71 dead found in a truck abandoned in Austria

[RedWhiteNTrue]

Would never guess this was Europe if not told by article...

 

[One Thousand Words]

I don't know, they look a lot happier than Africa

 

[Deleted member 210577]

To fear a sudden influx of now Arab refugees is silly. They will eventually assimilate into your community no less than any other culture over the past 100 years.

Mmmm yeh except they don't.

 

[Al12]

CLOSE THE BORDERS!

People in favor of mass immigration have been brainwashed by the lies of the media controlled by the financial elites.
Mass immigration is part of the agenda of the globalists, ironic that the leftists who really hate the evil capitalist system are too dumb to even realize this.

Millions of illegals=millions of people exploited on a low wage

Inb4
They are escaping from wars
Racist fascist
You don't have a heart!!11!

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Mass immigration is part of the agenda of the globalists, ironic that the leftists who really hate the evil capitalist system are too dumb to even realize this.

I often wonder why they are unable to see what is right in front of them. I wonder if it is more to do with the left vs right paradigm more than anything.. got to stick it to the Tories or whoever is right-leaning (despite the Tories actually being left-leaning.. they all are). They would rather engage in that silly battle of left vs right than acknowledge that uncontrolled immigration is actually a serious issue. Perhaps.

I don't know.. but I'm getting pretty tired of hearing how great immigration is whilst my generations hopes of a future in this nation are being dismantled piece by piece. Sorry.. but these desperate people trying to get into this country will pull us all down in the end. Recognizing that doesn't make you heartless. The migrants don't give a fuck about this country. They may say they do, but they don't. Why would they? All these young able bodied men abandoned their own nations instead of fighting to build it up again.

The one thing these able bodied male migrants, left leaning public and politicians have in common is, they have absolutely no spine what so ever. They'll leach what they can, and when this country ends up becoming a third world shithole like the one they abandoned they will simply move on.

I hate David Cameron with a passion, but he was correct to call them a swarm.

 

[spacejunk]

Europe's economy is fucked.
Don't blame immigration - it was fucked to start with, for reasons more to do with Big Business than "migrants"

-ss- your opening paragraph in the post above is just laughable. I can't even begin trying to untangle any kind of logic buried in there.

 

[RedWhiteNTrue]

Europe's economy is fucked.
Don't blame immigration - it was fucked to start with, for reasons more to do with Big Business than "migrants"

-ss- your opening paragraph in the post above is just laughable. I can't even begin trying to untangle any kind of logic buried in there.

Immigrants exacerbate the economic problems, as a whole. Not all of them. Many are beneficial. The ones coming on boats with no bank account, only clothes on thekr back, no skills/grasp of the native language will struggle to find work and drain the public coffers with their food, shelter and health care. If they have children they are costing even more allowing them to stay. What is the benefit to the European people here, the voters/taxpayers?

Its not xenophobia, it's simple economics. The countries in Meditarranean already have serious debt problems and high unemployment. Taking on thousands hundteds of thousands of asylum seekers overall has a negative impact on an already dire situation. Now consider a Saudi/Syrian/ any nationality investor that wants to move to Italy to build a factory or open a new business or has a medical ir other advanced degree that will employ people or pay more in taxes than the services they use. Of course they should be allowed to Europe.

Think about it like this. You have 5 kids: every week you buy them food, pay for their health insurance, clothes and give them an allowance. You are already in debt from your mortgage and credit card company. Would it be wise to adopt 5 more children or perhaps recognise it simply is not sustainable? You might hear their heart wrenching stories they were orphaned and in abject poverty but in adopting them your current children would suffer or your expenses are raised until you are soon bankrupted.

Just my $0.02

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Europe's economy is fucked.

Precisely. Hence why immigration control is needed now more than ever, as opposed to intentionally accelerating an already dire situation. Turning on big business or bankers or whoever and saying it's all their fault, whilst partly true, does not function as a justification for ignoring the immigration problem. Both require action.

Going all bleeding heart for migrants whilst simultaneously denouncing big buisness, bankers and politicians, is cowardice to me. It seems like you want this country to fail, rather than fight to fix it. That's the impression I get from most left-leaning people.. essentially they hate their own home. Once the home is actually destroyed I'm sure they'll change their tune. It is delusional thinking at its finest.

