• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

2016 American Presidential Campaign

Status
Not open for further replies.
While I do agree that Hillary has changed her stance at times when it is convenient for her to do so, I do think that a certain amount of this is to be expected. She IS a politician. If she didn't change her viewpoints in response to a changing social environment, that would actually make her a poor politician. Bernie is certainly much firmer about what are his principles and what you are getting when you vote for him. However, it stands to reason that his lack of pandering is in part why he did not defeat Clinton in more areas than he did. For example, he doubled down on using the term socialist to refer to himself at a time where everyone believed that a socialist would never be elected. If he had attempted to mitigate the use of that word, I could have seen his campaign going a lot more smoothly. Instead, he stuck to his guns and won what is a respectable number of votes given his platform. I applaud him for what he did accomplish, however I do not think he ran his campaign optimally, and he certainly did not capture all of the votes that he could have won with a slightly more inclusive platform, which in the end costed him the nomination.
 
I don't think he would have the support he does now if he had ran his campaign like you're suggesting. Votes and real support are two different things. Case in point: Hillary Clinton has more votes and more delegates and I still fully expect her to lose the nomination.
 
i understand that and it is different. my comment was aimed more at socko's "My point is changing your official position is a form of dishonesty..."

alasdair

Gotcha. My bad. I was just kind of skimming since the post you were responding to was so long and wasn't reading closely enough.
 
In what sense did Obama continue the policies of Bush? Foreign policy? Economic policy? Social policy? I'm not seeing it but am interested in how you see the policies as related. A certain amount of continuation is inevitable as presidents do not get a blank state from which to operate, however I do not believe that is what you are getting at.

I was largely speaking to foreign and national/security policy/war on terrorism, for the most part, but when you look at it, there's not a terribly significant amount of difference anywhere (some economic changes, of course, but many of which might have been made by any president in the wake of 2008, and Obama went nowhere near far enough in expurgating the special privileges and influence of the bankers.) Obama individuated himself little from his predecessor save on some superficialities and a great amount of pandering to identity politics (sadly the latter resulting in perhaps one of the weakest successful nominee for Supreme Court Justice in living memory, the "wise Latina"); the one thing that I can praise Obama for is ever so slightly questioning Netanyahu/the Israelis on some of there most blatant wrongdoings: he goes nowhere near far enough, but he inches in the correct direction, he still fails to realize, or act upon the idea, that the US special relationship with the Jewish state and the policies of the latter itself are by and large the root of the vast majority of the contemporary evils in the reason. Criticizing Zionism or the influence of Israeli and/or Jews, anywhere, of course, is implicitly (when not explicitly) forbidden, and political suicide, but it's our only hope and I digress.

But even more than specific policies, and far more importantly, the "imperial presidency" and rule by bureaucracy and executive fiat. Bush expanded this immensely; Obama has expanded it even more. We can expect Hilary to continue the trend. Trump, probably as well, but more unpredictably; Sanders is the only one who might buck this trend but on the other hand he might wield the same power to effectuate social and economic policy changes vis-à-vis the minimum wage and similar issues. As is said about making changes in parliamentary procedure, these sorts of shifts in the balance of power are sort of nuclear option dangerous in that they do not confine themselves to the makers of the change, but to their successors regardless of the differences between them.
 
^ so a politician should not be allowed to change their mind for any reason?

alasdair

It is as GM said,
She's done more than that. She's flip-flopped on almost every major issue when it's politically convenient for her. The timing of these switches make it painfully obvious they're not due to a genuine change of heart.
Her flip flops, like her marriage after the Monica Lewinsski affair, give the impression of being done out raw political ambition rather than a genuine change of heart. We really don't know what makes up her core beliefes. There is nothing sincere about her. Maybe if you go back to her early childhood, you learn that she was a hard core "Goldwater Girl," after the Republican presidential candidate who makes the Bushes look like Democrats.

Of course politics involves comprimise and adaption to changing circumstances but Clinton takes it to an extreme. Both extremes are bad. The other extreme is adhering to a rigid political ideology under Fascism or Maoism for example.

Maybe a basball example will help clarify. You cannot be both a Chicago and a New York baseball team fan (sorry i cant be bogthered to look up the names of the teams)-- as Clinton was shown to claim to be in a video someone posted. She had a new, crisp NY baseball hat. I think it might have been able to turn inside out to reveal a Chicago logo.

