16 months on pods - Tapering completely in 4 weeks (log)

NO and thank you god for that one. I planned it for right after school when I'd be "in between" work, but I'm not actually looking for a job till the tapers over.

It helps prob about 10,000% imo.
 
Good luck we are pullin for ya. It is a hard job you are doing I give you much credit..I have been free from the opiate grip for 5 years...not saying i don't have issues, but running my ass off just to maintain, was not livin to me it, was a fuckin down right nightmare..GOOD LUCK, STAY STRONG.
 
im on day 4 . 2.5 mg of Sub . wanna use still . mainly due to my depression /anxiety/boredom
 
im on day 4 . 2.5 mg of Sub . wanna use still . mainly due to my depression /anxiety/boredom
look this day is almost behind you you can do it you need to keep your mind occupied. Do you smoke cigg.? If so they say lighten up on them they get in the way of detox. Also try some ;)benadryl helps for anxiety.
 
i smoke cigs ,wanna quit.......................talked to dude from AA who was real jerk to me
 
Day 12!!!!

We're getting so close I can't believe I'm basically down to 1 pod now or 8gms (my pods tend to weigh around 8-12gms each so thats why I say 1 pod). It DEFINITELY has been tricky towards the smaller doses. Mainly because you do start feeling some more consistent minor wds, and you always think they can get worse at any minute but they never really do.

I just can't get over how much of a mind fuck this entire process use to be for me. I can NOT believe I actually tried to take my life once before after I kept relapsing and decided to swallow 1600mg of barbituates with no barbituate tolerance at all, it was the first time taking them. I had read something like 1000mg is a fatal dose and it didn't even come close to killing me. Its NOW I finally realize why I didn't die, because I'm too fucking strong lol.
Its just so weird how life changes sometimes. A few years back the idea of taking myself of opiates almost drove me to my grave, but now its like its not even a big deal. This concept of tapering I think can really be applied to any opiate addiction, and to any opiate addict, to help take them off their DOC with as little harm as possible. I just feel good today I really do. I feel clean, strong, clear minded. Not depressed, motivated to do things. I've been working out more then I ever have in years, running about 10 miles every week.

Things are just going really good for me and I'm so appreciative of so many different things in my life. But lets do a brief on the current situation:

Today is 10gms, just finished it. I took 25mg seroquel last night just to make me a little drowsy which it did well. I did manage to finally get more sleep last night as the last couple of days watching my parents dogs has been a nightmare for sleep.

And THIS is pretty huge for me right now but my actual withdrawal symptoms (remember they are always there but always barely noticeable) have seemed to mutate from hot flashes and sweats to just RLS. I kinda prefer the RLS even though I slept easier with the hot flashes/sweats. Its just during the day the hot flashes use to get really aggravating with the goosebumps and chills as it made me wanna rip my skin off. RLS just makes me wanna kick things so I'll take that instead, plus doing cardio with RLS symptoms is VERY condusive to weight loss lol.
I was thinking last night how pissed I was for buying kratom, when I asked myself "why the hell didn't you just buy codiene"? I think codiene would have actually been a perfect DOC for a taper like this. I can withdraw from codiene all day long but its always been a very affective pain killer for me, so it would have been so much smarter to stock up on codiene rather than subs and kratom. I think if I had a chance to do this again I would have just got codiene and nothing else. If I had codiene I'd jump off the pods right now and I have a feeling it would work great.

Overall I'm not even tempted in the slighest to use. I think its mainly because pods stop getting you high after a certain point and just make you nod. There was a rush the first few times I used pods, an outright explosion of brain endorphins, but after a short while its just mild euphoria and feeling warm and numb and somewhat content. But right now I feel warm, am naturally euphoric, and can FEEL which is more a high than being numb to the world imo. I'm not really cravings pods at all so I'm psyched about that. I may be able to keep this up for long term once I'm off completely. And than I can spit in all the faces of the drug counselors who say its impossible for an addict to take themselves off their DOC, BULLSHIT. Noone will ever tell me what I can't accomplish in this world.
And I forgot to mention I was helping my brothers daughter get something from the cupboards (peanuts) yesterday and noticed both him and his wife had refilled their oxycodone that they NEVER take. He literally takes like 1 every 3 months whenever his knee acts up and I always use to pocket a few to have fun from time to time. I figured now would be a smart time to have a few so I got 4 of the weaker 5mg oxy. I'm not sure exactly what to do with them, but I'm thinking of saving them specifically for the jumpoff. I would have prefered codiene but a few oxy will def help make the jump off easier. That is if I don't wind up abusing them because I do have a craving to just take them all which is weird because I'm not tempted to abuse my DOC at all. Prob because I know my bodies physically addicted to one and THATS the one I need to be focusing on the most right now.
All and all everythings pretty freakn good right now and I'm happy with myself. Even though the end of the taper can be tricky I def feel more stable for some odd reason. And I think its because my bodies done withdrawing from the bigger doses. We'll just keep things moving and see how it goes I guess. Thank you everyone for all the support!


