‘Smack’ paid for by your tax

^ For every drug dealer "owning street corners" and buying guns ans such, for every drug user robbing and stealing and all that stuff on the TV, there are easily 5 or 6 more who never resort to such practices.

Some of us know when we're getting low on our DOC/$$$ and dose accordingly to stave off the W/D's.
 
nycrosshairs said:
If you go through this forum you will see many numb nuts saying things like "Yea i want to try every drug and see what the highs are like, thats just me man".

In reality we all would like to feel these highs but you have to man up and learn that you can't feel these highs (most of us) or there will be problems. Nowadays theres too much knowledge for most to be experimenting with these harder drugs. If you become addicted and are having trouble with heroin then theres alot of blame on yourself.

I never chose to get wasted and feel great on heroin to escape my problems. So an addict who is thrown in jail has now got the opportunity to get clean and man up. We can't hold their hands and give them alittle room to go play in while we deal with the daily grind and pay the bill.
Click to expand...

If you did a little research you would see that many people who are given prescription heroin actually do start to become "productive members of society" (whatever the fuck that means). They get jobs and support themselves and pay taxes and do all the other things that they couldn't do when they were constantly facing the legal, health, and financial troubles that the criminalizing of heroin and other opiates create. Once they no longer are forced to become criminals and live in a undergound, blackmarket drug culture, they become like any other person who takes prescription medication, and are free to focus their time and energy on positive and healthy goals and lifestyles, because they no longer need to struggle desperately for what has become, for them, a necessity just like food and water are to any other person.

People who are allowed to use heroin don't always just waste their life away and mooch off the system and sit around all day getting high. Heroin isn't even like alcohol or coke where you are unable to function normally when you are under the influence. You can think and act clearly and rationally, and go about daily activities like any normal person. In fact, someone on opiates may even be more productive than a normal person, because the drug helps to deaden pain, and activities that would be overly strenuous or boring to a sober person are much more easily handled by someone who is high on opiates. I know that when I am in school and have plenty of heroin, I am able to study for hours upon hours with no trouble at all, because I feel good and relaxed and am able to focus without being bothered by how boring or difficult what I am doing is. Just like people on methadone are able to function again, so can people on heroin.

What you say is just patently wrong, and comes from being both uninformed and prejudicial, as well as completely ignorant with the nature of addiction and how it affects people. There is a component of choice when it comes to addiction, I suppose, but after a while it really isn't a choice anymore, you are stuck and there is a good chance that even if you do get better in some ways, your life will never be the same again and you will live with it in one form or another until the day you die. Subscribing addiction to a lack of morals or strength of character is totally incorrect, as you would know if you had any experience with it yourself. Just because you were lucky enough to avoid that particular problem doesn't mean that you are somehow smarter or better than someone who has not. Some, if not most, people fall into addiction without ever realizing it. They become addicted because of a serious injury that requires opiate treatment for pain management, or they were never properly educated on the dangers of addiction, or they were young and uninformed, or they fell into a cycle of using because it was the only thing that worked to alleviate crippling depression. You can't blame these people any more than you can blame someone who gets hit by a bus or gets lost hiking in the woods or catches some crippling communicative disease. Add in the genetic component and you might as well be blaming people who are born blind for not being able to see.

Wake up, man. Your attitude is ignorant, cruel, and totally unhelpful, and is, unfortunately, indicative of the thinking of most of the drug prohibitionists out there. You are what is wrong with society when it comes to the dismal state of addiction and drug policy and treatment in the world.

:p:\


P.S. - It isn't like the drugs themselves cost the taxpayer a great deal of money in the first place. Why not get mad at the huge amounts of totally wasteful pork-barrel spending and other wasteful and unethical government spending practices.
 
pennywise said:
If you did a little research you would see that many people who are given prescription heroin actually do start to become "productive members of society" (whatever the fuck that means). They get jobs and support themselves and pay taxes and do all the other things that they couldn't do when they were constantly facing the legal, health, and financial troubles that the criminalizing of heroin and other opiates create. Once they no longer are forced to become criminals and live in a undergound, blackmarket drug culture, they become like any other person who takes prescription medication, and are free to focus their time and energy on positive and healthy goals and lifestyles, because they no longer need to struggle desperately for what has become, for them, a necessity just like food and water are to any other person.