Sanders has had a fairly consistent stance during his 50 year career. So has Reagan and the Bushes.
 
Last edited:
more trumpfail.

Trump’s veterans controversy goes from bad to worse

It no doubt seemed like a good idea at the time. In January, Donald Trump was in the middle of a spat with Fox News, so the Republican presidential hopeful boycotted a debate ahead of the Iowa caucuses, instead holding a fundraiser in the Hawkeye State for veterans. The GOP candidate boasted that he’d raised $6 million for vets, and he’d contributed $1 million out of his own pocket.

The trouble, however, started two weeks ago, when the Washington Post started asking what happened to the money. The newspaper found that Trump did not raise $6 million as he’d claimed, and making matters worse, though his campaign said Trump had already made a $1 million contribution, that turned out not to be true, either.

Yesterday, the presumptive Republican nominee held a press conference to set the record straight, though as the Washington Post reported, it didn’t go well.
Donald Trump announced Tuesday that he had given away all the money he had raised four months earlier for veterans – and at the same time bitterly attacked the news media for pressing him to explain what he had done with the money.

“Instead of being like, ‘Thank you very much, Mr. Trump,’ or ‘Trump did a good job,’ everyone’s saying, ‘Who got it, who got it, who got it?‘ “Trump said during a news conference here at Trump Tower. “And you make me look very bad. I have never received such bad publicity for doing such a good job.”
Yes, it appears that in Trump’s mind, journalists are supposed to thank Donald Trump when he thinks he’s done something worthwhile.

But even putting that aside, whether the Republican presidential hopeful realizes it or not, yesterday’s explanation for the controversy arguably made matters worse, not better.

The AP reported yesterday, for example, “Phone calls to all 41 of the groups by The Associated Press brought more than two-dozen responses Tuesday. About half reported checks from Trump within the past week, typically dated May 24, the day The Washington Post published a story questioning whether he had distributed all of the money.”

In other words, four months after his big fundraiser, where Trump touted a tally that turned out to be untrue, Trump only started cutting checks to a variety of groups after the Washington Post published a story that made the candidate look awful.

At another point yesterday, Trump insisted, “I didn’t want to have credit” for the charitable donations, except we know that’s not true, either: he obviously did want credit, which is why he held a televised fundraiser in which he boasted about his self-proclaimed leadership on raising money for veterans. There’s also the matter of Trump not actually deserving credit for the $1 million his campaign was caught fibbing about.

Adding insult to injury, Trump insisted yesterday, “When you send checks for hundreds of thousands of dollars to people and to companies and to groups that you’ve never heard of, charitable organizations, you have to vet it.” He even demanded tax materials from the organizations before they became eligible for the money.

Even if we put aside the irony of Trump demanding tax materials from groups while he insists on keeping his own tax returns hidden from the public, and even if we overlook the fact that his operation doesn’t appear to have done an especially good job in vetting, there’s also the inconvenient fact that, according to the Trump campaign, the groups were chosen in advance in January – suggesting the organizations had already been vetted.

So where does that leave us? Trump said he’d raised $6 million for veterans, but that wasn’t true. He later claimed he never used the $6 million figure, but that wasn’t true. His campaign insisted Trump had contributed $1 million himself, but that wasn’t true. Trump said he “didn’t want to have credit” for the fundraising efforts, but that wasn’t true. He said he and his team were vetting groups they’d never heard of four months after the fact, but that wasn’t true.

And as of yesterday, all of this, the Republican candidate insisted, is the media’s fault. Indeed, Trump thinks journalists should be “ashamed” of themselves for scrutinizing his claims that turned out to be wrong.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but in a normal year, in a normal party, with a normal candidate, this is the sort of controversy that could end a campaign. Legitimate presidential hopefuls can get away with some dissembling and the occasional whopper, but Trump was caught telling obvious falsehoods about support for veterans’ charities.

If this happened to Hillary Clinton, is there any doubt it would be the #1 issue in the presidential race between now and Election Day? That every pundit in America would use this as Exhibit A in their takes on why Americans just can’t trust the Democrat?
lying about helping veterans? wow. commander in chief material? not. at. all.

alasdair
 
All Donald Trump has to do for his poll numbers to continue going up against Hillary is shut up and lay low. The idiot can't even manage to do that right.
 
how totally depressing is it that you're probably right?

if we were not in a bizarro world election, that kind of shit could (should?) end a campaign.

alasdair
 
no comment droppers? that's not like you.

your guy is lying about money, lying about helping veterans, trying to get publicity for something he didn't do and is complaining about the fourth estate doing its job. #notreallypresidentialmaterial

alasdair
 
Things could get interesting next week. A judge has ordered the IT Specialist that made a deal with the FBI to submit the details of the deal. He didn't say whether it would be made public, but most court filings are. If the deal has any thing about testifying against Clinton, we'll know she's fucked.
 
