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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

71 dead found in a truck abandoned in Austria

The British Empire (and other european nation states) "helped themselves" to so much of the world that we are in the mess we are in today.
If you can't see the irony of your position, i wont bother explaining it to you.

As I've already stated, I am well aware of our history. That does not serve as a justification. We are here now. If you hate what has been achieved then feel free to leave at any point and go live in some backwards Middle Eastern nation. I'm sure any drug habit or sexual preference will be greatly tolerated over there, and your skin colour (assuming you're caucasian) of course. If you're a woman make sure to pack your thong, they'll love that.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2015/mar/05/gay-asylum-seekers-lesbians-uk

Seeking asylum because your a lesbian...and I was led to believe asylum seekers were all fleeing war, inminent death. If you look through UK case law people have tried to claim asylum for all sorts of reasons.

If she did get accepted. Any Nigerian could say theu are gay or lesbian and get asylum: instantly get housing benefits, healthcare, loads of other taxpayer funded niceties.
 
I have similar sentiments as spacejunk, although I haven't met many refugees the ones I have have been pretty nice.

As do I, despite what he/she will say. Everyone is "nice".. everyone is human.. but the situation is a little more complicated than that.

The irony of the Gulf states refusing to help is they're worried an influx would destabilize their nations. In the West we've been so thoroughly brainwashed to accept cultural preservation is wrong, racist and elitist.. yet the Syrians own brothers, who are far more compatible than we are, refuse to help because they place value on their own culture.
 
Amen. And yes why did that 3 year old boy's family leave Turkey ? They were safe there. .
How do you know that? The family had fled from Kobane.
That place is a bombed-out fragment of a town, overrun by fighting. Many of the middle eastern refugee camps are unfit for human habitation, especially with small children.

SS, your talk of "backwards middle eastern nation(s)" is sickening. This whole fucking situation is depressing, and you've clearly drunk the proverbial kool aid.
 
SS, your talk of "backwards middle eastern nation(s)" is sickening. This whole fucking situation is depressing, and you've clearly drunk the proverbial kool aid.

They are backwards! Even when left to themselves they end up killing each other over their religion. Their religion has yet to spawn a cultural renewal like Christianity had in the Middle Ages. They continue to follow and implement what can only be described as a barbaric cult. That is just where they are at culturally. Even when given the chance to come over to the West they refuse to integrate and instead want to spawn this cult over the top of our own. Don't be fooled by their bullshit about it being peaceful.. they place more value on their own culture than our own.. they've seen a collective weakness and are exploiting it ruthlessly.

Perhaps you'd like to come visit the UK and see these little ghetto areas for yourself, see how well they're integrating. Again I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms with whatever drug habit or sexual preference you have.
 
Yup here we go.. whip out the history to batter those of the present who had absolutely nothing to do with it. I do not hold one shred of resentment towards my German brothers who's grandparents killed the family and friends of my own. History is done, it does not serve as a justification for hating on people of the present who had nothing to do with it. History is ALL blood and tears. But the point is who has chosen to do something with that and transmute it? Of the modern era, the British Empire is the example. Of the past you have the Roman Empire.

I do not ignore my countries history and your assumption that I do is grossly offensive. I am well aware of just how bloody it is. From the blood and tears we built something magnificent, a cultural platform/empire from which the modern world has sprung and continues to spring forth great things..

The point you seem to miss is although the current generation had nothing to do with colonialism they are still benefiting from the head start that it gave them. Likewise, the countries which were robbed blind (and worse) by the "magnificent" British empire are still suffering as a result.

What Great Britain has done might have been "magnificent" for Britons, I think you would find there are millions across the globe who would disagree on how positive their overall contributions have been.

I resent the "we" fucked these countries up. I was a teenager during the Iraq war of 2003 and I made my point back then.. my anger cost me friendships and strained the relationship with my parents. I continue to speak out about any falsehood or bullshit, and it has put tremendous strain on my relationship with other people who would rather turn away than open up to what's happening. Why should I or the others who felt deeply have to pay for this nonsense? I didn't vote for these fucktard politician's either! And the time I have voted, UKIP, for the kind of politician's who would never have done these stupid shite wars, these people then turn around and tell me I'm racist, xenophobic, homophobic.. aside from starting a revolution I have given all I can. Once I get a full time job and have my free time back I will begin producing materials again to break this bullshit hypnosis that has blinded so many people. My life is for that purpose. So again, I resent being told what is expected of me by our agenda driven leaders who don't have to suffer the consequences of their actions.

