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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

71 dead found in a truck abandoned in Austria

Boo fucking hoo. As I recall you are currently enjoying an education at University, one which is no doubt Government subsidised to some extent. I don't think you are in any real danger of starving or being shot. You already got a start in life. The people fleeing conflict which has been caused in part by your states irresponsible foreign policy don't know where their next meal is coming from and are essentially stateless.

Yes, I am. And I'm up to my eyeballs in debt for making that choice, as are many young people. My parents generation on the other hand, got given money to attend. I chose to get an education in the subject I took because I want to better this country, and others, through my line of work.

Don't feed me this bullshit about starving or being shot. None of these people trudging though the EU were in immediate danger. In fact they have gone out of their way to place themselves and their children in greater danger, through attempting to cross the sea, crossing land (some landmine infested) they know little about, and so forth. Life would not have been rosy in Turkey or elsewhere, but they were alive.

Yep, that is what this whole debate is about. It isn't about helping hundreds of thousands of people fleeing death and persecution, it is about making people of a particular political persuasion feel better. 8)

Of course it is. What percentage of those people will take on a family or persons, in their home? No, they want the government and other people to actually do the hard work, whilst they feel smug and content that "I've done me bit". Middle class metropolitan morons who don't actually have to live with or see the consequences of their actions.. because none of these refugees will end up in their neighbourhoods or communities.

I will not respond to any more of your posts; I have given you enough dialogue and it is taking over the thread.
 
Don't feed me this bullshit about starving or being shot. None of these people trudging though the EU were in immediate danger. In fact they have gone out of their way to place themselves and their children in greater danger, through attempting to cross the sea, crossing land (some landmine infested) they know little about, and so forth. Life would not have been rosy in Turkey or elsewhere, but they were alive.


....

I will not respond to any more of your posts; I have given you enough dialogue and it is taking over the thread.
Big claim. An outright lie, to be frank. I guess that's why you're leaving the conversation in a huff. That's too bad.
 
Big claim. An outright lie, to be frank. I guess that's why you're leaving the conversation in a huff. That's too bad.

I'm staying, I'm just done conversing with drug_mentor. And it's not an outright lie, the majority are young men and not children/women as the media continually tries to insinuate through its selective use of photography and media coverage. They are clothed, some of them well clothed, have resources (including money), have actually turned down aid in some instances, tried to force their way through border crossings, and on, and on..

Those who are in the camps and waiting patiently to be processed and allocated to countries have my support. The UN needs be doing a fuck tonne more than it is in the countries that border Syria, but as always it falls way short.. much easier to condemn Hungary for daring to protect its borders.

As much as I loathe Cameron he is quite correct in his approach; taking refugees who are most in need from the camps already in place. The system is in place, it is the only proper way to do it. The boats must be stopped and this nonsense that anyone can just shove their way through to the front of the queue/across the EU continent. Also, Merkel should be ejected from her German political party.. through her idiotic comments and EU ass kissing she has placed the EU under great threat. Now everyone who is in a bit of trouble thinks they can just barge through to the EU and some holy grail of economic opportunity. What a stupid bint she is.
 
Funny, my friends in Germany say the complete opposite of what you're saying.
The German response to this tragedy puts your country - and my country to shame. It's a fucking disgrace to turn your back on human suffering on this scale.

But thank you for giving me some insight into the kind of mentality that guides this sentiment, solipsistic as it is.
 
Funny, my friends in Germany say the complete opposite of what you're saying.
The German response to this tragedy puts your country - and my country to shame. It's a fucking disgrace to turn your back on human suffering on this scale.

But thank you for giving me some insight into the kind of mentality that guides this sentiment, solipsistic as it is.

I'd bookmark your post and come back to it in 20 years time, see if you still feel the same way. I very much doubt you or any of your friends will.

EDIT: And what about the suffering in Greece? Germany was quite happy to give the middle finger to the Greeks, and now overnight they all of a sudden develop compassion? Bullshit. They will cherry pick the labour they want from this pool of migrants and then shaft the rest of the EU by telling them to accept the ones they don't want.

