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Harm Reduction ⫸Should I Try HEROIN?⫷

It made us feel safe and numb to our growing pains in this fast-paced society.

It may be a lifelong struggle, but despite relapse, I know I can quit again if I did before. It's all about looking at the present rather than the future or the past. The brain always heals, the depression always subsides even if it takes a year. And I really believe surviving the struggle is a character-building experience despite common perception.

I read an old proverb the other day to the effect of "The great rock sculptures of the desert were formed by sandstorm. In the same way, one's character is shaped by the challenges of life."
 
The brain doesn’t always heal. Heroin will be at some point The only thing you look forward to.
I know that you may be feeling this is okay now but as it grows inside it also breaks everything outside.

I’ve used heroin and other opiates for 20+ years. I had mone annd since I was pretty discreet about it I managed to survive for that long. But when I look back and still today, there’s not a single moment I don’t regret knowing more of what it would be like.

Denial and tolerance made it possible for me to keep doing it until I died. Thank God I an almost lethal. That was the beginning of the end. I am sober for a couple of years and it’s not okay. It fuc**ed up my entire life.
 
I relapsed after 3 weeks. I was recovering very quickly and taking lots of health supplements, etc... at 2 weeks I was practicing guitar for 4 hours a day again, something I am incapable of while using.
I used for 4 days and around 150 - 200mg oxy each day for those 4 days and now I am left an empty shell. I am done with the relapse. It is hard for me to think straight and normally logic is my thing. I very clearly don't feel anywhere near as bad as I did when I initially kicks C/T. Back then it was a week long suicidal nightmare and I wouldn't have been able to get out of bed but I can at least move around today... cook food, drink water, use the washroom in time, and I even drove to my buddies farm for a pound of grass to smoke (for personal use haha... this shit has traumatized me after so long) - in short it is not so bad apart from my brain feeling completely fried and devoid of ambition or soul. I could not play guitar like that right not as I am completely disconnected from everything but soullessness and pain. Felt like I lost my spirit. Heroin did encourage my guitar playing especially creativity for a few months when I first started, now I consider myself lucky I didn't sell more of my equipment for dope.
Anyone know if I'm looking at another ten days of Hell? It really does not seem that way. It is 4 days of bad bullshit versus 3 weeks of arduous rise to freedom. I made it and I was doing great. I feel like I have no soul now. I know my question can't be answered, how long I will feel this way. I have a lot of health supplements and I am not unwell enough that I am completely bedridden. I don't think it will be a full 10 day nightmare again, but since I was taking 150mg at the vert least (I guess I'll have to count my stash and see) I am going to take 15mg (10% of that dose ) tonight so that I can get a good sleep. I am so done with this shit. How can a man not yet thirty lose the ability to think logically (I am normally very good at math and science, I couldn't focus on two pages of a book right now), lose all my creativity (guitar practice went straight from 4 one hour highly devoted sessions a day to zero), lose my healthy (at least I can eat and drink water this time, but I'm taking a lot of health supplements and I just feel like I have fuckin cancer or something), I really thought that this would be the last time that I used as it was triggered by a terrible loss. It's hard for me to remember those things when my entire body is overwhelmed by agony and my brain feels like it doesn't even have the energy or spirit to generate a thought unless it is negative. Total emptiness.
It's like I used once and completely forgot about those three weeks. I will definitely use 15mg oxy tonight as it has been planned all day and all of it was instant release so I am crashing HARD today. I feel like I should accept that for what it is, as sleep is a huge part of the recovery process and I don't have enough pills left that it's a danger. My only source left of course, after cutting myself off from the H, is the fucking pharmacy. Every time I relapse it is when I walk out those doors. I even called them and cancelled my oxycodone prescriptions, but then I called back a week later and manipulated them into getting one of them back saying I only wanted the ER meds cancelled. I woke up one day and I hadn't had a craving in 3 weeks and just freaked, and did everything I could to get them. By the time I came to my senses, I am having brutal withdrawal again.
Withdrawal is stagnation. Kind of like a hangover in that sense but much tougher physically of course. But does it really matter, when you are wasting a precious day? If I hadn't relapsed, I'd have 16 hours of guitar practice now that I do not have. And I'd say it will take at least a week until my creativity returns. I'm so weak and traumatized by this shit that I have to taper off because if I go without anymore sleep, my back is going to break. So I was thinking taking the dose at the same time before bed but lowering the dose by half a percocet each day (I wasn't taking that much apap these past few days) until I am clean again, and in the meantime I won't feel so bad.
It's a nightmare. I was doing so well but also it was an enormous struggle. All my problems flooding back worse than ever. Couldn't deal with it. Well I got my vacation and welcome to Hell again.
 
