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A drug similar to an opiate but without being an opiate?

I think the active in Kratom and Tianeptine (or active metabolite - nobody seems sure) ARE opioids. The term atypical is often applied, but nonetheless They seem to produce tolerance and dependence, but admittedly, less so than stronger opioids.
 
I figured he meant something that wasn't a pharmaceutical opiate. In that logic poppy seeds aren't opiates I suppose, but they can be dangerous. Kratom is just very safe.

The only other thing I could think of would maybe be Gabapentin or something, I took 900mg years back, I'm prescribed it now having gone up from 600, but probably will switch back (was a test to see if it'd help tinnitus issues).

Effects like this are long gone, but it almost felt opioid like, I was borderline nodding on 900mg. They call this a chameleon drug, since it can produce a wide array of effects. It's mostly like a stimulant to me now, but is mildly sedating. Tolerance builds very fast with that stuff, so you won't be able to feel good unless you do it once or twice a week maybe. It's relatively safe but people can take really overboard doses, even prescribed.

Kratom is safer than this in the long run, it's really the only opioid type drug that's actually safe to use. Eating can kill the high, THC overpowers it and kicks its ass every time (I never use them together anyway) or even taking more because it has opioid-antagonism effects. Taken with opiates, the opiates won't do anything. Maybe H or fent because those are just so strong and have been in toxicology reports alongside cocktails of drugs and picked out kratom as if it was a significant factor.
 
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mdaniel80 said:
right, ketamine agonizes the MOR
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Dextromethorphan is a (low potency) opioid, its metabolite dextrorphan actually an antagonist at the MOR site and ketamine is very likely just an insignificant MOR agonist. MXE wasn't an opioid but metabolized partially into 3-HO-PCE which was one.

Afaik do dissociatives emulate opioids by indirect mechanisms and not really over MOR. Possibly also by releasing endorphins, these NMDA antagonists increase the output of so many brain chemicals. Otherwise it wouldn't work to withdraw from opioids using dissociatives if they would be straight MOR agonists.
 
VerbalTruist said:
It still feels pretty fucking good, Jack.
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plumbus-nine said:
Dextromethorphan is a (low potency) opioid, its metabolite dextrorphan actually an antagonist at the MOR site and ketamine is very likely just an insignificant MOR agonist. MXE wasn't an opioid but metabolized partially into 3-HO-PCE which was one.

Afaik do dissociatives emulate opioids by indirect mechanisms and not really over MOR. Possibly also by releasing endorphins, these NMDA antagonists increase the output of so many brain chemicals. Otherwise it wouldn't work to withdraw from opioids using dissociatives if they would be straight MOR agonists.
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Well… https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7347432/
 
Kratom is really the only example I can think of
 
I find it interesting that while there are many sites saying kratom is addictive, their are only rare reports of dependence.

I notice that it seems that the most common alkaloid, mitragynine does have some MOR affinity, but it appears that it's most important function is as a prodrug. That doesn't preclude dependence but it does mean onset is slower and that their will be a plateau at which increasing the dose will not increase the effect.

Both of those factors will limit any physical dependence. Codeine is a prodrug and while it's perfectly possible for physical dependence to develop, it cannot reach more than about 20mg of morphine/day (the amount the average person will convert). Nasty if you suddenly run out, but reasonable to stop over 14-21 days.
 
Fertile said:
I find it interesting that while there are many sites saying kratom is addictive, their are only rare reports of dependence.

I notice that it seems that the most common alkaloid, mitragynine does have some MOR affinity, but it appears that it's most important function is as a prodrug. That doesn't preclude dependence but it does mean onset is slower and that their will be a plateau at which increasing the dose will not increase the effect.

Both of those factors will limit any physical dependence. Codeine is a prodrug and while it's perfectly possible for physical dependence to develop, it cannot reach more than about 20mg of morphine/day (the amount the average person will convert). Nasty if you suddenly run out, but reasonable to stop over 14-21 days.
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Here is some good reading material on exactly what your talking about. May be rudimentary for us but not for other non-chemist who have a little kmowldge
 