 

[spacejunk]

You have such a dismally poor understanding of the topics you rant about, i don't take them at all seriously.
I know a lot of people who arrived in my country as refugees fleeing despots such as Stalin, the Taliban and the horrors of the Vietnam war.
All these people are intelligent, industrious, educated members of society. One of their biggest hurdles in their new life in a totally foreign environment is the prejudices of people like you - the sense of entitlement you have over the economic prosperity you seem to believe you are born into.
In all of the cases i have mentioned, these people add more to the economic fortunes of australia than they 'take' - whether that is starting their own businesses and employing people, to working in social services for people in similar situations that they can help adjust to the transition from "refugee" to "human being".
Whether it is colonised (stolen) land you call home, or a 'mixing pot' of various historic conquests and battles (ie the Normans and Saxons or whatever ethnic group claims ownership over certain regions) it is all - to a degree - figments of human imagination.
We are all just custodians of the land we live, build and farm upon.

Sure, we can destroy vast swathes of the planet, or build monuments to our figures of worship (Gods, or more recently; capitalism) upon that land - but ultimately all of humanity and more generally life itself has to share this planet - regardless of 'political borders', 'nation states' or other manmade, colonial-era tribalist concepts of ownership.

Call me all the names you like (lefty, bleeding heart etc etc) - it just goes to show how light on for content your argument and perspective is. Forcing people to remain in bombed out cities filled with warring factions (i assume you do realise that people in syria and elsewhere are fighting against IS?) isn't going to make their plight any less of a concern for the international community.

Take a note from history, and see that most of the most barbarous governments have been supported by their people in periods of economic trouble - the democratic election of the nazis, as an obvious but classic example.
These fringe anti-immigration politicians find a voice in periods of recession, whereas in times of prosperity, few people give them the time of day. Our leaders need to show some actual leadership on these matters, rather than riling up fear and manipulating peoples' prejudices for their personal gain.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Take a note from history, and see that most of the most barbarous governments have been supported by their people in periods of economic trouble - the democratic election of the nazis..

If the immigration issue had been dealt with sensibly over a decade ago in my country (UK), where a sensible system accepted those who could benefit our nation were let in and prevented the floodgates from being left open, we would not be in the situation we are today where this feeling of resentment is continuing to build which could lead to stupid political decisions in the future. Our country can not cope with the amount of people we have now.

It's all dandy for those who have established their lot in life, but for the younger generations who are facing escalating housing costs and costs of all kinds, lack of available jobs, and all the other issues, letting even more people in is a giant middle finger to the children and future children of this country who will have to compete with even more nonsense just to even get started in life. Quality of life starts to go down across the board and eventually you lose the whole bloody platform we built up, the spaces we created, that allow us to have security and think for awhile in order to help make society a better place.

The industrious generations before the greatest generation understood the importance of establishing a cultural platform from which to operate. Many regular folk toiled to build it up. It's so easy to just say "all land belongs to all" but you ignore all the shit that happened to build up this cultural platform from which all these fantastic inventions of science and enterprise came forward. Diluting and stretching our platform to the point where it can no longer cope is a recipe for disaster in terms of cultural progression.

All these people are intelligent, industrious, educated members of society

How can you even begin to make that assumption, you don't know any of these people. It is a blind assumption that you feel they have the same cultural values as another nation. Working for money is not a cultural value I place great value on.. it's great for government and business but does absolutely nothing for the longevity of the people.

I frequently hear this argument about "Oh, without all these people the NHS would fail.. we need immigrants!". What about the people of this nation who are already fucking here! Help them. Train them. Get them where they need to be. There's plenty of people struggling in this country who would love to prosper and be industrious like these wonder people of other nations you refer to. People who could stir the economic pot.

Help ourselves. Then go out and help the world.

 

[One Thousand Words]

You are ignoring the centuries of colonisation, exploitation and corruption that your industrious nation undertook at the expense of these poor people. Your comfortable existence came at the expense of millions of this planet. All that is happening now is a slight redistribution of resources.

Education, food, clean water and healthcare is all any parent wants for their children. Some have to risk their lives crossing waters to achieve it, others simply have to have sex in the car park of the local pub called the Crown & Anchor.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

You are ignoring the centuries of colonisation, exploitation and corruption that your industrious nation undertook at the expense of these poor people. Your comfortable existence came at the expense of millions of this planet. All that is happening now is a slight redistribution of resources.

Yup here we go.. whip out the history to batter those of the present who had absolutely nothing to do with it. I do not hold one shred of resentment towards my German brothers who's grandparents killed the family and friends of my own. History is done, it does not serve as a justification for hating on people of the present who had nothing to do with it. History is ALL blood and tears. But the point is who has chosen to do something with that and transmute it? Of the modern era, the British Empire is the example. Of the past you have the Roman Empire.