This part of the process just try to get over this moment you find yourself in and move on. You know the path!
Good luck!!
Erik
 
I don't want to take the oxy, but considering I am crashing from 150mg doses then 15mg to sleep is worth the risk to me.

It destroyed every constructive relationship I had. My last one was the nail on the coffin for me. We were completely in love when I was clean, when I was actively using we could not stand to be in the same room with each other. It changes me that much, and I am crashing in horrid withdrawal hell after simply 4 quick days of use, feels like I'm back to square one (I'm not physically at all, but my brain is trying to tell me that, it was so much worse before but the mind begins to play tricks) and that is my biggest regret as to me, she was my one and only person I have ever connected with on such a deep level. Chose a bottle of pills over her, more than once. The withdrawal comes back so fast now there is no such thing as getting even a day of a good high in without horrible repercussions. A single day will ruin everything I have going for me, at least for a while (much longer than a day). I have lost much more, such as tens of thousands of dollars, but that was the biggest loss for me because it ended specifically do to opiates.

Even when you recover, people never look at you the same. In future relationships (if I even want them after her) I'd never, ever mention a history with opiates. I will be who I am at that time and clean, as the judgement is extreme. It's really not fair in that sense. I feel like a lot of people are against me when it comes to my own recovery, but it's up to me anyway. I'm just saying, the stigma is extreme. Most people will never treat you the same again, despite quitting being such an admirable thing that most people could never endure the first week of.
 
People can be quite judgmental but that happens despite of the fact you have or had been using drugs. We are labelled by religion, sex orientation, money, country of origin, state of origin, color, etc, etc, etc. So take care of yourself first and I'm sure you'll have much more energy to deal with these labels in the future.

Don't let your opiate history define who you are, be defined by your goals and actions towards life. When it's time for relationships things can be told in the right time. Worry about how you are now. I'm telling you this because I've lost decades trying to figure how to live with drugs, it's not possible, at some point something will go wrong.
 
Heroin's lame dudes! I highly recommend skipping it. The high is super over rated but it's still the worst withdrawal.
 
I could never hold a job no matter how much energy I had on heroin. There would always come a day when I would be sick a rattling, shaking and burning muscles unable to focus at all. Wasted days like that. I am fearful of re-entering the work force without heroin or cocaine or both as a crutch. It terrifies me; I'm scared. It doesn't work long term at all, but it makes it bearable for a short while. I guess I have a lot to work out and I do. The aftermath is extreme.

Just need to remember that as little as 4 days ago I was doing really well. Wanted a little coke for a party this weekend if anything, opiates were not on my mind until I realized I could hustle my prescription back.

Side effects total destruction of sex drive and performance, constipation that can be so severe it feels like I imagine getting raped would feel like, and the withdrawals and cognitive side effects are much much worse and impossible to describe until you experience them.

I have several physical and mental health problems for my age, unemployed with 2 university degrees, and I sit in a basement when I'm using. When I'm not using, I try to deal with my back pain in healthier ways (turmeric supplementation and cooking with it really helps). I feel like I recovered really fast because I am one of the rare functional junkies. I held career jobs for years on dope before everything fell apart. I need to realize that it just is not worth it anymore because every penny of the money I earn and more will go to heroin. It's not that though. It literally steals the soul, the spirit, the vitality and joy of life out of a person. I was also only a sniffer. I shot myself up 5 times this year with very good stuff, chipped off a brick, and that was when I began the quitting process. This was many months ago and I disposed of the rest of my needles - my favourite colour has always been red and I dye my hair that way, you see... the needle was a whole new thing.

When you sniff it, the drug slowly comes on over 15 minutes. One gets a rush of energy and euphoria (if you have brain chemistry similar to mine, I actually become much more productive and that was the most seducing part of all... my thoughts are normally scrambled, I find it hard to pay attention to my surroundings and it's like H sorted everything out and I knew just what to say and do). Later on, comes the feeling of physical relaxation and sedation and this is when I would always drink cup after cup of sencha or white tea to try and keep myself from nodding off (I hated the nod, I used / use opiates for energy and pain relief and well they cure everything wrong with me except for the severe, extreme panic disorder which unfortunately I need a few benzos for... not ready to tackle that yet).