Also, I had no idea how much power the Freedom of Information Act had. This entire investigation is being done by a non-government organization called Judicial Watch. Apparently they got a court order to be able to force witnesses to give depositions and they're making everything public, unlike the FBI and their investigation. And all by using the the FOIA?? Crazy.
 
no comment droppers? that's not like you.

your guy is lying about money, lying about helping veterans, trying to get publicity for something he didn't do and is complaining about the fourth estate doing its job. #notreallypresidentialmaterial

alasdair
2nd time of asking, droppers. how do you feel about trump lying about helping veterans? i know you don't seem to care that he's pretty the worst liar to ever run for president but lying about helping veterans. surely you don't condone that?

alasdair
 
The State Department just announced the documents on Hillary and her involvement in TPP "won't be ready to release to the public" until late November right after the election. How convenient. The freedom of information request was placed last April and originally they said the documents would be released early this year. God I hate that woman.
 
I was a Trump supporter from the day he announced for the SOLE reason that he was not beholden to the 2 sides of the same establishment coin,that being the DNCe & RNCe.While he gave to and played the game with anyone it took "to get things done" I concluded that who else,at that level,resented establishment pay-to-play corruption more than him.IMO,the only way to save this country from the oligarchs is to burn both private party clubs to the ground and he seems to be the only one,in this election cycle,viable enough to get the ball rolling.That said,his ego and inability/refusal/stubbornness to pivot into general election mode has been most disappointing.This latest bit of petty,ego driven attack on the judge presiding over the Trump U. BS has caused me to question his commitment to actually be elected POTUS.I can never vote for Hillary,possibly the most corrupt and dangerous politician on Earth but if Bernie Sanders can somehow pull off a miracle and Trump continues to sabotage himself I will vote for Bernie,something that was unthinkable to me mere weeks ago.If Bernie loses to that witch I hope he runs as Independent because if Trump continues to implode Sanders has probably the best chance ever for a modern-day third party candidate to win the presidency.And if nothing else it will be the beginning of the end of a 2 party system that has been playing fast and loose with the HONOR of representing the American people.

Also,let's not forget Congress.I have been advocating to anyone who will listen to vote EVERY incumbent we can out of office in this cycle and the 2 to come in regards to cleaning out the Senate.Even if we can clear out the House this year it will send shock waves throughout the country,from State govenors to the local dogcatcher, that we're "mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore".This country is going to hell and all we hear about is co-ed,trans bathrooms and "opioid epidemic" bullshit DISTRACTIONS while the country is being systematically looted by off the chart,too big to jail dual-citizenship Zionists and their greed filled goy minions.There,I said it but the truth is out there if you're not afraid to look.The love of money is the root of all evil and it's about to take down one of history's great nations.
 
What a fitting cap to a Bullshit primary. All the major news outlets decide to INACCURATELY announce Hillary Clinton has clinched the nomination.

Which is 100% false. They're just trying to dissuade people from voting for Bernie tomorrow. What that tells me is that they're scared shitless about what might happen in California tomorrow. Either way, the media should be ashamed and held accountable for intentionally misleading voters.
 
What a fitting cap to a Bullshit primary. All the major news outlets decide to INACCURATELY announce Hillary Clinton has clinched the nomination.

Which is 100% false. They're just trying to dissuade people from voting for Bernie tomorrow. What that tells me is that they're scared shitless about what might happen in California tomorrow. Either way, the media should be ashamed and held accountable for intentionally misleading voters.

Yup Ive heard countless stories of the people who run the voting booths telling people "oh Bernie dropped out you should just vote for Hillary"

I hope Hillary voters stay home and Bernie people protests vote. THAT makes sense to me.

I keep hoping Bernie will finally just say fuck this shit I may have promised to do everything to help the candidate who wins against Trump, but I see how messed up the system is now I'm going to be Trumps VP and fight on the inside. This will never, ever happen more likely he will be Steins VP or just drop out entirely and support Hillary but a man can dream.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top