You seem not to understand how democracy works. Your state elected a Government which enacted foreign policy which has displaced millions of people worldwide, whether or not some individuals disagreed with this is irrelevant, as a state you collectively made this decision and it is an absolute joke to think your state should have no responsibility to make this right.

You are brushing aside all the things Britain has done wrong and acting like the rest of the world should just deal with it, while simultaneously throwing a tantrum about having to cop any negative consequences for your states wrongdoing. Do you really not see how selfish and entitled you are coming across?

Well maybe you should be a bit more concerned. Russians, Vietnamese, Indian's.. these people have compatible values with our own. They have slight differences, but we are generally compatible. In small movements of people there is little danger from those groups. Large movements of people from the Middle East, who have radically different cultural values to our own, is asking for trouble. Yes there's great people in all communities, but there is a massive difference here. Despite what our media keeps trying to ram down our throats, Islam is just not compatible with our cultural values. It just isn't.

You saying it isn't compatible doesn't make it so. As 1kw already pointed out in this thread, similar attitudes have been adopted in the past towards the immigrants who you now deem compatible with the West. I have met plenty of Islamic people who integrate in to my community just fine. Your xenophobia is not persuasive, it is off putting and comes across as very closed minded.

Oh.. and I don't see any of their brothers in the Gulf taking in any refugees. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Whilst it may not technically count as a Gulf state, you might take a look at Jordan. They have a population of less than 6.5 million and are currently housing over a million refugees and asylum seekers. If they can do that, the West can do a lot more than it is currently.

You might consider the reason that Gulf states are not volunteering to take in these people may have something to do with the fact that they did not play a significant role in displacing them, it is noteworthy that this is a trait they do not share with the UK.
 
The point you seem to miss is although the current generation had nothing to do with colonialism they are still benefiting from the head start that it gave them. Likewise, the countries which were robbed blind (and worse) by the "magnificent" British empire are still suffering as a result.

What Great Britain has done might have been "magnificent" for Britons, I think you would find there are millions across the globe who would disagree on how positive their overall contributions have been.

So? I didn't chose to be born in this country or any other.. my birth happened. I am where I am. I will not feel guilty for something that had absolutely nothing to do with me. You seem to forget that without the cultural platform established by Britain (and other Western nations) we would not have the level of technology, law and freedoms that we have today. All things that are exported to the rest of the world and which they are happy to utilize. Or would you rather we didn't have things like modern medicine and electricity and returned to a more primitive existence?

You seem not to understand how democracy works. Your state elected a Government which enacted foreign policy which has displaced millions of people worldwide, whether or not some individuals disagreed with this is irrelevant, as a state you collectively made this decision and it is an absolute joke to think your state should have no responsibility to make this right.

I didn't vote for these idiots or sanction their decision making. Tony Blair acted illegally and still has yet to be held to account for his war crimes. That was his choice, not the collective nations choice. Holding an entire nation to account for the bullshit of a small corrupt element is ridiculous. No where is it written that all persons of a democracy shall be held to account for the actions of its leaders. You prosecute the leaders, not the nation.

We don't have a responsibility to make things right. That is not law. We can choose to help, which we should, but on our terms. These "refugees" are stampeding through Europe demanding access to wealthy nations.. they clearly have no respect for their duty to the host nations. Forgive me, but I place my cultural preservation higher than their somehow god given right to access to wealthy nations. That's not how it works.

Set up camps, screen people, and let them in that way. Simply bashing your way through Europe is asinine. And you wonder why people don't want them to come here?? If they behave like that now what makes you think once they get here they'll behave any different.

You are brushing aside all the things Britain has done wrong and acting like the rest of the world should just deal with it, while simultaneously throwing a tantrum about having to cop any negative consequences for your states wrongdoing. Do you really not see how selfish and entitled you are coming across?

Again, I place my cultural preservation above these people. Sorry, but if it's a choice between me and them, I'm going to chose me and our system. I will not be made to feel responsible for the actions of other people who leverage the power of this nation to play their silly little games on the international stage. I am FULLY aware of what we have done, and was as it was happening, which can't be said for most people. Not a day goes by when it doesn't piss me off. It's a ridiculous situation.

