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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

3-MeO-PCP - New Experience - A Highly Intriguing Dissociative

morninggloryseed said:
Sounds like interesting material. Sucks to be out of the loop these days.
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heh i know how it feels :) i went on a 2 and a half year sabbatical from drugs (still am stricly speaking) and only recently started visiting this forum again; finding all sorts of wild things like cocaininated mdma, synthetic cannabinoids and these pcp analogues floating around
 
Coolio said:
The 3-methoxy doesn't sound any better than the 4-methoxy to me, just 10 or 20 fold more potent by weight. There isn't really anything newer than ketamine, MK-801, or 3-MeO- and 4-MeO-PCP that are being used by groups of humans recreationally.
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Oh, the additional opiate enhancement with a 3-methoxy group makes all the difference. Much reduces incidences of Red Queen Logic occuring (those fucked up, twisted mental landscapes that eventually twist your mind so badly it hurts & begins to squeak! =D). much, much more user friendly. PCP, 4-methoxyPCP et al just mangle your psyche far too much to feel comfortable - & MK-801/dizocilpine, sends shivers down my spine just thinking about the stuff! =D
 
I find 4-MeO-PCP more user friendly than ketamine or nitrous oxide!
 
Regarding MK-801, is it this report that came to mind? Turned me off to say the least.

"Mk-801 is VERY wicked.. I could only describe this as the 'evil zombie effect' - my body keeps going but the brain isn't there. There are some 'holes' in my memory in the last 24hrs.. I woke up after almost no sleep and went shopping, wrote a list on my hand and now I can't read it, just nonsense.. I later did a 400µg dose (IM'ed)- did it do anything..? Or do I just not remember anything from it? I watched a dvd, and couldn't remember if I've ever seen it before. I do NOT like this experience. It's creepy, like jacob's ladder creepy.. I'm looking at the liquid and am seriously considering pouring it out.. I mean, the initial effect was somewhat euphoric, but people with lobotomies are often happy as well.

... When trying to sleep, the ear-ringing became particularly annoying. Unlike other such experiences, it's not 'random', so it was impossible to tune out. In fact, when I focus on it, there are voices. I've had this type of experience before, but the mk-801 version is quite different. For one, the voices have accents, tones and patterns that are clearly not mine.. They all seem to be in English, but then again, I'm tuning out what I don't understand, so I'm not sure what that's worth. Furthermore, the different voices seem to talk about different things, yet all of them are mostly meaningless. Some resemble radio like commentary, some are just repetitive mindless subvocalizations, like people talking to themselves. At one point, the sounds seemed to have some visual component to them, but it was very fuzzy and indistinct, more like an idea than a picture.

Let me add that this was 100% dysphoric. ... mk-801 is like having a television going in the next room without visuals, so the dialogue doesn't make sense."

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55729

I don't know how this effect can be explained considering dizocilpine is supposedly a selective NMDA-antagonist.
 
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Toxicity,well I don't know,after about 10 experiences so far, I'm fine,actually better than usual! Sure it is also building tolerance,not sure how long I have to wait to reproduce the fantastic 6mg trial.Somehow self limiting as I just don't wanna lose it ...

I'm no big fan of dissociatives either so it came as a surprise that it went so well with me.Probably because it isn't really dissociative and not so disabilitating as PCP etc.Or did you hole on the 15mg i.m. f&b?
The lucidity you keep throughout the experience is a big plus for me.

B9, you didn't have many disso experiences before either?Just curious re: tolerance etc.Btw,the best experiences I had were with 6mg and 8mg! More COULD cloud the subtle other effects, starting to look like a trend maybe.With the higher dosages I actually didn't experience more,just a few side effects becoming apparent.Maybe simply its i.m. that is the way to go?

OR,Preference must be age related,bulby is a senile over his 40's =D and I'm getting 40 next March.Ah only with age you start to be a connaisseur of French Wines...

I'm reminded of that line in PIHKAL under MDMA: "MDMA intrigued me because everyone I asked,answered the question, "what's it like?" in the same way "I don't know". "what happened? "Nothing".And now I understand those answers.I too think nothing happened.But something seemed changed.Before the window opened completely,I had some somatic effects ... "

Hear: 3-MeO-PCP is nothing overwhelming,nothing jumps at you,nothing blows your mind away like your first 200mg MDMA,LSD,smoked speed or K hole experience.It asks you to engage yourself with it like an old Bordeaux.Its IMHO most precious property is that it provides a,well,sort of buddhist state of mind-you just see what is,no past,no future exists,just the beauty of the now.Just a clean clear mind,leaving all the burdensome attachments away for a few hours, letting you focuse on whats going on,in your brain or around you.Sometimes,even nothing at all, IS.

Can Nirvana be far away???
 
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Maybe I should be more worried about the seductive effect of the drug... :p
 
And we don't know how females react to it,so far only tested in males .
 