-Bo
 
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I just can't get over how much of a mind fuck this entire process use to be for me. I can NOT believe I actually tried to take my life once before after I kept relapsing and decided to swallow 1600mg of barbituates with no barbituate tolerance at all, it was the first time taking them. I had read something like 1000mg is a fatal dose and it didn't even come close to killing me. Its NOW I finally realize why I didn't die, because I'm too fucking strong lol.
Wow man that's some pretty heavy shit, glad that you made it through alive.

Once while withdrawing I was using a lot of phenazepam and slept for a long time and when I woke up I just kept on taking more phen trying to pass back out. It didn't work so I used a small dose of 1,4 BDO. BDO by itself can knock me out cold (and is very dangerous, I ran my car off the road thanks to the phen and BDO combo) and that's what it did this time. I lost conciousness and awoke to paramedics and police officers in my room. I'm like wtf!?!? I didn't even remember what I did I thought that I had health problems or something and had lost conciousness - I totally forgot about all the drugs I had taken.

I guess my mom found me unresponsive and ended up calling an ambulance out of fear. I survived without any real intervention from them (I think they slapped me a couple of times and I woke up) but who knows how close to death I really was? Maybe if I had poured another ml of BDO I'd be dead thanks to respiratory depression.

It was an inadvertent overdose but goes to show you that you aren't in your right mind while trying to cold turkey withdrawal :\
 
later day 12

Grrr Ok today did a complete and total 180. It started off as one of the best days of my taper, but ended pretty sour. For the first time I felt "lethargic", my body was very stiff and heavy, weighed down by gravity 10 fold.
My head is trying to hard to stay strong, and I've noticed I've been dissassociating A LOT lately, just thoughtless zoned out situations so I don't have to be pesimistic. I KNOW if I think at certain points of the day I can throw myself into a depression. So when I know I'm not feeling good I tend to not think at all or use my head, otherwise things get worse.

Hotflashes for some reason came back, they were gone for about 5 or 6 days. Goosebumps are back, my back is stiff. Today just all a sudden DID get difficult. I took an inderal for my blood pressure and 2 immodium to see if I'd feel any better. The inderal calmed me down a tad but I'm still hurting fairly well.
I had to tell myself about a hundred thousand times not to take the 4 oxies I have as if this gets worse and I don't have them things can get ugly. I also fear the seroquel I'm taking for sleep may be causing the lethargy, so its like now I have to either deal with being tired cause I can't sleep... OR should I pick lethargy and take a seroquel? Oh boy the choices.

I took 8gms today. I mean from 70gms thats a HUGE fucking deal, but jesus christ god you don't have to make the end of my taper so fucking hard like this. These doses are just NOT holding me over. Whats worse is the lower I get it seems the more hours I spend withdrawing. Withdrawals literally started right after I worked out today. My morning started off so fucking good too, I don't know why I'm so sick right now. My body should be getting use to these low doses, especially with the amount of working out I'm doing. My shins are in so much pain from all the running I've been doing, but it seems all I'm doing is burning off the last few miligrams of opium in my body and getting sick.

Ahh man fuck this I don't care. I'm taking 6gms tommorow fuck these fucking piece of shit flowers I am not staying at 8gm. I also found out today my trip is 2 days earlier then planned (the 14th) and my brother got rushed to the hospital like 2 hours ago from his heart. But I promise my day was as shitty as it could get before that. I didn't notice any change in mood when I got the news, because I don't have a lot of room to go any lower.

