn't stop after 10 minutes, get help- call 911 or have someone bring you to a hospital.
Overall, be safe, be smart, and only attempt to use the femoral vein as a last resort! Make sure to not hit it repeatedly; it's one of the most important veins in your body and can't afford damage.. Remember that both sides can be used, and check all your other areas first before going for your femoral.
Happy and safe injecting, friends!
Please, if you decide to use this method, consider other options first. There are plenty of other safer areas that you can inject into before this becomes necessary. Try your hands, your feet, forearms, bicep, or ankles. Those are all safer and easier to hit veins than the femoral vein is. - sixpartseven]
[Disclaimer: Before all the suppsed "harm reduction" folks out there jump on me without reading the post and start flaming me for explaining how to inject into the femoral vein, I'll say it first: I'm NOT recommending or endorsing the use of the femoral vein for injection. It is a dangerous place to inject and should only be used as a last resort! Try all your other options before attempting femoral injection! I'll explain some safer options in this thread as well.]
And first off, here's yet another link to the well known, must read "general" guide to injection, Getting Off Right:http://www.harmreduction.org/downloads/idu_manual.pdf
Well, after doing many of my own searches on how to hit that well-known but little talked about "femoral vein," also known as "that fat vein in your groin area," I finally figured it out after some tedious research. Since I've only found threads here on BL asking how to hit that vein (and read the very unhelpful responses telling the inquirer that they're a moron for even thinking of doing such a thing), I decided to create a basic guide for femoral injection for any other curious injecting BLers to read.
Firstly, if you think all your other injection spots are dry, think again! You've probably exhausted your arms and hands, maybe you're sick of missing in your thigh, you keep getting bruises on your calves, and your feet and ankles are painful as hell and you can't even keep yourself steady so as to not miss your shots there.. Well then, before the femoral, here are a few others:
-Your torso! (on either side of your stomach, around your waistline, there are large vertical-running veins usually visible beneath the skin.)
-On the Hand:
--Webbing of the hands and in between your fingers (in between your fingers is sort of guessing as you might not see anything clearly there. Try directly in between your ring and middle finger on either hand and you might find something-I did!)
--Top of the hand and the outside of the hand (on your pinky finger side, running vertically, are veins you usually don't see when looking at the top of the hand for a vein; you have to twist your arm to see them. And look again carefully over the top of your hand and along the outside of the thumb.)
--Fingers (veins run over your knuckles which are usually popping out of the skin and pretty visible. These run into your upper fingers where they are easier/less painful to hit.)
--Inside of the wrist (these are actually safe to hit- my doctor once tried to draw blood from me in those spidery-looking blue things, and actually told me they were safe veins to inject into as well.)
--Some people have tried their palm, but this is increasingly painful and I don't really recommend it. Also, palm of hand = lots of bacteria. Also bad bruising.
-Top of the foot, the tops of your toes, big toe in particular, in between your toes (I've heard many people say in between toes works, though I personally never tried it.)
-Around the top of the knee and inside of the knee (have to twist your leg around to see the veins on the inside.)
-Chest (not recommended for women as a miss could harm your breasts and such, but the veins are still usable if you are careful.)
-Again, thighs (twist your thigh over and make sure to look at the outside for veins also), calves, and ankles can all be used, make sure you look them over and try the other suggestions above before going for your femoral. The ultimate last resort vein is probably the internal or external jugular vein, which I have seen people hit, but it is extremely dangerous as the internal jugular is located right next to the carotid artery. Puncturing the carotid artery can be very life-threatening! (Stupid nurses in hospitals have nearly killed people by jabbing the carotid when they were aiming for the jugular, and if they can't hit it, we shouldn't assume that "amateurs" like ourselves could!)
Also, if you take a look at these places mentioned and still can't see anything, try the hot bath trick. Run a nice, steamy hot bath and sit in it with the bathroom door closed as if you want to make the place a sauna, wait for 5 minutes and check again if any veins have popped into view (I do this frequently, it REALLY makes a difference). Also drink lots of water (drinks like gatorade or poweraid might also help), try doing pushups, jumping jacks, jogging around the block, running up and down stairs, lifting light weights, or basically any type of exercise that will get that heart pumping, subsequently filling those veins up with blood so you can see 'em! Also keep in mind that smoking tends to constrict veins! Have your cigarrette after you hit, not before. Heat in general can often bring up veins even better than a tie. Turn up the heaters, try to find somewhere inside to use, and avoid being anywhere cold- the cold also constricts veins.
But, as shit always happens, sometimes you can't be inside, or you can't run that hot bath.. or, maybe you can do those things and you're frustrated because you still can't see any good veins. Then we can think about potentially using the femoral vein. If you use it, do not get into the habit of it! The femoral is an imporant vein for hospital nurses in case you have an accident and they can't find any veins on your arm to insert an IV to give you blood or medications. (And you really don't want those idiots fucking around trying to get your internal jugular or subclavian vein. It's way worse to hit the carotid artery than the femoral artery.)
So, after we've exhausted all the other options, here's how we find the femoral vein.
Now, in the picture above, the BLUE thing is the femoral vein. The RED one is the femoral artery. And the yellow one is the femoral nerve. Yeah, that's a dick in the picture, sorry.. But it's one of the best pics I could find to illustrate. That's a picture of your groin area; if you're a girl like me just ignore the man-genital part and imagine yours instead. As we see, the femoral vein is located DIRECTLY NEXT TO the femoral artery. That's what makes this a dangerous hit. But it can be done (ONLY in extreme circumstances, when you have no other option!) with careful care and technique.
Make sure you're using a needle that's at least 1/2" long. With a 1/2" long needle, you'll have to insert it the whole way in. Gauge isn't so important; hospitals use huge needles compared to the ones most of us might be using. Smaller gauges could be better simply because they leave a smaller puncture wound, such as 29g or 30g needles.
