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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

⫸STICKY⫷ A Complete Idiot's Guide to Volumetric Dosing

Hey man @Keif' Richards just wanted to say thanks for writing this up!

I had created a thread or asked about it myself when I first started doing it a few years ago. I guess I couldn't fathom that the process could be that simple, but it's basically a breeze if you have the right tools for the job.

And it's a very useful thing for harm reduction for drug users.

Thanks man!
 
The only thing I can think to add is that depending on what drug you are considering and how that drug was supplied, it's important to realize that some drugs are themselves not sterile.

In the UK a while ago there was a cluster of injecting H users who all developed an unusual infection at the site of injection. Later a sample of the offending dope was tested and was shown to contain the bacteria.

It's worth remembering that on average, the H on UK streets is over six years old. I understand that the best guess in this case was that the H had been buried and had not been properly sealed with the result that a soil bacteria had made it's way into the product.

I do appreciate that this is a niche case but I feel it's worth remembering that a loose pill isn't stetile so in theory, other classes of drug could potentially act as a carrier for a vector.
 
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Thanks @deficiT as a teacher, hearing you've explained something concisely is what it's all about. We all know different things, have different talents etc. I know more about recreational drugs than most medical doctors I have ever spoken to, including those at Methadone clinics (there is a poster at our clinic currently discussing how Xylazine, as an Opioid, contributes to overdose potential, it's not. This is not eldritch knowledge. It's on fucking Wikipedia in the first paragraph). Does that mean I can treat heart problems? Can I deliver a breach baby? Do I know which antibiotic is best for treating tuberculosis? No. I know about recreational drugs.

My knowledge is not all my own. I, in fact, learned it from others who taught me. I wish I could claim I was innately that great. We are a community and we all need to dig deep to figure out what our respective talents are. You never know when some "totally obvious" question can be answered by none other than yourself. It might turn out it wasn't really that obvious.

Volumetric dosing is a great example. You can look at all the parts in an abstract, science project way, or you can just explain it bluntly and the mystery and apprehension disappear. I hope this has helped people. It's invaluable knowledge for anyone on here.
 
@Keif' Richards - Sorry if this is a stupid question but when people refer to volumetric dosing, are they referring to a solution of the active(s)? I only ask because long, long ago I had to take a module on formulation (of medicines) and it refers to the dilution of solids. V-mixers, double cone mixers and so on. But I note on some HR sites it seems to be understood as referring to solutions.

So forgive my confusion.

Messaging in HR is, in my experience, quite challanging. I know when Lifeline first learnt that Subutex (buprenorphine) was a big problem in UK prisons (MDTs of the era wouldn't detect it) and we had to design one booklet for prisoners and another for prison staff. We also had to do that for some other things, but that's the one I remember being the hardest to do - possibly because it was the fist time we had to go down two paths.

BTW here in the UK it appears that xylazine has turned up in post mortem data and in a range of illicit drugs from THC to tramadol to benzodiazepines to opioids. It's just so cheap. $20-$60/Kg is mentioned in several papers. Since it's not a human medicine I can't use my usual site to provide international bulk prices of the stuff.
 
Hey @4DQSAR :)

My understanding regarding the Xylazine is that one thing led to another and we ended up with a shit ton of it waiting to be used. I believe there is a difference between a cow that may live for a decade can handle such a medication. When you live for up to 100 years, these issues are much less tolerable. We are just keeping these animals alive and breathing long enough for them to grow, be slaughtered and eaten. Xylazine by all accounts seems to be an extremely harmful substance regardless of species.

It's pretty fucking sad when it becomes commonplace to see amputees walking around downtown. How do you have faith in your fellow man? I still do,but I see how people lose it. We treat the poor, the mentally ill and the addicted as if they're cattle or worse.

Diatribe over.

Volumetric dosing in simple terms means using a specific VOLUME of vehicle. Vehicle is smart-talk for what the active substance is contained in, for our purposes, this is almost always just water, H20. There are of course certain medications that cannot dissolve in water. They may dissolve in say, Alcohol. Benzodiazepines notoriously cannot be injected easily for this reason.