Plus I've had this nagging headache thats been stuck in between being a headache and not being one all fucking day. Like its just sitting there in a half way state and doesn't know if its wants to become a full out headache. I am not a happy camper right now. Goes to show even if your day starts of golden and great it can quickly become hell when opiates are leaving your body.
I just cross my fingers that I can make it through my 6gm dose tommorow with out taking the oxies or deciding to stick at 8gm. I'm just so worried if I'm not always dropping I'm not gonna make it quick enough for the trip. I can't be suicidal for this vacation, I'm trying so hard to squeeze out every drop of strength I have. Almost like all my wds just started today. Sorry for the bad news my fellow pod/opiate users. I've been fairly ok up untill this point.

For anyone contemplating a taper read my early day 12 and late day 12, thats how drastically your mood can change doing this I suppose.

edit: OMG, I just went back to read my morning post just to see how happy I really was, and noticed I took the wrong fucking dose today! OMG! This has to explain the pain I'm in. I seemed to have dropped from 13.5gm to 8gms in 1 day. No shit I'm ready to cry lol. G/damn it theres no fucking point of taking 2gms right now as its not gonna do a single thing for the wds. Wow I am so angry how did I miss this? I've been playing around with the dose so much lately I just guess I didn't notice. Now it looks like I should stay at 8 tommorow but man idk. We'll see how I feel tommorow I guess. I'm glad I at least figured that out before loggin out.. wow
 
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Hey man- I see you're doing really well on this taper. That's fantastic! You've really helped yourself out.

While reading your latest post, I couldn't help thinking one thought: Maybe very soon you should just jump off cold-turkey. You've gotten yourself waaayyyy down in terms of your dose. I've done a taper before and indeed it helps. However, even when you're done with your taper there will be some w/d to deal with. There's no avoiding this. Fuck the seroquel, the oxies, codeine, etc. You're just going to have to outlast this.

What I'm trying to say is that you might just be prolonging this whole process. If it were me- I'd wanna get this unpleasantness over with ASAP. The sooner you're off the opiates, the sooner you will be better- and INDEED you will get better. In my experience- after a month you might never know you even took opiates for so long. Your brain will likely be healed. Hell, in 2 weeks most of the bs will be reduced to mild nuisances.

I would just get down to business at this point, especially since you've weened yourself down from such a high dose. With you exercising, you'll be ok.

In any case- I wish you all the best.
 
It couldn't hurt to stick at 8 grams for an extra day since you messed up and dropped a little too much. Give yourself some time to stabilize a bit.
 
I agree with Quasi. In any case, stay strong, keep it up, you're doing great. (Day 2 for me, no sub/opiates. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...)

You scare me a little picking up the oxy, be careful brother!
 
Day 13

Thanks Jay, Quasi & TheSeeker, I appreciate the responses.

To TheSeeker I can't tell you I haven't considered just stopping but my family is def keen to a change in my behavoir over these last few weeks. My brother made the comment "dude you look like you lost 20lbs since last week" and I told him I lost 15lbs from all the cardio I've been doing, which is half way true. The other half is all the sweating I've been doing when I'm not doing cardio.
My mom also walked into the room when I was over her house the other day and I was kicking the sofa like a weirdo and then I started holding the sides of my head. She looked at me and just asked if I was getting sick and I told her no. But even tapering sometimes its hard to hide symptoms from my family. So I know if I jumped off it would just arise their suspicion more. I will be getting off real soon though just not with in the next 4 days.

To Quasi: what we were talking about on pm is all good. I'll pm you later with the details. And I wound up taking 6gms today not 8, but that honestly may change still I'm not sure.

To Jay: Thanks buddy but don't be scared. I've never liked oxies that much to be honest. I would be a lot more likely to abuse trams or pods because believe it or not I like the way they make me feel much more than oxies. Plus I'm never able to get more than a few every other month or so and it would be too much work to really get addicted to them.

Last night got rough. I didn't sleep a wink and I had looked at my clock and notice it was already 5am and I was in a great deal of pain by then. I took my 6gm dose that early and finally I wound up falling asleep like an hour after the dose. I woke up at noon so at least I got a few hours sleep. I find it pretty hilarious that even 6gms of pods is still affecting my body so strongly. I honestly didn't think it would let me sleep like that goes to show even small amounts of opium have profound affects on your body.
I didn't take a seroquel last night. I knew it wasn't gonna be enough to make me fall asleep after my messed up dose so I just delt with it. I WILL admit though I think the seroquel really just added a lot of bullshit side affects yesterday. Today I don't feel physically heavy like I did yesterday, I feel more tired in my head, like more fatigue than actual lethargy. But damn its only 1:30pm right now and I almost feel like the dose is started to wear off already. I just half these half way hot flashes that seem to be starting. So I'm gonna be in for a mess again tonight if I don't do something. I may dose kratom or I may make up 2gms of tea. But I still feel codiene could have made this so much easier. Trams cause terrible wds, sub takes over your body and has a tendency for abuse. Codiene does too but its just such a harmless and affective drug imo.