The femoral vein runs up through the middle of both your legs, connects through at the crease of your leg and groin, and then continues up on either side of your torso area until it merges into the other larger veins leading to the heart. (So, keep in mind that there are two of these veins, one on either side of your groin area.) While the veins run through the legs and torso as well, they only come near enough to the skin surface at the groin area to be easily injected into. Here's another picture to show you what I mean:
That's what the overall flow of the femoral vein looks like (the bold red vein running through the legs, groin, and sides); compare the two pictures and get familiar with where the veins and arteries are. Notice that the vein is located closest your groin area, then moving outward to the artery, and then the nerve.
Make sure you've cleaned the entire area well with alcohol pads.. just swipe all over the crook of your leg and groin (best to take off underwear when doing this) as you're not going to be exactly sure where the vein is yet. It's even better to wash the whole down-under area with soap and water first, dry, and then apply alcohol. Then spread your legs somewhat to expose the crook where your thigh and groin area connect, which will stretch the skin out so you can see clearly. You can do this by reclining slighly on a few pillows or something and separating your legs a little bit. Or, you can also support yourself upright on your knees, with your knees slightly widened so that the crook is exposed, and lean back on a wall or something else to keep your balance. (The drawback to that second position is that you have to bend your neck down a lot to see what you're doing, and that can be annoying.) Also, you might have hair in the area where the vein is.. trimming a little bit can help that.
Arteries have a pulse- they beat and push against your fingers if you try to feel one underneath the skin. So, roughly in the "middle" of the crook of your leg and groin, use one or two fingers and "feel around" for a pulse. Once you locate a pulse somewhere in that area (this can be on either side of your groin), you've found the femoral artery. Reference the two pictures and keep feeling around so that you get a sense of how big the artery is and just how it runs up from inside the middle of your leg up to your groin, and then up your side. The femoral vein runs parallel to the artery, like in first picture, on the side closest to your genitals. (So, if you're feeling on your left side, the vein is to the right of the artery; if feeling on the right side, the vein is to the left of the artery-- The first picture shows your left side only.)
Once you've gotten an idea of the artery, pay attention to how wide it is.. where you don't feel the pulse anymore is where the side of the artery stops. Keep your finger tips at the edge of where the artery stops, because the vein is right next to it. If we're looking at the left side, you've felt and found the pulse and can feel the large artery coming up from your leg. The vein is going to be just to the right of the artery, so keep the tips of your fingers pressed down to feel the pulse and feel the edge of the artery on the right-- the vein is in the space just to the right of your fingers!
Now comes the fun [ha] part. Using your syringe, inject at roughtly a 90 degree angle into the space right after the tips of your fingers. Use your non-dominant hand to keep the tips of your two fingers on the artery, feeling the pulse, during the whole procedure. Make sure you have your fingers right at the point where the artery stops! This way, you can be ABSOLUTELY SURE that when you push down, you're not going to hit that artery. Push the needle down gently and carefully; there is no need to jab it in there as some people seem to talk about doing. Also, going in slow will give you the ability to pull out quickly without doing much damage if you do happen to nick something you shouldn't have. Still feeling the edge of the artery the whole time and its pulse, push the needle all the way down (making sure you're NOT pushing down into an area where you feel any pulse!) and try to register (you'll have to register one-handed as you can't afford to take your other hand off the artery just yet.)
If you don't register, draw the needle back a little bit and push in again; you may have to push in deeper against the skin this time (AGAIN, you don't have to push hard or fast! Go slowly and gently.) Keep trying to register, if still no success, gently "fish around" by pulling back and pushing in to one side, and then the other (make sure you are going parallel to the artery; DON'T push the needle in towards the tips of your fingers where the artery/pulse is!) Using this method, you should be able to find the femoral vein. (Heat/baths may make the procedure easier, but you should be able to do this without that as long as you're not out in the snow [lol]). Once registered in the vein, you may start injecting as usual, either one-handed or you can take your other hand off the artery to help steady your needle as you do the shot. Keep in mind that the blood is flowing upwards towards your heart, even though you've got the syringe pushed in perpendicular at a weird 90 degree angle. You might be able to orient/tip the syringe a little bit to reflect the fact that you're shooting "upward" if this is easier for you, or you can inject straight in at 90 degrees.
When done, pull out, apply pressure with a tissue to stop any bleeding, commense usual rinsing or disposing routine.. It's also a good idea to clean the site off with soap or alcohol after you're done as well, since sweat tends to build up in the groin area and can cause infections in an open injection wound.
You'll know if you hit an artery if you feel an "electric burn" sensation along your leg when pushing down. If you register in an artery, the blood will look bright red and frothy, and the pressure in the artery might even push the needle out. Go slowly, and you'll notice a slight stinging sensation if the tip of your needle is nearing an artery. If that happens, pull back and try to aim away from the artery. If you've hit the artery (it will hurt like HELL and you'll know; it will probably bleed a lot too), pull out immediately and apply firm pressure to the area to stop the bleeding. I've hit arteries before by accident (though not in that area), and if you keep firm pressure and stop the bleeding, all will probably turn out fine. Keep pressure on the area for 10 minutes, and lie down with your legs put up on something so that the groin area is slightly elevated above the heart. If the bleeding doesn't stop after 10 minutes, get help- call 911 or have someone bring you to a hospital.
Overall, be safe, be smart, and only attempt to use the femoral vein as a last resort! Make sure to not hit it repeatedly; it's one of the most important veins in your body and can't afford damage.. Remember that both sides can be used, and check all your other areas first before going for your femoral.
Happy and safe injecting, friends!
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