People who are allowed to use heroin don't always just waste their life away and mooch off the system and sit around all day getting high. Heroin isn't even like alcohol or coke where you are unable to function normally when you are under the influence. You can think and act clearly and rationally, and go about daily activities like any normal person. In fact, someone on opiates may even be more productive than a normal person, because the drug helps to deaden pain, and activities that would be overly strenuous or boring to a sober person are much more easily handled by someone who is high on opiates. I know that when I am in school and have plenty of heroin, I am able to study for hours upon hours with no trouble at all, because I feel good and relaxed and am able to focus without being bothered by how boring or difficult what I am doing is. Just like people on methadone are able to function again, so can people on heroin.

What you say is just patently wrong, and comes from being both uninformed and prejudicial, as well as completely ignorant with the nature of addiction and how it affects people. There is a component of choice when it comes to addiction, I suppose, but after a while it really isn't a choice anymore, you are stuck and there is a good chance that even if you do get better in some ways, your life will never be the same again and you will live with it in one form or another until the day you die. Subscribing addiction to a lack of morals or strength of character is totally incorrect, as you would know if you had any experience with it yourself. Just because you were lucky enough to avoid that particular problem doesn't mean that you are somehow smarter or better than someone who has not. Some, if not most, people fall into addiction without ever realizing it. They become addicted because of a serious injury that requires opiate treatment for pain management, or they were never properly educated on the dangers of addiction, or they were young and uninformed, or they fell into a cycle of using because it was the only thing that worked to alleviate crippling depression. You can't blame these people any more than you can blame someone who gets hit by a bus or gets lost hiking in the woods or catches some crippling communicative disease. Add in the genetic component and you might as well be blaming people who are born blind for not being able to see.

Wake up, man. Your attitude is ignorant, cruel, and totally unhelpful, and is, unfortunately, indicative of the thinking of most of the drug prohibitionists out there. You are what is wrong with society when it comes to the dismal state of addiction and drug policy and treatment in the world.

:p:\


P.S. - It isn't like the drugs themselves cost the taxpayer a great deal of money in the first place. Why not get mad at the huge amounts of totally wasteful pork-barrel spending and other wasteful and unethical government spending practices.
Click to expand...
Quoted because it's a damn good post!
 
Don't forget how many dollars are spent incarcerating addicts... Who's paying for all those corrections officers salaries, money to build and maintain the jails, etc..

The fact that it is a health problem and is treated as a legal problem, it's pretty sad. Here in NJ, the average wait to get into a state treatment facility is anywhere from 6-10weeks, detoxes are always full and turn people away... A heroin addict who tries to seek help will find himself lost.

Society at large is quick to judge people who choose to use heroin, but there is very little that is offered to help the addict. I've been through it before. Without health insurance your options are minimal. It pretty much comes down to locking yourself in a room and detoxing, or going on methadone. The only "help" that the state will give you on the spot is locking your ass up should you be found with drugs on you.

All the money spent on incarceration could certainly be put to better use, but the word "heroin" is such a sore subject that no one will ever try to see your point of view.

Money wise, how expensive could it really be to feed a heroin addict prescription heroin? You can produce it and sell it all while taking away the illicit drug trade from countries like afghanistan.

What it comes down to is society is always so concerned with what everyone else is doing, who is it really hurting if someone wants to go home and use heroin? Why does that bother people SO much that that person might have found a better way, for his own situation. Every argument about this is filled with ignorance, misinformation, and down round ridiciulous.
 
mulberryman said:
^ For every drug dealer "owning street corners" and buying guns ans such, for every drug user robbing and stealing and all that stuff on the TV, there are easily 5 or 6 more who never resort to such practices.

Some of us know when we're getting low on our DOC/$$$ and dose accordingly to stave off the W/D's.
Click to expand...

mulberry, I wasn't implying that we turn to selling drugs and such, I was commenting on the other side of it, how the fact it's illegal causes there to be violence on our streets because it creates that black market for drugs just like prohibition created the bootleggers...

I separate addict from drug dealer, I think the best situation is to help the addict while ridding our streets of crime. And the solution isn't that hard to figure out... But who's going to pay all those cops salaries! Oh my!
 
So we start prescribing heroin to addicts.... but what happens when we want more? Because we will want more. It's bound to happen. Fuck this shit. Just legalize weed and you'll cut the number of addicts in half!