I do not ignore my countries history and your assumption that I do is grossly offensive. I am well aware of just how bloody it is. From the blood and tears we built something magnificent, a cultural platform/empire from which the modern world has sprung and continues to spring forth great things. The idea that blatantly average people from other nations coming here will somehow boost our enterprise is nonsense.. all they do is add increasing pressure to an already stretched platform. That is ignoring the fact that the people in question, Africans and Middle Eastern folk, simply do not share our cultural or societal values. They just don't. And saying they help generate money is not anywhere near as valuable as real cultural or societal value, which comes as a result of building the cultural platform.

I get it alright, everyone wants education, food and water. Who doesn't? But our nations are not built to support everyone coming over here for those things. We can't support the people we have now and haven't for decades! If this continues we lose the whole bloody thing, it will disintegrate before our eyes.. the pressure on the system is enormous, in this country at least. I want to help those people. Who doesn't? We are all human and I resent it when people try to insinuate that I am not just because I think about the future of this country I was born into.

If we trash our cultural platform we lose the best chance we have for changing things for the betterment of all mankind. Out of their self-preservation they will trash it and won't even realize they have. Their cultural values will continue in their own nations. And if we have to choose between ours and their values.. Africa and the Middle East have not done anything of note for centuries. Africa could.. Africans I've met are fantastic and imaginative. But the Middle Eastern people.. they are blinded by Islam and will end up destroying themselves and everyone else.. that is just how it is.

 

[What 23]

While reading your post, I visualized an implosion. This is also what my dad said when we were talking about it, that the "new races" wouldn't be able to hold the system up.

But this is a path we are on, I guess. No matter the reason, It would be wrong to turn away actual people. There should be some distinction, however. I don't think permanent resettlement is the right thing to do. Fuck. WE fucked shit up, why don't we go clean it up? Hell, if I wasn't so fucked up myself I would join up if this was a plan... To drastically alter the landscape to allow people to return to what we promised, more or less, years ago. Our countries did say "freedom" while doing whatever the hell they were doing... It just makes us look flimsy and wrong... But at the same time, the wars were unpopular to begin with. The people now have to pay.
And it's a choice they have to make.

I'd rather they all come to the U.S.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

While reading your post, I visualized an implosion. This is also what my dad said when we were talking about it, that the "new races" wouldn't be able to hold the system up.

But this is a path we are on, I guess. No matter the reason, It would be wrong to turn away actual people. There should be some distinction, however. I don't think permanent resettlement is the right thing to do. Fuck. WE fucked shit up, why don't we go clean it up? Hell, if I wasn't so fucked up myself I would join up if this was a plan... To drastically alter the landscape to allow people to return to what we promised, more or less, years ago. Our countries did say "freedom" while doing whatever the hell they were doing... It just makes us look flimsy and wrong... But at the same time, the wars were unpopular to begin with. The people now have to pay.
And it's a choice they have to make.

I'd rather they all come to the U.S.

Implosion is the right word. The greatest threat to the people who run this planet are the well educated, well organized individuals in Western nations.. because it is from there that a new system is trying to break forth that will use our current one as the launching pad, build over the old one and do away with the corrupt element of humanity. Instead they would rather sacrifice national sovereignty and lower the standard of living for everyone in an attempt to prevent that. Hence why we have the EU project, mass immigration, multi-culturalism etc..

I resent the "we" fucked these countries up. I was a teenager during the Iraq war of 2003 and I made my point back then.. my anger cost me friendships and strained the relationship with my parents. I continue to speak out about any falsehood or bullshit, and it has put tremendous strain on my relationship with other people who would rather turn away than open up to what's happening. Why should I or the others who felt deeply have to pay for this nonsense? I didn't vote for these fucktard politician's either! And the time I have voted, UKIP, for the kind of politician's who would never have done these stupid shite wars, these people then turn around and tell me I'm racist, xenophobic, homophobic.. aside from starting a revolution I have given all I can. Once I get a full time job and have my free time back I will begin producing materials again to break this bullshit hypnosis that has blinded so many people. My life is for that purpose. So again, I resent being told what is expected of me by our agenda driven leaders who don't have to suffer the consequences of their actions.

Anyway.. we do not have an obligation to further interfere in this situation and I refuse to be emotionally blackmailed by images of drowning babies or people in trucks. These "poor helpless people" could quite just as easily turn around and fuck us over once they get back on their feet, we have no way of knowing. No one even seems to acknowledge the fact that we may let in ISIS members to our nations either in this emotional panic. Desperate thinking could cost us dearly.

We shouldn't have gone into Iraq, Libya, Syria. But trying to turn our nation into a failed state like theirs is in no ones interest.. except, the corporate and ruling class.