Delmonte421 said:
Here is some good reading material on exactly what your talking about. May be rudimentary for us but not for other non-chemist who have a little kmowldge
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It depend's on someone's definition of "addictive". While no one is fiending for some kratom and stealing from Grandma to buy more, thousands of anecdotes of WD symptoms when cold turkey quitting. I def wouldnt compare kratom WD to hard opiates however I took a naltrexone with 4 months chronic kratom use in me and I ended up in the ER with precipitated WD. @Fertile While the MOR affinity may be partial, it was significant enough to feel like morphine WD (which I have been through). Again to be fair, that was brought on by the injestion of an opioid blocker. I quit kratom a couple weeks ago and it couldnt hold a lick to opiate WD,
 
mdaniel80 said:
It depend's on someone's definition of "addictive". While no one is fiending for some kratom and stealing from Grandma to buy more, thousands of anecdotes of WD symptoms when cold turkey quitting. I def wouldnt compare kratom WD to hard opiates however I took a naltrexone with 4 months chronic kratom use in me and I ended up in the ER with precipitated WD. @Fertile While the MOR affinity may be partial, it was significant enough to feel like morphine WD (which I have been through). Again to be fair, that was brought on by the injestion of an opioid blocker. I quit kratom a couple weeks ago and it couldnt hold a lick to opiate WD,
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I've made this mistake too and when I get PW I go to the ER too as it gets to be way too much and in too much physical and mental pain.
 
Delmonte421 said:
I've made this mistake too and when I get PW I go to the ER too as it gets to be way too much and in too much physical and mental pain.
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If I knew what was happening at the time theres no way I would have gone to the ER. This was a few years ago and I didnt even know what "opioid"or "precipitated" meant. Had no clue what naltrexone was and definitely believed the "kratom is not an opioid" lie. All they did was drug test me, give ma a clonazapam and send me home. They didnt know what kratom was but since I tested clean for any drugs, they figured kratom had some major opioid affinity. They were right
 
Burnt Offerings said:
I think it's interesting that people find dissociatives like DXM to be opioid-like. That's never been my personal experience...
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I'm with you there. They don't have that release of all.your stress melting away.

I even found the most sedating dissociatives (ketamine for example).to be somewhat anxiogenic.

There is no answer for OP. A lot of the drugs ppl are listing (kratom, tiantiapine) are opioid receptor agonists and will cause a withdrawl on par with opioids.
 
LucidSDreamr said:
I'm with you there. They don't have that release of all.your stress melting away.

I even found the most sedating dissociatives (ketamine for example).to be somewhat anxiogenic.

There is no answer for OP. A lot of the drugs ppl are listing (kratom, tiantiapine) are opioid receptor agonists and will cause a withdrawl on par with opioids.
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quit kratom 2 weeks ago after 2 years daily. While im in a bad way as far as mood and motivation this aint shit compared to opiates. If lifestyle choice comes down to opiate or partial opioid agonist, take the kratom.
 
mdaniel80 said:
quit kratom 2 weeks ago after 2 years daily. While im in a bad way as far as mood and motivation this aint shit compared to opiates. If lifestyle choice comes down to opiate or partial opioid agonist, take the kratom.
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I didn't know it was a partial agonist. That makes it much safer.
 
To the original poster(would this be OP?) I have a question regarding black seed oil..

I just purchased some that I ran into its 2% of the main ingredient that we want.
It is also in powder form in veg. capsules...is this going to be a problem? I want to try to potentiate but eventually I want to give it a run for its money when I am in withdrawal.

I just really hope it will not only potentiate, lower tolerance, most of all aid in OPIE WD, but also have positive NOTICEABLE effects when taken alone?
 
^^ 2 veggie softgel (2,000 mg) up to 2% of Thymoquinone.


So try 2 maybe 4 and see if I feel chipper with more pep in my step?
 
lolis my thesis said:
Kratom works better for me than hydrocodone; but I am on 40mg/day methadone; kratom somehow works better than vicodin
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Hey, do you find kratom works just as well despite being on methadone? I've heard mixed reports.
 
ItsclearlyFake said:
I'm looking to something that resembles opiate effects but its not really an opiate (to avoid tolerance building and rotating drugs to avoid dependence).

For example so far I've discovered Pregabalin. That would be a good example of a "downer" that is similar to opiates. Of course its not an opiate but I mean is more closer to them than is Meth you know ?

Avoid benzos because I really dislike the effect. Also phenibut neither since it wrecks my stomach can't take it anymore (but would be a good example).
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Phenibut and f-phenibut are highly acidic, but if you mix a small amount of bicarbonate of soda in the water/phenibut solution (usually less than 100mg but depends on how much you're taking) it'll mitigate the problem brilliantly.
Also beware of the withdrawal from pregabalin, it's horrible, worse than benzos, though not as dangerous iirc.
 
Oh and also ghb or GBL, gabapentin, kratom, ketamine (low doses), carisoprodol and kava off the top of my head all are "nice downers".
 
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