I had early life trauma, and a lot of traumatic experiences with my parents as a teen, culminating in getting kicked out on a frigid winter coat by my own mom unable to have time to grab a jacket and hat as I smelled of cannabis. That is her choice, I can't blame anyone but myself but I was a straight A university student at the time, had developed a cannabis habit while away from home, and ever since there has been so much instability. I've been moving around from place to place at a rapid pace, I just don't feel like I have a home and I'm the type of person (Taurus) where I need that personal space. Panic attacks, depression that is at times suicidal, failed relationships and with one female I loved so much I was planning to marry her and I was clean the vast majority of the time... this i cannot forgive myself for, I know people have it worse with prositution and stuff but a heartbreak that intense is NOT easy to get over... I feel like I want to be single the rest of my life because I can't imagine falling for someone like that ever again. We just clicked, and I've never had that in a decade of trying. I would still be with her if it wasn't for drugs, but we will never talk to each other again. That really breaks my heart and it was the starting point to my three weeks of solid, dedicated, cold turkey clean time.

I took the 15mg ir oxycodone. I don't think it's a bad thing for me at this moment because I have tried tapering with oxycodone for 3 months last year with very little disruptions to my schedule. I think if I can soften the blow by getting some mild relief, and using that time wisely with a direct focus on my health is not a bad thing so long as I stick to 8pm dosing once daily and lower my dose every couple of days by 2.5m oxy. It's the very pure afghan heroin, or the no longer existent real china white that really fucks me long term. If you get a connect for the good stuff it will destroy you, and if you don't, you'll probably die from a shitty fent high at some point. Of course none of it can be trusted at all.

By the way, if you are a chronic pain patient like me (I have excruciating pain in the thoracic region, that really affects my life in a negative way) - regular pain meds won't work after this stuff. The reason is tolerance. When I quit and made it three weeks, it was after a horrific heroin binge (do you notice I never see this positively now, I have seen what it's like to be clean, I never thought it was possible, and I am down for the lifelong struggle). However, the amount of heroin I was sniffing would drop me dead right now. I know I'd do the same amount, because it is an ingrained habit. And that's what I really have cravings for. I prefer sniffing heroin to injecting it for many reasons, and it doesn't matter what way this drug gets into your body apart from potential iv complications. I'm just saying, sniffing and smoking are extremely addictive too considering I've shot up enough to know what it's like, and I strongly prefer sniffing it.

Yeah though, I'm at the point where even a 5mg percocet will negatively affect me. It's because my brain never forgets the addictions, it is primed to relapse and was primed to get hooked from the start (I skipped pain pills and went straight to heroin, and I knew I wanted to use it all the time before I started using it... I knew this deep down, as I have unbearable chronic pain and that was the reason). However, it is crazy how much tolerance plays a role. Those 3 percocets gave more of an effect than a point of very high quality smaack (it's not a good thing if you find a connect for the real deal, it accelerates the self abuse) and 4 days of oxycodone left my brains fried and scrambled and my body hurting all day. It has been nothing like the cold turkey heroin detox, but this never would have happened before. When I started using 18 months flew by, it was wonderful at the time to be numb yet still retain my intellect and creativity, with ungoldy amounts of chemically induced energy. I was helping me out of a bad place so well at the time, that it wasn't until that much long later that I realized I was a drug addict. I knew before of course, but I could aways shake off those dilaudid binges.

Last year I took 8mg dilaudid orally while detoxing, and nodding out in heavenly bliss for 6 hours. This was 2 weeks clean, and the following 10 days I felt no physical withdrawals but I felt the same loss of spirit and joy for life. I was hell because normally I find the physical symptoms distracting and almost necessary to combat the suicidal tendencies. It's insane how weak I am physically nd how dead I am inside.