Suffering happens everywhere. Get over it. Mental illness and suicide among the young in this country is increasing year after year.. where is your bleeding heart for them huh? Schools over crowded, teachers under pressure, parents struggling to keep afloat, nowhere for kids to play because of rampant urbanization and insane car/vehicle density. And again you're telling me we should let even more people into this country when we do such a swell job of things right now? They may not be facing persecution or have bombs going off around them but emotional suffering and neglect is just as potent to a child as bombs falling.

Unfortunately the children of this country don't get a media campaign highlighting their suffering. No selective use of photos showing weeping children. They suffer in silence. None of these narcissistic trendy cunts holding "refugee welcome" give a damn about the future of the children from disadvantaged families in this country. Out of sight, out of mind.

No. For these smug do-gooders it is all about them and their egos, not about their hearts. You can't fool me on this one, I've seen and been around these types of people my whole life. I know what they are really like.
 
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I'm staying, I'm just done conversing with drug_mentor. And it's not an outright lie, the majority are young men and not children/women as the media continually tries to insinuate through its selective use of photography and media coverage. They are clothed, some of them well clothed, have resources (including money), have actually turned down aid in some instances, tried to force their way through border crossings, and on, and on..

Those who are in the camps and waiting patiently to be processed and allocated to countries have my support. The UN needs be doing a fuck tonne more than it is in the countries that border Syria, but as always it falls way short.. much easier to condemn Hungary for daring to protect its borders.

As much as I loathe Cameron he is quite correct in his approach; taking refugees who are most in need from the camps already in place. The system is in place, it is the only proper way to do it. The boats must be stopped and this nonsense that anyone can just shove their way through to the front of the queue/across the EU continent. Also, Merkel should be ejected from her German political party.. through her idiotic comments and EU ass kissing she has placed the EU under great threat. Now everyone who is in a bit of trouble thinks they can just barge through to the EU and some holy grail of economic opportunity. What a stupid bint she is.

Sorry to jump in like that. But the way you talk about these issues makes it sound like it's a very simple and easy issue to deal with. And it also seems like you are working with them side by side everyday to know that much and in details.
You talk about media but you are getting your info from them. Have you interviewed these persons? Have you worked with them?

I really don't think things are quite like that. When you face horror and live with fear of being killed or in threat all the time you chose to live. That's what humans do. It's how people instinctively act when they are in danger. And you don't think about the dangers of moving away. I work with some of these international issues and know that this is not like that.

Same would be telling to an addict that he/she knew the problems they would have to face in the future so why the hell did they do it. It's not that simple.

This entire process may be hard to take in and it's comfortable to criticize. I believe most of these immigrants have had their reasons. Most people would not want to beg for being in a camp if no real reason was behind this.

Of course there are exceptions but life for these 'miserable' people are not easy at all. I don't think some of us can even imagine what they have gone through.

People in camps don't wait patiently while being allocated. That's not even true. Have you been in one of these camps?
I don't know what you have been reading but this is not a fairy tale and things are not so simple.

I understand the feeling of not wanting to feed more people than countries possibly can but I view this as a human tragedy and unfortunately a leader of a country may have to respond fast but not always according to our wishes. They make a lot of mistakes but their idea was not the worst. And they risk their popularity knowing that this would not please most of their population.
 
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It's a tricky situation. I see both sides of the issue. Taking in these refugees is definitely a burden on individual societies. At the same time, those fleeing their countries are facing extreme difficulties and must be accounted for. The problem isn't going away and so something needs to be done. Assimilating large numbers of refugees is problematic and potentially destabilizing for those stable countries receiving them. I think a multi-pronged approach is needed for problems such as these, with stable countries letting in some numbers of refugees (a reasonable estimate of what they can reasonably process), with some effort put into resolving the conflicts at their source as well.

This.

71 innocent (yes, innocent - seeking asylum is not a crime) people die and people post shit like this

Truly sickening.

And this.
 
Sorry to jump in like that. But the way you talk about these issues makes it sound like it's a very simple and easy issue to deal with. And it also seems like you are working with them side by side everyday to know that much and in details.
You talk about media but you are getting your info from them. Have you interviewed these persons? Have you worked with them?

I really don't think things are quite like that. When you face horror and live with fear of being killed or in threat all the time you chose to live. That's what humans do. It's how people instinctively act when they are in danger. And you don't think about the dangers of moving away. I work with some of these international issues and know that this is not like that.