You saying it isn't compatible doesn't make it so. As 1kw already pointed out in this thread, similar attitudes have been adopted in the past towards the immigrants who you now deem compatible with the West. I have met plenty of Islamic people who integrate in to my community just fine. Your xenophobia is not persuasive, it is off putting and comes across as very closed minded.

Oh really? Do you think they would tolerate it if white Christian's starting grouping together in their home nations and trying to propagate their culture over the top of their Islamic one? If you do you're sorely mistaken.

Whilst it may not technically count as a Gulf state, you might take a look at Jordan. They have a population of less than 6.5 million and are currently housing over a million refugees and asylum seekers. If they can do that, the West can do a lot more than it is currently.

And the Saudi's? There are many nations in that region who could be doing something but are doing absolutely nothing. Literally nothing.

You might consider the reason that Gulf states are not volunteering to take in these people may have something to do with the fact that they did not play a significant role in displacing them, it is noteworthy that this is a trait they do not share with the UK.

You have no clue mate. Saudi Arabia were involved in financing the anti-regime forces in Syria. They were clearly involved in all of this.
 
The British Empire (and other european nation states) "helped themselves" to so much of the world that we are in the mess we are in today.
If you can't see the irony of your position, i wont bother explaining it to you.

Yes. I agree.

Amen. And yes why did that 3 year old boy's family leave Turkey ? They were safe there. I have similar sentiments as spacejunk, although I haven't met many refugees the ones I have have been pretty nice. Thats irrelevant though, it's not economically feasible to care for all these people in Europe. Like the article I posted of Iraqi Kurds in $3,000 a month or was it even more condos in London not paying a dime, you've got native Brits who are homeless , veterans who are homeless who are going hungry , then you have refugees living in a luxury condo for free that just entered the country. Thats just laughable.

I don't think they were safe there. You can never know how these people feel unless you visit where they live or hear their history.
I've heard of horrible histories. And if your life is in danger to the point you fear for your physical safety of yourself and the ones you love. You live by instinct to survive.

Even after you reach the other side, you still have to go through hell to find an acceptable spot. Some countries don't provide cultural integration and treat these ppl like animals.
Can you imagine living like that? Seeing your family going through this?
 
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Yes. I agree.



I don't think they were safe there. You can never know how these people feel unless you visit where they live or hear their history.
I've heard of horrible histories. And if your life is in danger to the point you fear for your physical safety of yourself and the ones you love. You live by instinct to survive.

Even after you reach the other side, you still have to go through hell to find an acceptable spot. Some countries don't provide cultural integration and treat these ppl like animals.
Can you imagine living like that? Seeing your family going through this?

Unsure in Turkey? Thats hard to believe. They have a lower murder rate than the USA. Its confirmed they left on a boat from Turkey. Why would Greece an Oryhodox country have better accomodations for these Syrians than Turkey a fellow Muslim country?
 
People immigrate illegally for many reasons. The millions who do it for nothing more than economic reasons make genuine asylum seekers (like those who died in the truck) look like liars and opportunists. I don't think it is stretching it to say that the massive floods of illegal economic migrants indirectly put asylum seekers in danger and contributed to these deaths. The sheer volume makes the process extremely slow, draws attention, and makes those who have legitimate need take too many risks. And you're right in saying that capitalists exploit the situation.
...
Millions of illegals=millions of people exploited on a low wage

Inb4
They are escaping from wars :(
Racist fascist
You don't have a heart!!11!
 
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didn't read the whole thread, but as an Austrian citizen this is truly sickening to me. our government is completely unable to deal with this situation properly. a couple hundred refugees having to sleep outdoors w/o tents in a camp and then something like this... also the collaboration with the hungarian police forces to "protect" the border Hungary/Serbia.

fuck
 
People immigrate illegally for many reasons. The millions who do it for nothing more than economic reasons make genuine asylum seekers (like those who died in the truck) look like liars and opportunists. I don't think it is stretching it to say that the massive floods of illegal economic migrants indirectly put asylum seekers in danger and contributed to these deaths. The sheer volume makes the process extremely slow, draws attention, and makes those who have legitimate need take too many risks. And you're right in saying that capitalists exploit the situation.

False. The people in the truck weren't in danger in Hungary. They were found in Austria likely en route to UK that has better ammentites/benefits but they could have bern safe and claimed asylum in Hungary. Theu gambled and paid with their lives sadly.
 
Hungary denies most refugees asylum in the long term, and Hungary is very racist and their government is extremely right-wing and oppressive. no wonder almost all of them want to move on west.
 
no wonder almost all of them want to move on west.