 

[spacejunk]

How can you even begin to make that assumption, you don't know any of these people. It is a blind assumption that you feel they have the same cultural values as another nation. Working for money is not a cultural value I place great value on.. it's great for government and business but does absolutely nothing for the longevity of the people.

um, if you actually read and comprehended what i wrote, you'd see that i was talking about people i do know and care about.
Unlike you, i don't fear "the other" - i get out and meet people from all walks of life. Refugees, in my experience, have been some of the most inspiring people i've ever met.
I'm not saying that every asylum seeker holds these qualities (i'll leave the blanket generalisations to you) - but certainly the examples in my life have been extraordinary individuals.

And while we're on the topic, most of the (genuine) illegal migrants in my country are from the United Kingdom.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Unlike you, i don't fear "the other" - i get out and meet people from all walks of life.

Well maybe you should be a bit more concerned. Russians, Vietnamese, Indian's.. these people have compatible values with our own. They have slight differences, but we are generally compatible. In small movements of people there is little danger from those groups. Large movements of people from the Middle East, who have radically different cultural values to our own, is asking for trouble. Yes there's great people in all communities, but there is a massive difference here. Despite what our media keeps trying to ram down our throats, Islam is just not compatible with our cultural values. It just isn't.

I'm done feeling for sorry for these people. Helpless today, but tomorrow they will stomp over you and not think twice about it. Why? Because they take pride in their cultural platform, unlike us, and there will only ever be one dominant platform in a nation. And if we have to chose, I chose ours.. you know, the one where we don't behead people or stone them for stupid shit, where we have actual law not some religious shite that makes things up on the fly.

Oh.. and I don't see any of their brothers in the Gulf taking in any refugees. That should tell you everything you need to know.

 

[spacejunk]

When did you ever "feel sorry for these people"?
My values are completely incompatiple with yours, though for all i know (or care) our ancestry may be identical.

Your arrogant bigotry knows no bounds.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

When did you ever "feel sorry for these people"?
My values are completely incompatiple with yours, though for all i know (or care) our ancestry may be identical.

Your arrogant bigotry knows no bounds.

You judge my compassion based on my intellectual position alone just because you disagree with it, which is both ignorant and arrogant on your behalf. Just because I choose to have some discrimination over when I fling open my welcoming arms to people doesn't mean I have no compassion. If you hadn't noticed our nations are struggling, we can't help the world unless we help ourselves first.

I do not see their brothers in the Gulf nations coming to their rescue. Plenty of space, similar cultural level, and plenty of money in the pockets of the elite there.. We may have only taken in a few hundred, but neighbouring Gulf states have done ZERO. Their own brothers and they stand by and do nothing. Funny how the media tries to make us all feel guilty and responsible and yet nothing is really said about them. Funny that.

I see refugees trying to move from secure/non-war torn nations through to Germany and the UK. At that point you are no longer a refugee but an economic migrant.. it is obviously why they are trying, and why we see so many able bodied men in the pictures.. not children and women.


Now it comes to light the drowned boy story, which is emotionally manipulating the public, was the result of his families own greed. They were secure in Turkey. Not economically prosperous, but alive. They tried to better their situation, and unfortunately it resulted in his death. Paid 4000 euros to smugglers. I have compassion for the child caught up in the bullshit of adult games.. but his family made a really bad decision on his behalf. If they can save up 4000 euros then they're clearly not starving to death.

 

[spacejunk]

The British Empire (and other european nation states) "helped themselves" to so much of the world that we are in the mess we are in today.
If you can't see the irony of your position, i wont bother explaining it to you.

 

[RedWhiteNTrue]

I do not see their brothers in the Gulf nations coming to their rescue. Plenty of space, similar cultural level, and plenty of money in the pockets of the elite there.. We may have only taken in a few hundred, but neighbouring Gulf states have done ZERO. Their own brothers and they stand by and do nothing. Funny how the media tries to make us all feel guilty and responsible and yet nothing is really said about them. Funny that.

I see refugees trying to move from secure/non-war torn nations through to Germany and the UK. At that point you are no longer a refugee but an economic migrant.. it is obviously why they are trying, and why we see so many able bodied men in the pictures.. not children and women.

Amen. And yes why did that 3 year old boy's family leave Turkey ? They were safe there. I have similar sentiments as spacejunk, although I haven't met many refugees the ones I have have been pretty nice. Thats irrelevant though, it's not economically feasible to care for all these people in Europe. Like the article I posted of Iraqi Kurds in $3,000 a month or was it even more condos in London not paying a dime, you've got native Brits who are homeless , veterans who are homeless who are going hungry , then you have refugees living in a luxury condo for free that just entered the country. Thats just laughable.