I've never seen someone make a thread about codiene wds. Somethings gonna have to change over the next few days so we'll see. The very end of the taper IS getting hard skipped dose or not. I have no energy today at all to work out and thats terrible. Shows that I didn't plan this taper as perfect as I thought. The idea was to stay well enough so I could work out everyday, and this is what i was fearing would happen. I'm gonna have to push myself like a mfkr if I decide to run and lift, but I'll update later and we'll see if anything changes.
 
hey man- I see that you want to keep all this on the DL and that's cool. Maybe a little while longer at a really low dose will help. I'm definitely no expert.

The bad news is that no matter how well you taper- there's going to be some w/d, albeit MUCH MUCH MUCH milder than jumping off 80 mg of pods (obviously). All I'm saying is that if you jump off soon- by the time your trip comes around you'll be standing tall- no shit. ESPECIALLY if you keep the cardio up.

My theory is that you're in my well known territory of w/d. I only pop enough pills for just long enough to get mild (but noticeable and annoying) w/d. I get depression, sweats and RLS like a motherfucker but I can at least catch some sleep with NyQuil. It sucks but after a week most of it has subsided and in 2 weeks I'm good. I think this is where you might be at now. You will not be sick but merely miserable. Exercise can be your friend in this phase- ESPECIALLY CARDIO.

This is, of course, just my experience. My advice would be to jump off sooner rather than later.

Again- all the best to you. Getting out of that opiate rut feels really good. There's alot of good work to do out there in the world.....
 
Well, since I dropped off the sub, I've been using kratom - and it helps a lot actually. So I would say give that a try (I mean you already have it, might as well see how it works for you.)

I don't think in our situations there is a way to plan the perfect taper. You have to plan for bumps in the road, and be willing to adapt. My taper from the pods was at most only annoying, but you know how much I slowed down when under 10g.

I'm envious of the amount of exercise you've been able to do. I'm still sore as hell from working out 2 days ago. Before I went on the pods I was hitting the gym like 5-7 days a week for the last half of 2009. Amazing how fast my body adapts to being doped up and lazy. Oh well, off the pods I'll get back in shape in no time.
 
Yeh thanks guys. I've been thinking real hard about why all a sudden the taper took a plummit and I came up with a new idea that seems very promising.
I actually think my scale is not measuring doses accurately because its a spring scale and I just got done reading about them.

I would have gotten an electric one if I planned on using pods longer, but I figured the spring would be good enough for the taper. It seems they're somewhat accurate for measuring heavier doses, but when you try to measure really fine intervals, they can be off by up to 5 gms. A lot of people think because the springs actually stretch out from heavier measurments and it winds up throwing off the smaller ones.

After reading this I took out my last 3 doses to look at them closely with my eyes. And they didn't look right. So I took out a teaspoon to measure and realized by volume something is definitely wrong, it would take a bit to explain why but I basically added up the variances between 3 different doses and noticed how off it was (simple statistics trick I learned).

I really think my problem is nothing but this scale I'm using. I'd take a picture of it you hang them from a hook and the have another hook on the bottom that you attach the bag to. I should have known this might create problems. So I'm gonna go out and see if I can get a more sensitive scale. If I can't I'm gonna taper my last few doses by teaspoons. There is something def up with this scale though. Even wilkepedia says the "not legal for trade" mark means the theory used for the consistency of the springs isn't always reliable in terms of actual weight.

This definitely seems like it may be presenting issues at the weights I'm using now. So I def need to get this fixed asap.
 
Bo - yup, that could be an issue with the spring scale. I could see those not being very accurate at lower doses.

Jake - the key to getting off any opiate (pretty much ANY drug) is to taper down your dose. Takes dedication and willpower, but tapering down gives your brain time to adjust to lower doses. If you want to start a thread about your mission to get off subs, let me know and I'll give you advice as best I can. How fast and how much you taper depends on how long and how much you've been using your drug of choice. Seems like a lot of variables, but it's not that hard to figure out once you get the concept. The willpower to stick to taper schedule is another thing - but if you've gone through withdrawal before that will give you a good reasons to. I'll give you any advice I can, PM if you want or if you start a thread of your own (and the suboxone megathread has a ton of people who can help)
 
Ive started lot of threads, they got mad i started so many , but anyway i will PM you . I basically have been on dope/subs for about a year, usually a low sub dose, 2-3 mg a day ................i have 45 subs so have to taper off with that since i have no way to get more
 
2-3mg of suboxone isn't really that low of a dose if you're thinking about quitting.