I'm no big fan of dissociatives either so it came as a surprise that it went so well with me.Probably because it isn't really dissociative and not so disabilitating as PCP etc.Or did you hole on the 15mg i.m. f&b?
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Overall I'd say it has limited dissociative activity ie upping the dose to 15mg IM did not produce anything like a k-hole, In fact, the 15mg dose didn't feel much different to the 8mg one other than producing residual weirdness. It did however increase the day after dopaminergic hypervigilance effects to an uncomfortable degree, verging on paranoia (a teenage couple sat in the seat behind me on a bus - despite there being hardly anyone else on the bus - which resulted in a state where I had to make a concious effort not to turn round & scream "fuck off and sit somewhere else, you're doing my crust in" =D). I don't think any dose of this compound would produce a true hole like, totally sensory shutdown, experience as it has a very unusual 'stimulated sedation' type effect above 5mg. Doses just over 5mg (5-10mg range) did produce one very noticable effect in me, namely a state of what I can only describe as hypersexuality, which while being even more pronounced that the libido boosting effects of MDPV (yes, hornier than MDPV! 8o ), wasn't accompanied by an obsessive urge to act on them, a la MDPV ( it was more of a Sean Connery - James Bond era quietly confident increase in libido rather than the bulging eyed, sex fiend MDPV effect - if anybody can recall the Les Dawson character, Cosmo Smallpiece, that's MDPV as opposed to the 007 suaveness from 3-methoxyPCP! =D).

At a guess, I'd reckon the more calm state is due to the increased opiate-like influence. As well as turning the bulging eyed, sweaty sexual deviant persona that comes with MDPV's over the top dopaminergic activity into a much more socially acceptable calm inner knowing confidence in such matters, it also had a fair helping of ketamine's unique brand of psychedelic insight; this also was far less confusing/disorientating during & after the experience (very little of the post ketamine,"you've been temporarily stripped of at least 50 IQ points' mindset). It definitely will not suit every dissociophile (wa-hey - did I just come up with a new word? =D =D)as I'd imagine people desiring the mystical K hole state will be disappointed it lacks the total removal from reality & those who like the low dose recreational wobbliness of ketamine will find it too clear headed, but it does have a certain je ne sais quoi that I found rather likeable (a bit too likeable, in fact, something I'm going to have to be vigilant about as I know I have a bit too much fondness for both opiates & dissociatives for my own good)dissociatives)
 
hugo24 said:
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B9, you didn't have many disso experiences before either?Just curious re: tolerance etc.Btw,the best experiences I had were with 6mg and 8mg! More COULD cloud the subtle other effects, starting to look like a trend maybe.With the higher dosages I actually didn't experience more,just a few side effects becoming apparent.Maybe simply its i.m. that is the way to go?

OR,Preference must be age related,bulby is a senile over his 40's =D and I'm getting 40 next March.Ah only with age you start to be a connaisseur of French Wines...



Can Nirvana be far away???
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My tolerance to pretty much all drugs was at a lifetime low when I took this substance. I think I'd taken ketamine once this calender year, about 10 weeks ago. I've taken MDMA once & LSD twice & had a 2 week binge on cannabis codeine & morphine back in March.That is the sum total of my drug intake since 1st of January 2009. As to experience with dissociatives, well I've taken ketamine heavily in the past, basically for months on end, but ended up finding it somewhat boring so I stopped. I still use it occassionally and indeed had some a few hours after the 3meo PCP. It seemed more potent & longer acting after the 3meoPCP, but then again judgement in these matters is a fine art always subject to some variability.

Preference must be age related ? This is clutching at straws I'm afraid to say, my age exceeds most folks on this board :) Perhaps if it claimed the effect was IQ related I would go along with it ;).


Can Nirvana be far away ? Surely not ! I thought it was always behind me but every time I turn it's just too quick for me.
 
Preference must be age related ? This is clutching at straws I'm afraid to say, my age exceeds most folks on this board Perhaps if it claimed the effect was IQ related I would go along with it .
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Or possibly that you still retain an element of being a big kid! =D =D


I find myself in agreement with Hugo about the Buddhist 'inner peace' thing. Just totally removes those niggling little voices that are the neurotic outpourings of the self critical facility of my psyche (y'know the ones that make you question your abilities in spite of the fact that you know you're quite compitent in certain skills/abilities).
 
Hopefully I shan't ever lose that element at least not completely. :)


It's maybe horses for courses & some people are out & out euphoria seekers & some like to get fucked up - this substance achieves neither - yes it's pretty relaxing & there are mild (IMO) visual effects but the things I tend to look for in a drug is missing with this one. I didn't giggle or laugh my socks off like a schoolgirl, nor did I get that ecstatic bodyload one can get from DPT/DMT/LSD/ETC my thoughts were as shallow as usual ( you really don't want to try & imagine) I was kind of zoned out while remaining perfectly lucid with minor motor discoordination but not of the order of ketamine. I found the visuals from standard PCP far superior to 3meoPCP & if the muscle tension aspect of PCP could be removed it'd be a class drug.
Anyway enough is enough I'll stop carping on & someone please pass me some DMT.;)
 
For such things as psychotherapy, I think this has so much potential. You can talk about things in your life that normally trigger a cascade of emotions in a clear & calm way. MDMA has the same capacity, but I find MDMA to produce a very forced,"you will be happy" state of mind that has a feel of being artificial - yes I want to hug people, but if Hitler or Stalin walked in I'd hug them as well - not very discriminating. 3-MeOPCP on the other hand allows you to retain your usual bullshit filter that is absent with MDMA.

