¡forgiving oneself!

[michael]

well, i realized the only person standing in the way of self-forgiveness was myself. at that point i had a decision to make; keep beating myself up or forgive myself - everyone else has long ago. what was i getting out of punishing myself further? the answer is MISERABLE. the fork in the road shone like a sunrise. the past is the past. dwelling on it ain't gonna do you any good. one of these days i hope you'll get the message - then its time to hang up the phone.

 

[Sepher]

In the case of what you have "done", wrongs you feel you have committed or behavior that you are not proud of, what if you were to see those acts as your teachers rather than what defines you? I know that the things that I have done wrong in my life are the foundation for my whole moral outlook. Parents and teachers can say, "don't lie or cheat or steal", but it is simply an abstract until you do one of those things and see the pain you cause by doing so. Sometimes it takes a long time to get the lesson.

I can't come back to everyone on the thread yet . . . it's too big. So . . . .I'll start with small bits:

I get this absolutely. Pain caused and pain felt are absolutely integral to my moral compass these days too, but then, I always knew my actions would cause other people pain. I didn't need to see their pain to know that, but yet I still did it to them. So much pain. So, in one sense I've not learned anything I didn't know before I did it to them. Can't see how my moral compass is any bigger, or better as a result, you know? It's the same moral compass I was brought up with, by the people I harmed. No kudos to be had here.

Ya, I know that I overthink things to death and that things that seem like gigantic deals to me probably don't even matter much at all to others. So I am really blowing things way out of proportion (and don't even really need to be forgiven for stuff that I think is really bad). But no! See, I have gravitated to other neurotic nutcases like myself throughout my life, so when things in these social circles get all screwed up, I feel overwhelmed by what I believe is a hurricane of outstanding lingering thoughts and feelings.

This is the difficulty. Most of the stuff I beat myself up about on a daily basis is trivial shit most of the people I feel a need to apologise to would not, I'm sure, even remember, and would go 'WTF are you on about Neil? When did this happen again? 20 years ago? Naw, got better things to be thinking about mate'. Thing is, I remember, even if they don't. Part of the problem I have with 12 step is that to seek forgiveness from these people I'd need to make them aware a problem existed in my mind even one doesn't exist in theirs, and then i worry maybe at that point I'm maybe making my problem theirs too . . . ? Does that make sense? It follows on from your previous post perhaps, in my head at least?

It's a feeling deep inside that people are only complimenting me like that because they don't know the complete RedLeader, and an anxiety that as soon as I elaborated enough on everything bad I have done, those compliments would be revoked. The answer to this fear would be "okay, so try me!", to which I would agree and write some big gigantic post about bad things I've done. After which, everyone would still want to be my friend and be telling me that everything is okay. After which, I'd feel happy for a few minutes, but then think Not enough elaboration! I must have not conveyed something well-enough, or my readers didn't understand just how perverse and awful the thoughts were behind those actions! And it would be iteration after iteration of this, never being able to shake the fear that if just one more layer of RedLeader was pulled back, everyone would understand and recant the forgiveness, shunning me away and finally understanding why I deserve to feel all of this pain.

Yes, absolutely. Burning bridges thing I said earlier? This would be it. The people who like me clearly have not seen through me enough just yet, to the real Neil. The Neil I live with. So . . . . you reveal darker and darker aspects of your inner psyche, and those who still choose to stick with you, you begin to push away, to save them from their own naivete. Eventually some of the behaviours and characteristics I project don't seem even to be me anymore, and then I wonder, if they're not me, well where did they come from, and then there's a whole new layer to be unravelled at some point. Self-hatred is self-reinforcing. It sustains itself really well. Tricksy bugger to unpick, no question.

 

[.1up]

I'm happy for you michael! I wish i could say I could just forgive myself...I sit around and beat myself up all day about how much of a failure I am. I've never been able to forgive myself for anything, but I never hold a grudge against anyone. Some horrible double standards I have for myself. I lost everything because of one stupid mistake, all my friends, my family is ashamed of me, my education and also my job. I try to move past it but my father likes to bring it up as if to kick me while I'm down. How am I supposed to forgive myself when I feel like I'm not even accepted by my own family.

 

[RedLeader]

This is the difficulty. Most of the stuff I beat myself up about on a daily basis is trivial shit most of the people I feel a need to apologise to would not, I'm sure, even remember, and would go 'WTF are you on about Neil? When did this happen again? 20 years ago? Naw, got better things to be thinking about mate'. Thing is, I remember, even if they don't. Part of the problem I have with 12 step is that to seek forgiveness from these people I'd need to make them aware a problem existed in my mind even one doesn't exist in theirs, and then i worry maybe at that point I'm maybe making my problem theirs too . . . ? Does that make sense? It follows on from your previous post perhaps, in my head at least?

I believe this is an AA quote, but you sound like the "ego maniac with an inferiority complex." I'm one too. Always thinking that everything bad is related to me, but nothing good is because of me.

When I think about hurting people, I often see "domino effects" going on in their lives, with some consequence of the inflicted trauma (me onto them back in the day) being the first domino. And of course I want to blame myself for the entire thing collapsing. Here's a (fictitious) example: Let's say that I confess to you that I drunk-texted something flirtatious to your wife. The next day at work, you cannot stop thinking about this and you fuck something up, causing you to be written up. Oh, but it's that write-up that pushes you over the edge and you lose your job. Suddenly thrown into financial hardship, you have to sell your car to not lose your house, and with no car you have to take public transportation to work (which freaks you out given how socially anxious you are). While existing public transport one night, you are robbed at knifepoint, which ends up being a horribly traumatic experience for you and you end up drinking and cutting yourself to numb the PTS of the incident.

Now in my mind, every single thing that happened in that story is my fault. And this is also where I beat myself up and feel tons of guilt. I look at everyone who was around me during my addiction, and everything negative going on in their current lives, and my mind is able to establish causal links back to ways I hurt them during my addiction. I can set up the freakin' dominos in every single case.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Great thread

Forgiving oneself is so important! I try to tell myself I love, accept and forgive myself, but it still feels awkward and makes me cry. I'm going to try to keep doing it though because postive self-talk can be of huge benefit. I think a lot of us are really hard on ourselves, feel a lot of guilt or shame, and berate ourselves endlessly, which is really damaging. But it's hard not to do when you've been doing it for so long. Remember that blame is useless and counter-productive and it is not correct that the bad things that have happened to you are your "fault", even the choices you made. You were just doing the best you could at the time with the skills, circumstances, upbringing and brain you'd been given. Accepting responsibility for changing things does not have to involve blaming yourself. This stuff is definitely easier said than done, but we have to just keep trying to change our way of thinking about ourselves.

I know for me, the blaming myself comes from my childhood. Even though I understand where it comes from doesn't seem to make it much easier to change, but maybe it's a step at least.

 

[michael]

How am I supposed to forgive myself when I feel like I'm not even accepted by my own family.

why let their perception of you keep yourself from accomplishing something as sweet as saying I FORGIVE MYSELF FOR WHAT I HAVE DONE!

i swear to you all it really is that simple. let go of the past and embrace the exciting future! it will be like a dark weight is lifted from your shoulders.

and then the only thing you will need to forgive yourself for is taking so long to figure it out - but that forgiveness will come just as fast!