I guess it is if you're comparing it to someone who was taking 8mg+ a day, but I would never try to jump off 2mg.

I'd work on getting used to 2mg and being at that same dose for 2-3 days, and then trying to work your way down from there. If you don't want it to be painful, I wouldn't suggest jumping more than .2mg at a time and sometimes you'll have to stay at the same dose for a few days. Try to dose at the same everyday too. I'd try to go 2mg, 2mg, 2mg, 1.8mg, 1.8mg, 1.7mg, 1.6mg, 1.5mg, 1.5mg, and so on down to .1mg.

You can make bigger or quicker jumps than that if you feel comfortable. There's a lot of variables that have to be taken into consideration.


Suboxone is powerful. Even if you're taking a very low dose of around .2mg a day, you're still going to notice some effects when you stop taking it altogether. The lower you get the easier it is to get through these effects and they're much weaker than if you stopped at a higher dose. Some WD effects are completely non-existant.
 
Yeh I was talking to a friend who's been hooked on oxies for years and everytime I talk to him he says over and over how bad he wants to get off the shit.
Months ago we were going to do it together but we wound up being terrible influences on each other and started to actually use more together.

I saw him 2 days ago and I told him I'd been tapering for a couple weeks and how easy I thought it was. I mentioned that the best way for him to stop oxies was to just start tapering. He straight out told me he can't because he doesn't have the will power to do it. That anytime he's attempted he always winds up taking more oxy.

The core of really everything in life I think comes down to will power. I never considered myself someone who had much of it, but when I saw how envious he was that I was finally getting clean, it made me feel so good about myself. Even after I told him it was will power that he needed, he kept asking me "what my secret was". Its almost like he didn't even hear me. Like willpower didn't seem like something real to him.
When you use drugs for a long enough timeline, you've conditioned yourself SO MUCH to give into that instant gratification. Thats the ONLY force that really keeps drug addicts going. When they wanna feel good nothing will stop them, that primal part of their brain will find a way to get opiates into their body.
But theres another part of your brain that doesn't rely on instant gratification. It realizes things like investment are what brings happiness into your life. Denying temptation so you can have some substance in your life, something thats worth more than being high all the time.

People challenge themselves in so many different ways in life. Some people hike to alaska and fend in the wilderness. Others take themselves off drugs. All I can say is this taper has been a sort of life defining moment in my life. Not to say I'll be off drugs forever. But just to give myself the opportunity to see, that I CAN have willpower myself. It wasn't something I had to work for, it wasn't something I had to earn, it was just something I did.

Willpower is a very strange thing I think for drug addicts to understand. I think they think that just because they're on drugs they can't have any. But the FIRST day you make a decision to exercise will power, the second day you'll feel like you have it. It was literally that quick for me. I think you need to get the idea out of your head Jake that you NEED subs to hold your life together. When you taper your dose and start getting anxious, thats your addiction trying to sabatoge your recovery. That anxiety is your primal brain screaming "I WANT WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT IT", but you really need to use that part of your brain that denies what it wants. Its odd that this far into my taper, I can say I'm 100% sure theres NO FUCKING WAY I'm not getting clean. Once you get deep enough into will power, it becomes your new addiction. Right now I can wake up and take 100gms of pods, or I can exercise will power. Doing 100gms tommorow will only further ensure that a year from now I'm gonna hate the person I've turned into. While if I choose will power, I might actually like myself a year from now. Neglecting the fact that you have a choice in life, is exactly what your addiction needs to survive. Not having will power is literally the oxygen that keeps an addiction breathing. I just can't think of any single force so responsible for bringing good things into peoples lives. Watch the movie "Into the Wild", its a true story about a kid who throws his whole life away basically to just have a will. And even though he dies at the end, he dies with a smile on his face. Thats how I want to die, and if I keep giving into my reptilian brain, the one that wants what it wants, I'm never gonna have what **I** want, and thats just happiness. I think thats what it all comes down to in life.. unleashing your will to survive.
 
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