1st Cycle - Check/Flame

[auhsoJ]

So lately I've been getting tunnel vision in regards to my first cycle. I have several questions I haven't gotten from the net or Will's Anabolics book.

Now I now everyone is going to flame me but I'd like to do a dbol only cycle. I'm not "serious" enough to deal with needles, and the sheer convenience of popping a few pebbles sound good. (Plus it's cheap)

From reading up on the substance and user accounts I've learned that most of it will be water weight and 9/10 people will flame you if you don't stack with test. Despite this - there have been a handful who've suggested there's nothing wrong going dbol only. (Even Will's Anabolics book which suggests it as a beginners cycle.)

I plan on doing tamoxifen or clomid for PCT. (The former is harsher? The latter is cheaper.)

I don't actually have it in my hands yet.

PS: From what you gain from reading message boards it's as if dbol was the "creatine" of the AS world. No real muscle gain, just some water to help you power out the weights.

My stats:

22 5'10" 175lb 2 years of lifting experience (less than that of "doing it right" experience) Trained "natural" this entire time.

I'm at week five of Lyle McDonald "bulking" routine. Seeing some strength gains. For someone into "recreational bodybuilding" my nutrition is great. My water intake would increase for this. (not that it isn't enough already)

My concerns:

-Liver support; I've read that milk thistle is bunk. Should I do it anyway? (during cycle) Will's Anabolics recommends 'Liver Stabil' (I noticed you can buy it on the same site as a the book). I've heard it's best to "run" 'Liver Stabil' after the cycle - rather than during.

-Is "cholesterol support" necessary? (I plan on getting blood work before I start this)

-Hair-loss runs in my family. Many accounts have listed dbol as a great way to shed hair. I've read finasteride is pointless with dbol. (as it only produces trival amounts of DHT) I figured if anything I could shave it off and let it re-grow after. (if anything happens) Suggestions?

-Cardio; I don't own a car and typically bike 5-10 miles a day. I've read that dbol produces "painful pumps" and limits stamina. Should I take the bus? ...or just see what happens?

-Gains; Assuming most of what I gain is water how much am I excepted to retain? From reading other people you'd think it was 1/2 lb.

Thanks, fellas.

PS (PART 2):

Literally forgot to put dosing here. I'm going to go with 6 weeks. (as outlined in "example cycles" in Will's Anabolics book)

Week 1: 20mg/day
Week 2: 20mg/day
Week 3: 25mg/day
Week 4: 25mg/day
Week 5: 25mg/day
Week 6: 25mg/day

 

[maakshif]

So lately I've been getting tunnel vision in regards to my first cycle. I have several questions I haven't gotten from the net or Will's Anabolics book.

Now I now everyone is going to flame me but I'd like to do a dbol only cycle. I'm not "serious" enough to deal with needles, and the sheer convenience of popping a few pebbles sound good. (Plus it's cheap)

From reading up on the substance and user accounts I've learned that most of it will be water weight and 9/10 people will flame you if you don't stack with test. Despite this - there have been a handful who've suggested there's nothing wrong going dbol only. (Even Will's Anabolics book which suggests it as a beginners cycle.)

I plan on doing tamoxifen or clomid for PCT. (The former is harsher? The latter is cheaper.)

I don't actually have it in my hands yet.

PS: From what you gain from reading message boards it's as if dbol was the "creatine" of the AS world. No real muscle gain, just some water to help you power out the weights.

95% of weight is water and it will leave you looking like a water balloon

My stats:

22 5'10" 175lb 2 years of lifting experience (less than that of "doing it right" experience) Trained "natural" this entire time.

I'm at week five of Lyle McDonald "bulking" routine. Seeing some strength gains. For someone into "recreational bodybuilding" my nutrition is great. My water intake would increase for this. (not that it isn't enough already)

My concerns:

-Liver support; I've read that milk thistle is bunk. Should I do it anyway? (during cycle) Will's Anabolics recommends 'Liver Stabil' (I noticed you can buy it on the same site as a the book). I've heard it's best to "run" 'Liver Stabil' after the cycle - rather than during.