I will make it out of this mess, though. I told myself I would never use again when the opiates caused me to lose her. She was really special to me, and I to her, and it makes me cr sometimes. Ever since then, well I binged on heroni for a while moving on from my oxy script and then I was clean for 3 weeks. It is only a 4 day slip-up, those three weeks really strengthen me and I can't see myself ever going back. One of my points was the pain pills were at one point much less worse and less dangerous for me than heroin. That really isn't the case anymore. It has everything to do with tolerance. The percs completely fucked me this time it wasn't even dope. There comes a time when it doesn't matter what opiate or opioid it is, any of them will ruin your life if not leave you dead. The withdrawal can't kill you but it is my opinion that a lot of OD's are suicides and it happens a lot when people are trying to get clean and can't handle it.

I want to bounce back and be a success. Even if it ruined my potential, an average job and a cute girl would make me happy with all my hobbies and interests. I can get there, it's really just taking a while and I am really getting impatient. At least I have gotten a little relief at the one hour mark, I should be abe to sleep before the oxy wears off and then I will withdrawal more harshly in the morning hours and have anothe garabage day. Reallly getting tough to find the will to carry on.
 
I think if you were Satan and you were sitting around trying to think up something that would bring the human race to its knees, what you'd probably come up with is narcotics

---- that's a loose paraphrase of a line outta Cormac McCarthy's novel, No Country For Old Men
(At the moment I'm in too damn much pain to crawl over to the bookshelf n quote him right)
 
Hi bvrd_man,

How much codeine did you usually take let’s say in a day? How long did it take for you to progress to H, if you don’t mind me asking?
 
I've seen many types of different users / junkies / addicts. We are all different but from experience I can say that once you get the habit and do H every here and then it's all a matter of time. Soon you'll be capable of selling your own organs if it comes down to that, so that you can have you dose. Especially if you are just about to withdrawal and start feeling that fear and anxiety that drives most of us crazy. It's not only the bad feelings and not being physically well it's the entire life we have focusing on one thing only. Getting high, and shut up all the bad voices your body is annoyingly expelling.

Tolerance is also quite unexpected. You suddenly need to take much more in order to feel good or just be yourself. And in the process it's easy to OD, or to simply go on expending a lot of money you don't have and pushing away every one, I mean everyone!! Parents, best friends, teachers. It's now only you and your dealer and we think we won't do shitty things for money. Well reality has shown me that one would do just about anything to get there. It's a tough life even when you are fed up with it and quit.
 
^^^^^ Erik , due to EXACTLY the points you make I praise God every day I've never tried a "hard drug".
My issue was with vicodin .... even that was mild compared to some yet it was bad enuf it messed things up for me: my use messed things up for me. No disrespect to the drug itself.
Even with my mild addiction, I struggle tremendously now with pain I can't even get REAL meds for and various emotional difficulties.
 
Do meth if you're super curious. Realize it's nothing too special, at least it seems at first.

Do heroin. You might really enjoy it, you might be sick the whole time.


I'd recommend neither. "Just say no" never really worked.
 
^^^^^ I ain't curious. Trust me. I've known enough people.....***shudder at their sufferings ***
I just wish for effective and safe Pain Relief. And I don't even live with pain full time, like others do. I have a poor poor tolerance of pain and suffering. I call myself a wimp but I wouldn't call another in my position a wimp. Aint that weird? How we are so much more kind and decent to a stranger than to ourselves?
 
Whatever you are going through Heroin is not the answer. It only makes things way worse, especially if you have pain.
 
Oh yes I agree. I've no interest on heroin.
Might get some kratom if my skeletal pain keeps up at the level its been or gets any worse.... and kratom is only a Maybe, if a new doc has no suggestions.
 
No, it's a drug of addiction, as in it will control your whole life, if not extinguish it.
 
Indeed control, but also destroy relations, make your body full of marks from itching, deteriorated health and liver functions, lose your friends, family and when you fell you are done with it and wants to quit, it could be very hard to find people to give you support as they would be distanced, and hurt. We tend to fall into this default pattern and it's hard to get away.

By now, I will suggest that you simply look at the posts in this thread and take your decision. It's your life, we don't know you, we are just trying to help.
 
Hi bvrd_man,

How much codeine did you usually take let’s say in a day? How long did it take for you to progress to H, if you don’t mind me asking?

as much until i threw up but nothing too ridiculous, 250mg codeine, 150mg dhc was around my limit. I was taking it night after night sometimes but not for too long or too often, only had a bad WD once. would never redose cus i read it would be a waste.
 
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