See the problem is that as a refugee you don't get to pick and fucking choose where you go. It doesn't work like that. Wanting to pick, forcing your way through, or paying to do so.. that makes you an economic migrant. If you succeed, an illegal immigrant.

You have to come through the appropriate channels.
 
you realize that we live in the most wealthy nations on planet earth? with more then enough money and know how to deal with this the right way. and still we (EU) decide that it's okay that more than a thousand people drown in the meditearranean sea this year.

and btw the dublin treaty (I believe) is fucking bullshit. the fact that refugees have to apply for asylum in the country they first reach is insane and one source of the problems. comfortble for the nations far away from the EU borders though.

you write like you have no empathy at all with these people, how come?

also under current circumstances, the "appropriate channels" are against my idea of what human rights are.
 
Unsure in Turkey? Thats hard to believe. They have a lower murder rate than the USA. Its confirmed they left on a boat from Turkey. Why would Greece an Oryhodox country have better accomodations for these Syrians than Turkey a fellow Muslim country?

Syria and Turkey have been in conflict with each other for over 70 years, ever since the Hatay Provence was annexed in 1939. I'd imagine there is as much love for Syrians in Turkey as for Americans in Latin America
 
Hungary denies most refugees asylum in the long term, and Hungary is very racist and their government is extremely right-wing and oppressive. no wonder almost all of them want to move on west.

Easy to say for someone from a country that didn't spend hundreds of years under Turkish assault only to end up suffering the Soviets until the 90s.
 
you realize that we live in the most wealthy nations on planet earth? with more then enough money and know how to deal with this the right way. and still we (EU) decide that it's okay that more than a thousand people drown in the meditearranean sea this year.

and btw the dublin treaty (I believe) is fucking bullshit. the fact that refugees have to apply for asylum in the country they first reach is insane and one source of the problems. comfortble for the nations far away from the EU borders though.

you write like you have no empathy at all with these people, how come?

also under current circumstances, the "appropriate channels" are against my idea of what human rights are.


Ive heard Saudi Arabia is wealthy too;; as well as Qatar, Israel is wealthy and closer than UK or Western Europe. Why not focus on then? They already have boats in the Meditarranean to help atop drownings, can't save everyone though.
 
you realize that we live in the most wealthy nations on planet earth? with more then enough money and know how to deal with this the right way. and still we (EU) decide that it's okay that more than a thousand people drown in the meditearranean sea this year.

First of all the majority of people coming across the Med are from Africa. Economic migrants. Young males mostly. Men who could be fighting to make their own countries a better place, instead of just trying to get a free pass in wealthier nations. They choose to try the journey. If they drown that's their own fault for making that decision. Second when you say wealthy nation.. last time I checked everyone I know my age is struggling, many older people are struggling, most people are barely keeping themselves together. The real wealth of this country is our cultural platform, and infrastructure. Infrastructure that can barely cope with the numbers as it is! You try getting a doctors appointment or going on the tube during rush hour every day for years. Fucking. Nightmare.

you write like you have no empathy at all with these people, how come?

My position is no different to you seeing the homeless man on the street. You know, the war veteran who gave his life away for the country or guy who just fell through the cracks. The guy you "feel" sorry for and give some change now and then. You don't really care.. out of sight out of mind. Last time I checked I don't see people inviting these homeless people into their homes. It's the same with this refugee crisis. You "care" but only so long as you don't see the immediateness of the effects. They won't be coming to your home, to your neighborhood or community. The effects are diluted through the nation that it doesn't need to concern you.

That's why I write like I have no empathy, because I see where this is ultimately heading. Do you have any idea how many people the UK took on last year through immigration? 600,000. That's the official number, not including illegal immigrants. So it's more like 1 million. A million people, when our pop is 60-70 million (officially). That is insanity. Sheer insanity. We can barely keep up with the demand for the people who are already here, and we bring in another 1/60th of the population. Who is going to pay for all of the extra pressure on the infrastructure?

It's alright for these wacko politician's and celebrities, and well-to-do liberal people, who champion this whole movement of people.. they don't have to deal with the effects of it (though they will eventually).

If we were actually a wealthy nation with capacity I would be more than happy for us to take on people. But we're not in that situation. At what point do the rights of the people of this country get respected? You know, to expect a better society for our children than the one we had? Because if we keep putting extra pressure on the infrastructure our children will inherit an absolute shitpile.
 
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