NAC/ALA are the only things that have shown to be worthwhile at keeping liver enzymes at bay

-Is "cholesterol support" necessary? (I plan on getting blood work before I start this)

necessary no, would it hurt to take precautions no

-Hair-loss runs in my family. Many accounts have listed dbol as a great way to shed hair. I've read finasteride is pointless with dbol. (as it only produces trival amounts of DHT) I figured if anything I could shave it off and let it re-grow after. (if anything happens) Suggestions?

dbol is already dht reduced so there is nothing that you can do to prevent hair loss if you are predisposed to it

-Cardio; I don't own a car and typically bike 5-10 miles a day. I've read that dbol produces "painful pumps" and limits stamina. Should I take the bus? ...or just see what happens?

dbol gave me some of the worst calf/shin pumps I've ever had....i could barely walk 100 ft without feeling like my entire lower legs were going to explode

-Gains; Assuming most of what I gain is water how much am I excepted to retain? From reading other people you'd think it was 1/2 lb.

I would say that you would keep closer to 2 lbs if you are lucky, but you will lose nearly all of the strength when the water is gone

Thanks, fellas.

PS (PART 2):

Literally forgot to put dosing here. I'm going to go with 6 weeks. (as outlined in "example cycles" in Will's Anabolics book)

Week 1: 20mg/day
Week 2: 20mg/day
Week 3: 25mg/day
Week 4: 25mg/day
Week 5: 25mg/day
Week 6: 25mg/day

depending on the quality of the dbol 20-25 might not be enough, you might have to double that, but start low and adjust as necessary

some responses in bold^

I'm not a supporter of any oral only cycles, especially dbol only...test should always always always be the base of any and every cycle...you are shutting your natural production down with any exogenous hormones so you need the test in there to compensate for that and derivatives are not substitutes

are you going to use any AI's or HCG? dbol aromatizes heavily and your nuts will shrink, possibly, and your natural production will be shutdown

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

25mg dbol for 6 weeks and up your protein to 400g and train hard you'll be fine with a good PCT. your diet will dictate gains. The drug will help with increasing your leverage rates (through water retention since it makes your body hold sodium/potassium).

You'd make better gains with a 6 week cycle of testosterone propionate.

 

[auhsoJ]

some responses in bold^

I'm not a supporter of any oral only cycles, especially dbol only...test should always always always be the base of any and every cycle...you are shutting your natural production down with any exogenous hormones so you need the test in there to compensate for that and derivatives are not substitutes

are you going to use any AI's or HCG? dbol aromatizes heavily and your nuts will shrink, possibly, and your natural production will be shutdown

I was actually wondering about this. Is an AI nessecary or is it just speedy recovery and ...if you plan on getting your dong on? I assume a speedy recovery might mean less depressive "downtime".

2lb? That's not worth it. Like most things it's going to vary per person. I've heard people claim they keep up to 10lb. I'm just going to have to try it or "get serious" with test.

25mg dbol for 6 weeks and up your protein to 400g and train hard you'll be fine with a good PCT. your diet will dictate gains. The drug will help with increasing your leverage rates (through water retention since it makes your body hold sodium/potassium).

You'd make better gains with a 6 week cycle of testosterone propionate.

What PCT do you recommend? Does it ultimatly matter how my body responds? The stronger stuff if I reactly negatively, etc. My sensitivity is unknown so I'll have to try it out.

I read that tamoxifen is harsher at suppresstion. Clomid less so. The actual point of anti-estrogen is to prevent side-effects. If you're not getting them then dosing isn't nessecary? (May due harm?)

Diet dictates gains. Got it.

The dramatic strength gain and loss I've read about seems overly dramatic. There's such a thing as muscle memory, right? Won't doping positively effect strength/gains when you go back to lifting naturally? (Not drastically as being on a cycle but somewhat?)

Thanks guys.

 

[scouse.rob]

So lately I've been getting tunnel vision in regards to my first cycle. I have several questions I haven't gotten from the net or Will's Anabolics book.

Now I now everyone is going to flame me but I'd like to do a dbol only cycle. I'm not "serious" enough to deal with needles, and the sheer convenience of popping a few pebbles sound good. (Plus it's cheap)

From reading up on the substance and user accounts I've learned that most of it will be water weight and 9/10 people will flame you if you don't stack with test. Despite this - there have been a handful who've suggested there's nothing wrong going dbol only. (Even Will's Anabolics book which suggests it as a beginners cycle.)