Same would be telling to an addict that he/she knew the problems they would have to face in the future so why the hell did they do it. It's not that simple.

This entire process may be hard to take in and it's comfortable to criticize. I believe most of these immigrants have had their reasons. Most people would not want to beg for being in a camp if no real reason was behind this.

Of course there are exceptions but life for these 'miserable' people are not easy at all. I don't think some of us can even imagine what they have gone through.

People in camps don't wait patiently while being allocated. That's not even true. Have you been in one of these camps?
I don't know what you have been reading but this is not a fairy tale and things are not so simple.

I understand the feeling of not wanting to feed more people than countries possibly can but I view this as a human tragedy and unfortunately a leader of a country may have to respond fast but not always according to our wishes. They make a lot of mistakes but their idea was not the worst. And they risk their popularity knowing that this would not please most of their population.

I don't begrudge migrants for wanting to seek better opportunities.. but no one should begrudge me or people of our nations who do not want more people here. If it comes down to the choice between our peoples, I will choose my own people over there's. I do however passionately despise our politicians and EU leaders who insist that allowing ever greater numbers of people to move to our nations is good for us, economically or culturally. That is just plain bullshit marketing spin and I do not accept it; I hope to see them strung up in my lifetime for their treasonous ideology.

I resent being told by anyone I have no compassion, being a racist, Islamophobic or whatever particular label they find justified, as I'm sure many other sane reasonable people do too. I don't claim to know the hardships involved, but then neither do the bleeding heart people either. The real issue here is we are being rushed into making decision based on emotional/borderline hysterical thinking without using logical and pragmatic thinking.. and that always always ends up costing more in the end anyway.

I've said consistently that I'm sure its shit in those camps.. but what are you expecting? They are refugee camps. That is just how it is. Again I will simply refer you to the story of the young boy who drowned because his father got greedy. They were quite safe in their situation. Not a fantastic living situation, but alive. Yes, it sucks for them. But again, thinking with the head before the heart is necessary here; Cameron has the right approach.
 
SS you want all refugees to stay in huge overcrowded refugee camps in the middle east where they can't work or live a normal life until the war is over (which might not happen for some years) to return to a destroyed country? do you consider this humane? and who are you to decide where somebody is entitled to go or not? these people choose to come to Europe for a better life. can you blame them? the west has built its wealth on the back of developing countries for centuries, and when crisis emerges there you just think it's their problem and not ours?
all you people do is sticking your heads in the sand and crying about your irrational fears. and all this talk about our own problems is just laughable. every junkie in the west has is better than people fleeing a fucking war.
Refugees won't take away from your wealth. actually capitalists are, but they are more comfortable when poor westerners blame people who are even poorer. we spend billions bailing out banks, we do nothing at all to get tax money rich people are hiding from the government, but spending comparably little money on this refugee crisis is too much. wtf?

one thing conservatives seem to overlook is the fact that this is already happening. these people are here. we have to deal with this. and crying about it will help nobody. and no matter how strict you will control borders, it will continue. what is your solution? wait, you have none, nevermind.
 
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SS you want all refugees to stay in huge overcrowded refugee camps in the middle east where they can't work or live a normal life until the war is over (which might not happen for some years) to return to a destroyed country? do you consider this humane? and who are you to decide where somebody is entitled to go or not? these people choose to come to Europe for a better life. can you blame them? the west has built its wealth on the back of developing countries for centuries, and when crisis emerges there you just think it's their problem and not ours?

By the same token why are you entitled to demand that these people come here, and more crucially why are they entitled to demand to come to the UK, Germany and Sweden specifically.. instead of trying for the first developed nation they come to. Everyone keeps glossing over this fact.. we can't have everyone demanding to come to three nations out of nearly 30 nations, that is bullshit. Especially given the UK's population relative to the EU in total, and the density of population. As has been said, we are full.

Do I blame them? Depends on who we're talking about. The wave of people barging through the EU at present.. I have a hard time having sympathy for these people because from their actions and demands they betray an air of entitlement, not of refugees in crisis. I imagine there are refugees in the camps who probably share my sentiments about their associates who have decided they can try and jump the queue. For the people waiting in the camps patiently, I do have sympathy for.

