4-aco-dmt (freebase vs fumarate)

[artsncrafts]

A friend is bringing me some 4-aco-dmt in a few days. She said it was the freebase form of it.

I know that the fumarate is the salt form of aco, and that its water soluble. From what I understand, the freebase is not.

Is there a way to put the freebase form onto blotter paper?
Is there an advantage of the fumarate other than the solubility?
She said that the fumarate was a lot more expensive, so I'm wondering if there's something else awesome about it.

Thanks!

 

[boiledfruit]

The Freebase will degrade faster apparently. However the freebase is also more potent by weight. ie - 25mg of FB will hit you harder than 25mg of fumarate.

 

[sekio]

You can't reasonably expect to fit more than 2mg of a water soluble compound on a "normal" sized blotter, 4-aco-dmt blotters would be terribly inefficient.

The major difference is the freebase is ~1.5x more potent by mass than the fumarate salt. That is - the fumarate is ~68% by weight aco-dmt freebase.

You can always make the freebase soluble by dissolving it in a mild acid, like juice, vinegar or soda. The reason that fumarate is commercially sold is because other salts of psilocin alkaloids don't crystallise very nicely.

 

[icekila]

The Freebase will degrade faster apparently. However the freebase is also more potent by weight. ie - 25mg of FB will hit you harder than 25mg of fumarate.

Ye, freebase is not very stable but fumarate could be kept for years if kept in cool, dry and dark place.

 

[sekio]

The freebase will stay good if packed in an inert atmosphere like argon or nitrogen, preferably stored in deep-freeze. (-20c)
For the layman though, degradation products are "only" 4-ho-dmt and acetates thereof, so it's not going to lose more than 5-10% potency even if it turns to goo.

 

[artsncrafts]

Thanks, this was both interesting and helpful.

At what point does the freebase start to degrade? Does it take months, days?

Sekio, if I were to dissolve the freebase in an acid, what would the advantage be? My original thoughts for the solubility had more to do with trying to fit the liquid onto a paper, but not if its not practical.

Thanks again!

 

[sekio]

The advantage of dissolving freebase in acid is that it's in solution and easy to measure/administer. Realistically this doesn't pose much of a benefit if you have a good scale, because compounds in solutions are considered to degrade more quickly than "dry" ones.

The degradation of 4-aco is dependent on storage, most reports report full gooification in 6-8 months, or less if stored in harsher conditions (hot car gloveboxes etc)

 

[artsncrafts]

So freezer storage would most likely be best?

How would one figure out the ratio of liquid to product? Would you need a graduated cylinder? Or is it one of those dose by dose things?
I have a milligram scale, so I'm not terribly worried about that, but for curiosities sake.

Does it literally turn to goo?

 

[sekio]

You can use as much water as you want, usually 4-aco is soluble to something liek 50mg/ml. Use all the accurate measuring tools you can get your hands on.