Think the government has you by the balls now? Just think about how easy it would be to control 60,000 dopefiends! (in Baltimore, 10% of the population uses, and the numbers are similar in Philly, and NJ) Imagine a cold shitty morning outside of the clinic; hundreds of dopefiends standing in line, shivering, dopesick and half crazy, waiting for their government sponsored addiction. What a fuckin pathetic sight that would be.....

this article brings back a memory of somethin that I read in the Baltimore Sun awhile back.... the story was about the 1968 riots in Baltimore. When the reporter asked one of the political organizers of the time (some black power, black panther type) if he thought that people in Baltimore were capable of rioting again he said something like: "people here are so strung out on dope, half of 'em can't even run down the block without falling over." the point he was trying to make is this: a city full of passive heroin addicts just turn a blind eye to any sort of injustice, because they're too fuckin stoned to care!

I don't care it would save the govt money (it might), or lower crime. (maybe it would?) It's just wrong. This would make alot of us slaves/pawns/passive lumps of shit that would never leave the house to do anything!
 
jersey drape said:
Don't forget how many dollars are spent incarcerating addicts... Who's paying for all those corrections officers salaries, money to build and maintain the jails, etc..
Click to expand...

That is a good point. It apparently costs over $20,000 to incarcerate a person for one year. I doubt if it would cost more than one tenth of that to supply them with heroin for a year, and not much more to give them some form of counseling. They could probably eventually pay for it themselves, too.

source
 
youarewhatyouis said:
Think the government has you by the balls now? Just think about how easy it would be to control 60,000 dopefiends! (in Baltimore, 10% of the population uses, and the numbers are similar in Philly, and NJ) Imagine a cold shitty morning outside of the clinic; hundreds of dopefiends standing in line, shivering, dopesick and half crazy, waiting for their government sponsored addiction. What a fuckin pathetic sight that would be.....

I don't care it would save the govt money (it might), or lower crime. (maybe it would?) It's just wrong. This would make alot of us slaves/pawns/passive lumps of shit that would never leave the house to do anything!
Click to expand...

First, you're obviously way misinformed because those lines already exist, it's called the methadone clinic.

Second, what does weed have to do with anything? Obviously weed doesn't appeal to everyone, So because you smoke pot you're better than anyone who does heroin?
Third, it's going to turn everyone into slaves/pawns/passive lumps? What the hell does that mean, people already strung out on heroin go through that, its meant to ease their lives, not to entice people who don't use drugs. Plenty of people go through that with alcohol. Since alcohol is legal, did it turn you into a fall down drunk driving your car through piles of innocent school children? Your post is just another form of misinformation that troubles the lives of addicted people...
 
pennywise said:
If you did a little research you would see that many people who are given prescription heroin actually do start to become "productive members of society" (whatever the fuck that means). They get jobs and support themselves and pay taxes and do all the other things that they couldn't do when they were constantly facing the legal, health, and financial troubles that the criminalizing of heroin and other opiates create. Once they no longer are forced to become criminals and live in a undergound, blackmarket drug culture, they become like any other person who takes prescription medication, and are free to focus their time and energy on positive and healthy goals and lifestyles, because they no longer need to struggle desperately for what has become, for them, a necessity just like food and water are to any other person.

People who are allowed to use heroin don't always just waste their life away and mooch off the system and sit around all day getting high. Heroin isn't even like alcohol or coke where you are unable to function normally when you are under the influence. You can think and act clearly and rationally, and go about daily activities like any normal person. In fact, someone on opiates may even be more productive than a normal person, because the drug helps to deaden pain, and activities that would be overly strenuous or boring to a sober person are much more easily handled by someone who is high on opiates. I know that when I am in school and have plenty of heroin, I am able to study for hours upon hours with no trouble at all, because I feel good and relaxed and am able to focus without being bothered by how boring or difficult what I am doing is. Just like people on methadone are able to function again, so can people on heroin.

What you say is just patently wrong, and comes from being both uninformed and prejudicial, as well as completely ignorant with the nature of addiction and how it affects people. There is a component of choice when it comes to addiction, I suppose, but after a while it really isn't a choice anymore, you are stuck and there is a good chance that even if you do get better in some ways, your life will never be the same again and you will live with it in one form or another until the day you die. Subscribing addiction to a lack of morals or strength of character is totally incorrect, as you would know if you had any experience with it yourself. Just because you were lucky enough to avoid that particular problem doesn't mean that you are somehow smarter or better than someone who has not. Some, if not most, people fall into addiction without ever realizing it. They become addicted because of a serious injury that requires opiate treatment for pain management, or they were never properly educated on the dangers of addiction, or they were young and uninformed, or they fell into a cycle of using because it was the only thing that worked to alleviate crippling depression. You can't blame these people any more than you can blame someone who gets hit by a bus or gets lost hiking in the woods or catches some crippling communicative disease. Add in the genetic component and you might as well be blaming people who are born blind for not being able to see.