Brief Sidebar: Even a non-soluble substance like a Benzodiazepine can be dosed volumetrically. You simply can't inject it. You shake up your solution really well before usage every time and you'll have more or less a homogenous solution for a few seconds.

I think we say "Volumetric" because we are using a certain volume as a point of reference. Does that make sense?
 
@Keif' Richards - as you say vehicle and that being the solvent. I am aware of the solvent normally used in injectable formulations of benzodiazepines (it's not a secret) but I'm old enough to remember the original 30mg temazepam 'soft gel' capsules and what harm they caused. I've even known people do the same with duck eggs (Heminevrin 192mg capsules) but as one user remarked 'you have to be quick - it melts plastic'.

I can be grim but I don't give in to cynicism. If someone needs help and I can help, I do. On occassion others have helped me. As my wife terms it 'pay it forward'.
 
Empathy man. We all need to empathize with our fellow man and be grateful.

Our mom's taught us, "bullies only say those mean things because they hurt inside".

Well, people sometimes prefer to use the shortcomings of others as a ballast against their own conscious or subconscious deficiencies.

If I have a mansion, it's easy to look down on the guy in the apartment. When you drive a BMW it feels good to laugh at the poor people. And in the end, everyone and anyone can shit on addicts. At least we're not junkies right?

Pathetic when you wonder how many of those folks are on high dose Benzos, Amphetamines etc. from their doc. Anyone can look down on junkies and it is a measure of your humanity when you interact with these people as if they are your equals, because they are. Nobody is worth any less than another.

Ive gotten news for the world. We are apes. We are a social species. We have succeeded only when we have come together. This business of judgement leaves one ultimately isolated. These people need love.

Can you imagine being told to get out of a store simply because you look homeless? Well, ive seen it. So fucked by the world that not even a shop will sell you coffee lest you steal their furniture.

Be kind guys. Love one another. Hatred and alienation is what had put us in this place.
 
I just wanted to say that there are lots of drugs not soluble in water, like benzos, and there are several ways to get it to dissolve. This is a pharma valium nasal spray:
Valium (diazepam) nasal spray, like the brand VALTOCO, uses special ingredients like Vitamin E to increase its solubility and Intravail® (dodecyl maltoside, DDM) as an absorption enhancer, allowing it to dissolve and be rapidly absorbed in a small liquid volume for seizure rescue, unlike plain diazepam which is poorly water-soluble.
Click to expand...

PG, the same stuff they use in e-cigs, can dissolve benzos, and I think you can still use mostly water and just put enough PG in it to make the benzo dissolve. So instead of using 100mL PG or whatever you could prob get away with 10mL PG, mixed with 90mL water. But I am not 100% sure on that.
 
Maybe I can add a bit for ppl volumetric dosing more sensitive things like benzos -- pysch's even.

You are going to need TWO mg scales -- they can be found for like 70 bucks, keep the batteries fresh!! A zig zag wax paper should weigh 40 or 41 mg's -- that 40 mgs already on the scale will help make your 10-20 mgs of powder register correctly whereas without it ---- bit more of a toss up. In addition powder should slide smoothly off of the zig zag into whatever container you plan to fill with liquid.

So put your zig zag on there -- it will be 40 or 41 mgs -- add your powder, say 20mgs, now you will have 60mgs on scale one. Turn scale one off and scale two on and make sure you still have 60 mgs on scale two. NOW YOU KNOW YOU GOT IT PRETTY WELL DIALED IN.

Personally I used 153 instead of PG as ingesting large amounts of PG is iffy --- try and use even numbers. 60ml of liquid, 30 or 60 mgs of substance.

You will probably lose between 5-20 mgs of w/e every bottle you make so keep that in mind --- as well as the shelf life. It is indeed a balance.

Thats all I got for now
 
How about if you only know a percentage value of a substance’s potency. Eg. I have substance A with a 90% potency. Pretty sure this is enough info for a similar process, an important thing to note will be your units…in this example ?%v/w
 
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I guess ROA may matter to some but while benzodiazepines aren't particularly soluble, I have yet to find an example in which a gram would not dissolve (slowly) into dH2O. Moderately acidic water increases solubility but don't play with such things if plain dH2O works. 1mg/mL.

Even LSD tartrate solution retains activity for months if stored appropriately.
 
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