So far, the only drug combinations I can voice any opinion on are with cannabis (very nice - cannabis psychedelia without the usually ever present possibility that it could all turn very wrong & anxious) and DMT (lowish 30mg IM with 5mg 3-MeOPCP) which had elements/aspects of the psychedelic experience that I'd never imagined existed. Couldn't even begin to describe the state due to my own poverty of vocabulary other than to say imagine the film 'Being John Malkovitch' being rewritten to 'Being the Dalai Lama'! =D =D.

Could this possibly be a model pharmacophore for sartori? ( always leave the reading audience with one last suitably cryptic utterance! =D =D)
 
Just something to add - I have just tried a tester dose (1mg) of 3-hydroxyPCP & it's not something I'm going to repeat. O-demethylation of codeine to morphine produces a drug which is subjectively much more pleasant to consume (codeine is OK, but isn't a patch on morphine). Seems to me that the opposite is true regarding arylcyclohexylamines
 
What does that mean F&B, the opposite is true?

And have you heard of anyone who has tried 3-HO-PCP higher than 1mg?
 
^ In that the compound with the phenolic OH group is generally the more potent, when compared with the O-methyl ether, when it comes to classical opiate type drugs (morphine vs codeine, dihydrocodeine vs dihydromorphine etc).

As for the 3-OH stuff, was just mostly physical symptoms (muscle tension) etc. No doubt others who have tried it will chip in with their observations as well
 
My first 1mg dose of 3-HO-PCP produced mostly placebo effects,but then, I was sure something went on.

4mg (2x2mg spaced by an hour) lead to a weak opiate nodding,nausea and some coordination problems,altough the intensity was still close to what a blank can do under the right circumstances.I got the impression though that it could be a long laster.

6mg taken at once yielded then a quite strong but uncomfortable painful dissociative state-well I wanted to find out its analgetic effects and took it when having a lumbago.Maybe the peak of the lumbago coincided exactly with the drugs peak but it surely was in no way analgetic,jesus my back hurt!This of course affected the mindset on its own plus I got a feeling like I'm going to faint ie everything around me started to drown in white,the colors faded away ("we fade to grey" you know that song?One of the best 80ties btw!).Oh,one paper has it mostly as an opiate antagonist,hmmm.

f&b's comparison of Ketamin and Tiletamin with Single Malt Whisky vs. industrial spirit came to my mind,only that this felt like methanol forerun-the usual effects are there but you're sure when going higher you'll turn blind or whatever bad thing.Something just didn't feel right.And it then looked like it has a very steep dose response curve,but read on.

Well I tried it at 15mg,three spaced 5mg doses (only went higher when 5mg did nothing after about 65min!),basically it was inactive! Some stimulation noted (heart rate went up),a strange opiate effect (caveat:I don't know opis exactly, tram and once M),vertigo,I was tired,a nasty dry coughing was also apparent and tight head muscles.Hard to judge its clear duration,maybe a tad longer than its MeO cousin,sleep went well and the next day was okay,no bad aftereffects luckily.

Theres obviously an extreme variation in bioavailability as its in-vitro activity on the NMDA receptor is very high,check out also in ADD a short report of its pyrrolidin analog which also proved to be inactive up to 70mg orally(!).All in all,its a shit drug you can bury deep with the other RC zonks.
 
really interesting to see these PCP family members making their way onto the scene. Its definitely something that has been ignored for the most part.

I am wondering about combining the 3-meo with the 4-meo Pcp. Perhaps they compliment eachother somehow.
 
3-MeOPCP is quite unlike any other dissociative I've taken in that it is remarkably clear headed and seems mostly free of the amnesiac properties of ketamine, tiletamine, PCP etc, It also (to me at least) seemed a lot less likely to produce a confusional state/delerium that I freq encounter on dissociatives. What really makes it stand out in my eyes thouigh is it's capacity for dissolving internal psychological barriers, making it very easy to be totally honest & truthful (& believe me, I've got plenty of those aforementioned barriers - probably due to the catholicism effect!), even concerning difficult topics/issues. Because of this, I'd be inclined to see it's relationship to other classic dissociatives as being similar to the relationship between MDA/MDMA and classic psychedelics; hence my comments about it's potential as a theraputic tool.

Only thing that leaves me a little concerned is neurotoxicity issues seeing as how it's so closely related to PCP - which means I think an even better bet would be the ketamine analogue with the 3-methoxyphenyl group ( 2-(3-methoxyphenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone ) as I believe the magical trancendence properties are very closely linked to the 3-methoxy group & it's increased opiate-like activity
 
As to tearin down those barriers.. That sounds excellent. I personally find DXM did this for me. It kinda removed me from my emotions, allowing you to think clearly and without any other thoughts clouding your mind.

Thats what I love about dissociatives.
 
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