Wake up, man. Your attitude is ignorant, cruel, and totally unhelpful, and is, unfortunately, indicative of the thinking of most of the drug prohibitionists out there. You are what is wrong with society when it comes to the dismal state of addiction and drug policy and treatment in the world.

:p:\


P.S. - It isn't like the drugs themselves cost the taxpayer a great deal of money in the first place. Why not get mad at the huge amounts of totally wasteful pork-barrel spending and other wasteful and unethical government spending practices.
Click to expand...

I understand that my tone was harsh but it is just one side of my view. I understand theres many variables in this and just throwing somebody in jail isn't the way to solve it. There will probably never be a way to solve it but i don't like to hear things like they deserve special treatment. thats not fair on honest hardworking level headed people.
 
First, you're obviously way misinformed because those lines already exist, it's called the methadone clinic.
Click to expand...

methadone clinics? I hate those goddamn places too. It's just a way to hold us all down. To control us. To pacify us. but at least a methadone buzz lasts a good 24 hours.

I'm not "the enemy." I got dope in my spleen as I type this right now.....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youarewhatyouis

Think the government has you by the balls now? Just think about how easy it would be to control 60,000 dopefiends! (in Baltimore, 10% of the population uses, and the numbers are similar in Philly, and NJ) Imagine a cold shitty morning outside of the clinic; hundreds of dopefiends standing in line, shivering, dopesick and half crazy, waiting for their government sponsored addiction. What a fuckin pathetic sight that would be.....

I don't care it would save the govt money (it might), or lower crime. (maybe it would?) It's just wrong. This would make alot of us slaves/pawns/passive lumps of shit that would never leave the house to do anything!
Click to expand...


First, you're obviously way misinformed because those lines already exist, it's called the methadone clinic.

Second, what does weed have to do with anything? Obviously weed doesn't appeal to everyone, So because you smoke pot you're better than anyone who does heroin?
Third, it's going to turn everyone into slaves/pawns/passive lumps? What the hell does that mean, people already strung out on heroin go through that, its meant to ease their lives, not to entice people who don't use drugs. Plenty of people go through that with alcohol. Since alcohol is legal, did it turn you into a fall down drunk driving your car through piles of innocent school children? Your post is just another form of misinformation that troubles the lives of addicted people..
Click to expand...

HERE, HERE jersey drape.. %)
 
youarewhatyouis said:
methadone clinics? I hate those goddamn places too. It's just a way to hold us all down. To control us. To pacify us. but at least a methadone buzz lasts a good 24 hours.

I'm not "the enemy." I got dope in my spleen as I type this right now.....
Click to expand...

Cool dude.. It's all 'bout the 'done.. your input is so much more credible now that we all know you're a user. 8) .........jackass
 
^^yeah im not a fiend, I just play one on Bluelight, lol.

I mean, if your telling me im not on the shit, then okay.... I guess I should say thank you because thats pretty much a compliment 'round where I live


nevermind. government heroin for everyone! yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
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Whoever said it takes $20,000 to house someone in jail for one year has obviously never been to jail themselves. If that statistic is true, then someone' walking around with about $19,000 worth of gelatinized fat rolls worth of jelly donuts in their ass.
 
Why would someone specializing in the statistics of jail costs be in jail?
How much more could you know on the costs of incarceration than the next John Doe?
I'll be the first to admit that I don't have a clue, from first hand experience, how much it costs to keep a person in jail for a year. But I'd hazard a guess that Pennywise is right in saying that supplying someone with their daily dose and motivational counseling would be much more cost effective than slapping them in a cell.
PLUS you'd get the added benefit of change, which wouldn't be seen if they were to be put in jail, let out, and then go back to their routine of keeping w/d's at bay.
 
marquee said:
At least British tax dollars are being put to good use...
Click to expand...

That woule be tax POUNDs then? :\

You pay for it either way. Crime increases so policing costs more, more prison places cost more, paying the health bills for people with Hepatitis (forget HIV, hep kills more addicts).
 
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