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4-HO-MIPT scraps

HBr -- Shulgin mentions 6-hydroxydopamine in PiHKAL, under #168, TMPEA. He says:

"The simple compound that results from the stripping of all three of the O-methyl groups from TMPEA is the extremely potent neurotoxin, 6-hydroxydopamine. When it is ad-ministered to an otherwise intact experimental animal, it produces sympathectomy, effectively destroying the sympathetic nervous system. And some of the methyl groups of TMPEA are known to be stripped off through the normal metabolic processes that occur in the liver. There are many fascinating psychedelics that have a signature of methoxyl groups para to one-another. It is known that they, too, can lose a methyl group or two. It would be intriguing to see if there was some biochemical overlap between the metabolism of some of these centrally active drugs and the metabolic fate of 6-hydroxydopamine. But in a test animal, of course, rather than in man."

I did a quick Medline search awhile back to try to see what its mechanism of neurotoxicity is, but only found articles that discussed using it as a way of sympathectomizing lab animals in order to do further studies. Apparently using it for that sort of thing is standard procedure, so the original papers determining how it works must be pretty old. An afternoon at the library could resolve this, but that's just not doable for me these days. Anyone who knows or can find out, please report back....

So you saw this in a chem supply site? Needless to say, this stuff shouldn't be sold like candy to ravers alongside the 2C-I. Neither should 2C-I .... but damn, this material is over the top dangerous, and I wonder how many "psychonauts" browsing the site you saw realized this? "Hey, let's try this new RC." Yikes.

peace,
Dave
 
Oh yeah, one more thing:

hydrobromide said:
on the topic of 4-HO-MiPT, did anyone ever store this stuff for a long period of time? how fast did it lose potency (if it did)? What are everyone's thoughts on this chem?
Click to expand...

A couple of people who have experimented with this material like it better than either iprocin or ethocin. Someone Who Isn't Me observed fewer muscle tremors with mirpocin compared to iprocin. Otherwise, they seemed equivalent in every way, except the miprocin is active at a lower dose. (Well .... maybe iprocin is a little more euphoric?? Can't tell yet; SWIM has done only a couple of trials with each.)

As for storage, I don't know about long-term. The obvious: cold (ideally frozen), dry and dark.

However, if you make an aqueous solution and freeze it, the solution should keep for months or years. Dissolve in a mildy acidic solution (e.g., a little lemon juice mixed with water -- others have pointed out that the preservative in the lemon juice is also beneficial to storage), and freeze. Thaw when samples are needed, and refreeze. I know this works with iprocin, and preliminary results suggest it works with miprocin, too. Note that it has to be frozen solid; this method won't work with an ethanol solution.
 
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I recently acquired some 4-Ho-MiPT. I'm still waiting for my scales to arrive, so I have no real way to measure out an accurate dose. I would like to try ~10 mg's for my first time.

I have not indulged in any sort of psycho-active substance for almost 4 years now. I used to all the time, but eventually had to get my life in order. Now that I have that part on track, I felt that some controlled experimentation was in order.

I have an unknown quantity of 4-Ho-MiPT, and since, as I have stated before, do not have a scale yet, do not know how much I ingested during this trial experiment. Lets just say curiousity got the best of me.

The appearance of 4-Ho-MiPT is slighty tan in color. It is powdery, with small crystals throughout.

Because I was unsure of the how much I wanted to take, I made sure that the amount I garnered was VERY small. I decided to use a toothpick, and wet the end in my mouth. I inserted the toothpick into the powder approximately 2 mm, and pulled out and shook off any excess. It was slightly coated. I dipped the end of the toothpick into a small glass of water and it came off freely from the end.

I was somewhat surprised that the chemical did NOT dissolve into the water, it merely sat atop the surface and floated around. I figured, what the hell, and slugged the water. No noticable taste. But considering there really wasn't that much there, I wasn't surprised.

I decided to take a shower since I had just finished a 12 hour shift, and did so. This is about 15 minutes after Ground Zero.

As I was wetting my hair, I noticed that when I ran my fingers through, it felt.....different. Sort of tingly as I did so.

I finished showering and sat down to watch some t.v. At about T+30 mins, I noticed that thinking became very lucid. I thought about all sorts of things, and my mind simply shifted from one idea to the next with the greatest of ease. I have a print by Alex Grey hanging in my room, "One," that's pretty trippy in itself, so I thought I would concentrate on that to see if I were experiencing any OEV.

SOMETIMES, as I stared just below the print, it would appear to breathe just very slightly. Pretty cool to me considering of how small a dose I figured I had ingested.

Nothing else really happened that needs to be mentioned. I was pretty tired from working such a long shift, so I decided to high-tail it to bed. I didn't think I was going to have any trouble falling to sleep, but JUST in case, I took a 3 pills of melatonin, and 4 valerian root capsules.

Nighty night I went. I awoke refreshed and ready for the day.

-curiousgeorge
 
Curiousgeorge - you were lucky just to get a threshold dose. 20 mg of this stuff is described in TiHKAL as being stronger than a whopping (50 mg) dose of psilocin.

What you did was stupid, but you were lucky. That guy who stuck his tongue in 2C-T-21 wasn't. No one should ever do stuff like this. Just wait for your scale to arrive.