I plan on doing tamoxifen or clomid for PCT. (The former is harsher? The latter is cheaper.)

I don't actually have it in my hands yet.

PS: From what you gain from reading message boards it's as if dbol was the "creatine" of the AS world. No real muscle gain, just some water to help you power out the weights.

My stats:

22 5'10" 175lb 2 years of lifting experience (less than that of "doing it right" experience) Trained "natural" this entire time.

I'm at week five of Lyle McDonald "bulking" routine. Seeing some strength gains. For someone into "recreational bodybuilding" my nutrition is great. My water intake would increase for this. (not that it isn't enough already)

My concerns:

-Liver support; I've read that milk thistle is bunk. Should I do it anyway? (during cycle) Will's Anabolics recommends 'Liver Stabil' (I noticed you can buy it on the same site as a the book). I've heard it's best to "run" 'Liver Stabil' after the cycle - rather than during.

-Is "cholesterol support" necessary? (I plan on getting blood work before I start this)

-Hair-loss runs in my family. Many accounts have listed dbol as a great way to shed hair. I've read finasteride is pointless with dbol. (as it only produces trival amounts of DHT) I figured if anything I could shave it off and let it re-grow after. (if anything happens) Suggestions?

-Cardio; I don't own a car and typically bike 5-10 miles a day. I've read that dbol produces "painful pumps" and limits stamina. Should I take the bus? ...or just see what happens?

-Gains; Assuming most of what I gain is water how much am I excepted to retain? From reading other people you'd think it was 1/2 lb.

Thanks, fellas.

PS (PART 2):

Literally forgot to put dosing here. I'm going to go with 6 weeks. (as outlined in "example cycles" in Will's Anabolics book)

Week 1: 20mg/day
Week 2: 20mg/day
Week 3: 25mg/day
Week 4: 25mg/day
Week 5: 25mg/day
Week 6: 25mg/day

i agree

 

[maakshif]

I was actually wondering about this. Is an AI nessecary or is it just speedy recovery and ...if you plan on getting your dong on? I assume a speedy recovery might mean less depressive "downtime".

AI's are used to control estrogen while on cycle, though Aromasin can be used during PCT as well, but not Letro or Arimidex..keeping estrogen under control or even driving it down a small amount before PCT will help with recovery though

2lb? That's not worth it. Like most things it's going to vary per person. I've heard people claim they keep up to 10lb. I'm just going to have to try it or "get serious" with test.

if they kept 10 lbs then they got fat, imo, which is very easy to do on dbol


What PCT do you recommend? Does it ultimatly matter how my body responds? The stronger stuff if I reactly negatively, etc. My sensitivity is unknown so I'll have to try it out.

i would recommend nolva at 20mg/ed in the morning and clomid at 50mg/ed before bed for 4 weeks

I read that tamoxifen is harsher at suppresstion. Clomid less so. The actual point of anti-estrogen is to prevent side-effects. If you're not getting them then dosing isn't nessecary? (May due harm?)

nolva and clomid don't suppress anything...they attach to estrogen receptors in breast tissue to keep estrogen from being able to bind and activate, thus preventing gyno....Letro and Adex work in a similar manner

Diet dictates gains. Got it.

The dramatic strength gain and loss I've read about seems overly dramatic. There's such a thing as muscle memory, right? Won't doping positively effect strength/gains when you go back to lifting naturally? (Not drastically as being on a cycle but somewhat?)

Thanks guys.

responses in bold^

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

If I were gonna PCT (which I never am) it would go something like this. It would take about a half a year to come off completely. Tren/Mast would be used to solidify gains then Test P would be used to taper off gradually. Estrogen would be controlled the entire time with aromasin. No breast cancer drugs would be used.

week 1-12 Test E (cycle dosage) + estrogen control
week 13-18 Tren + MAST + Test E (100mg HRT dose) + HCG + prolactin/estrogen control
week 19-22 Test P 250mg/week + HCG + estrogen control
week 23 Test P 150mg/week + HCG + estrogen control
week 24+ estrogen control + D-asparitic acid + tribulus + dopamine precursors + GH

If I wasnt recovered in 12 weeks (around week 36) I would get on HRT for life.