The last sentence.. I do not agree with being guilt tripped about my nations history. Aside from the fact I had nothing do with it, we did what other nations would have done if they had the chance. Dominance, aggression, being the strongest.. it is what pushes civilization along. Blood comes with that. That is nature. I feel no guilt about that what so ever. I did for a long time, courtesy of my middle class and well educated upbringing.. until I actually examined my thinking and saw I had been fooled by other peoples beliefs, and not evolved my own. Ie I developed critical t

all you people do is sticking your heads in the sand and crying about your irrational fears. and all this talk about our own problems is just laughable. every junkie in the west has is better than people fleeing a fucking war.
Refugees won't take away from your wealth. actually capitalists are, but they are more comfortable when poor westerners blame people who are even poorer. we spend billions bailing out banks, we do nothing at all to get tax money rich people are hiding from the government, but spending comparably little money on this refugee crisis is too much. wtf?

Ugh. So your logic is because the public was shafted by an elite cabal that we should elect to shaft ourselves even further by inviting more people over. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with those issues by the way, there most definitely is.. but resorting to just blaming the whole enterprise because of the actions of a few dickheads is illogical. The UK already gives much in the form of foreign aid every year, funded by the tax payer. Trying to guilt trip the public will not work, and it is getting less potent as a strategy.. people have simply had enough of it. Except the people on the left.. who continue to believe they can spend their way out of problems, at home and abroad.

one thing conservatives seem to overlook is the fact that this is already happening. these people are here. we have to deal with this. and crying about it will help nobody. and no matter how strict you will control borders, it will continue. what is your solution? wait, you have none, nevermind.

Yes, we do. Stop the boats coming first and stop the movement across the EU. If this is not done people will continue to come, and not just from Syria. We can not allow that.

Second, more aid and help going to the surrounding nations of Syria to deal with things there. Get people processed and sent off to multiple nations.. not just the UK, Germany and Sweden.

Third, stop fucking around in Syria and let Assad have his country back. We had no business going in in the first place.

Fourth, hang William Hague. Fucking treasonous little shitbag politician. Knew exactly what he was doing.
 
i'm as entitled to my opinion as you are. your comments are bigoted and i was reminded of this scene from my favourite film.

i guess only people who agree with you get to "call it like they see it"?

alasdair
 
I do not agree with being guilt tripped about my nations history. Aside from the fact I had nothing do with it, we did what other nations would have done if they had the chance.
I never said that you as a person had something to do with it. but our nations have to face this responsibility the same way, for example, Germany and Austria have/had to come to terms with the happenings of WWI / WWII. or would you say that the consequences of history don't need to be dealt with, because those who commited these crimes are dead already?
and saying "the others would have done the same" is just fucking childish. what matters is what actually happened.

The UK already gives much in the form of foreign aid every year
there has been a pretty comprehensive study stating that the first world gets twice as much money out of the developing world than it puts in. maybe you haven't heard about it? of course most of this money ends up in the pockets of those who need it the least.

Yes, we do. Stop the boats coming first and stop the movement across the EU. If this is not done people will continue to come, and not just from Syria. We can not allow that.
how are you going to stop the boats? how are you going to stop people from marching miles because they cannot get any other form of transportaion? maybe buildng a wall in front of the african mediterraenean coast will do?

Second, more aid and help going to the surrounding nations of Syria to deal with things there. Get people processed and sent off to multiple nations.. not just the UK, Germany and Sweden.
so you think it's okay that people get sent to any random country against their will? what about human rights?
 
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i'm as entitled to my opinion as you are. your comments are bigoted and i was reminded of this scene from my favourite film.

You try to make things personal at every opportunity as opposed to actually writing something constructive. Every fucking time. And you're 'Director of Public Relations'..

If you have an opinion why don't you actually write something constructive or poke at what I've written instead of trying to poke at who you assume I am. Everyone else has managed to do it and yet you're the only one who actually seems incapable of doing so.
 
i criticised your comments. not you.

if you can't stand the heat?

if my comments are striking a nerve, you're free to ignore me.

alasdair
 
i criticised your comments. not you.

if you can't stand the heat?

if my comments are striking a nerve, you're free to ignore me.

alasdair

Totally agree with you alasdair.
Very good scene btw, good analogy too.
Erik
 
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