"Enjoy it responsibly", blah blah blah.
 
Projump, sheesh. Do you mean MiPT or 4-HO-MiPT? And what do you mean by "extracted from natural plants"?

And Shulgin does know what he's doing, but do you know the difference between what he's doing and not doing? He knows he's making new molecules. He doesn't know how safe they are. No one does until they're tested pretty extensively.
 
4-ho-MIPT

I understand that when the molecules change we do not know the toxicity of them. I think if there were some negative effects we would know by now.
 
My feeling is also that the synthetic 4-HO's are probably about as safe as psilocin in the short run, but there's really no way to know for sure what the long-term effects of repeated or even occasional use might be.

Here's something to consider. Look at how different 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-DET, and 5-MeO-MiPT are from one another, in every respect: subjective effects, potency, absence or presnce of oral activity. Shulgin himself described 5-MeO-DET as possibly showing worrisome signs of neurotoxicity (tinnitus and vertigo). This series clearly shows that changing the N-alkyl substitution pattern in one class of tryptamines distinctly changes activity. And it may well affect toxicity as well, in the case of the diethyl.

Granted, the same N-substitution patterns in the 4-HO series appear pretty similar across the board in their effects. Maybe the 4-substitution smooths things out. Or maybe it also masks some underlying toxicity of the diethyl. That compound doesn't seem to have generated as much enthusiasm as the other 4-HO's, and is described in some reports as being a bit "darker". Maybe that's just placebo stuff, and perhaps it's not toxic, to the extent Leuner tested it. But who knows, really?
 
For everyone that has taken 4-HO-MiPT, how did it last?

It was kind of strange for my gf and I because we were still feeling it up to 8 hours after injesting it.
 
^^^^

It lasted awhile for me too. I was expecting a trip of maybe 3-4 hours duration based on much of what I'd read about it, but both times I've taken 4-HO-MiPT I was still cooking right along at T +7. %) The comedown for me both times was very long and gradual.
 
hydrobromide said:
For everyone that has taken 4-HO-MiPT, how did it last?

It was kind of strange for my gf and I because we were still feeling it up to 8 hours after injesting it.
Click to expand...

I passed this question on to a FOAF, a male weighing about 200 lb who sampled it twice at 13 mg, and here was his reply:

"It lasted about as long as 4-HO-DiPT, i.e., peaks within about a half hour, and there is noticeable waning a little past the two hour mark with a tail of several hours and residual insomnia for a few hours more. I couldn't sleep until about the ten-hour mark, and even that required some benadryl. The visual part, with really obvious OEV morphing and CEV geometry, didn't last as long as I would have liked, though nitrous helped bring it back. I felt that I could have boosted around the three-hour point but didn't because I knew it would interfere with sleep. The second time I took it, I was at a Shulgin +1.5 by the five-hour point (down from a mild +3 at the peak), and comfortable driving. Still, after six hours and with a little concentration, waving a candle in a circle about two feet in diameter left trails for the entire circumference. My nervous system was clearly aware that I'd 'taken something' for a good eight hours or more. Like 2C-D, it comes on fast and peaks early, with beautiful visuals. Unlike 4-HO-DiPT, no annoying muscle tremors, and no urge to empty the bowels during the come-up, though there is otherwise a definite 'tryptamine vibration' felt physically. edited for content - atlas

Sorry about that tangent at the end, but my FOAF insisted that I could publish his comments only if I left the political part in, so that's what I did. Hope that's useful. :)
 
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Not a problem - above edits are OK; FOAF understands and would rather see the information out there.

And yes, MGS, I'm sure that political discussion here in PD is very much anathema to your sensibilities. ;)

Actually, I know that forums often gradually evolve unspoken rules, but with some political discussion permitted in other threads (like the RC crackdown thread) and nothing in the Forum guidelines about it, it was completely impossible for a new-ish poster to know.
 
Ya, there wa a discussion rule barring political discussion. It was edited because we thought it was superflous. In fact, half the reason the web tryp discussion was closed was because of political chatter.
 
Dave Woodmont said:
And yes, MGS, I'm sure that political discussion here in PD is very much anathema to your sensibilities
Click to expand...

Actually, back when I was a moderator for this forum, I created a no political discussion rule specifically to keep myself and others from getting into go no-where political ideological. I'd imagine the post you cited was before I realized political discussion not specifically related to psychedelic drugs was best left out of this forum. I did not know till just now the moderators removed this rule after I stepped down. I do not understand why it is considered superfluous rule. Political discussion caused considerable noise in this forum (and yes I was guilty of it), and it was a nessessary rule to install.
 
Meanwhile, back at the farm ....

Well, anyway. How ABOUT them psychedelic drugs! Now there's something we can all get behind!!! =D

I just can't imagine the direction my life would have taken without them, and this 4-HO-MiPT is indeed near the top of Sasha's babies, IMHO.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Meanwhile, back at the farm ....

georgiapoppy said:
It wasn't too intense visually. It was extremely intense from a mental perspective and was very challenging to keep a grip on myself and my thoughts.

-gp
Click to expand...

Thanks~\
Iv'e been there before.
cheers
 
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