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Tramadol vs. actual narcotics

NarcoticNinja

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Apr 27, 2011
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I've been a recreational user of narcotics for a couple of years, especially oxycodone and hydrocodone. I can get fairly high from 15mg and 20mg respectively due to the fact that I haven't really used any stronger medications other than one does of morphine. Oxy is my drug of choice, but I have easier access to vicodin and codeine (though it takes a lot of the latter to fuck me up).

Anyway, my doctor recently prescribed me 50mg tramadol pills for an injury I sustained because she knew that I would abuse vicodin or percocet if I was given either of those. The pills are supposed to be non-narcotic, but when I took just one pill, it hit me like a fucking train. It felt like 40mg of oxycodone. I've taken several more of the pills and gotten similar results.

This doesn't make any sense at all to me, and I wondered if anyone might have an explanation as to why I'm able to get so fucked up on a non-narcotic medication. Not that I'm complaining, of course.
 
Im not sure, but tolarence builds up quickly, so enjoy it while it lasts lol
 
It has partial Mu-receptor affinity which is the primary receptor responsible for opiates analgesic/ euphoriant properties. There are higher risks though associated with tramadol though insofar as lowering your seizure-threshold.

I've found tramadol to be helpful during w/d s but as far as catching a nod, doesnt do much for me. But oh how I envy the days of virtually 0 opiate tolerance...
 
When I took tramadol it would be in between 200 and 350 mg's. I definately got me high, but also stimulated and unable to sleep. This is without tolerance. It seems crazy to me someone can get high on 50 mg's.

I have taken 35 mg of oxycodone in the nose without tolerance though, so I tend to need more of most things then average.
 
tramadol is a narcotic...and its alright, a little better when potentiated with grapefruit juice.. the effects are very long lasting which is something i like, even though i had a seizure from this shit lmfao...
 
Not worth messing with...once your tolerance kicks in the dosage you need to get high starts to become dangerous.. Going past 400mg's is when you start to get int the danger zone. Trust me I've seized on the shit and so I went cold turkey.. The withdrawal was hell on earth. Let's just say I'm never touching tramadol again.
 
alwaysblazed makes an excellent point. once you make tramadol a habit, you start eating it like candy and, for the record, withdrawal from tramadol sucks balls. that said, here's why i think a low dose of tramadol is effing you up: first of all, the doses of oxy and hydrocodone you say you typically use (15-20mg) are very low, so it sounds like you have a fairly low tolerance for opiates. the high associated with opiates is the result of an opiate binding to and agonizing various opiate receptors, the most notable of which is the mu opiate receptor. one of the active metabolites of tramadol, o-desmethyltramadol, has an affinity (albeit a weak one) for the mu opiate receptor. opiates like oxy and hydrocodone have very strong affinities for the mu opiate receptor and are, in comparison, much stronger than tramadol. however, tramadol does something that most other opiates do not - tramadol stimulates the release of serotonin and inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine. these actions, as well as o-desmethyltramadol's affinity for the mu opiate receptor, are responsible for tramadol's analgesic and euphoric effects. i'm guessing that tramadol's actions on serotonin and norepinephrine jive really well with you and that, in combination with your low tolerance for opiates, is the reason why you are getting such a buzz off of tramadol. the fact that this is the first time you've used tramadol could very well be the reason why such a low dose is effective for you. does that all make sense?
 
The active metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol, is closely related to a narcotic analgesic used in Europe - tilidate. If you look at O-desmethyltramadol as a reverse ester of tilidate (ie the same relationship pethedine has withe prodine series), it's pretty obvious that calling tramadol a non-narcotic is bending the truth beyond breaking point, to put it mildly
 
I got a good 8 years out of tramadol, I loved the well being feeling and the fact that I never was tired on it. Sadly it does not do much for me anymore. The tolerance for me built rather slowly so it may work for awhile. But if you don't need it for pain I would not take it daily but just when you need a extra boost. you don't really get a buzz more so its a sense of well being and wanting to do stuff, clean, be around people ect. Instead of just chill
 
Tramadol (which is a narcotic), as formulated, is of very limited recreational use. It is however, definitively addictive, and is far less "safe" and "enjoyable" than other low-potency opiates such as codeine, DHC etc. Again, I speaking strictly in terms of recreational use (not clinical), but with tramadol I have found there to be mild-modest opioidergic properties in non-tolerant users, however tolerance grows quickly and eventually, it is difficult to even "feel" any MOR activity whatsoever (even in doses far above the 'seizure threshold'). Personally, I found the monoaminergic activity of tramadol to be an annoyance, as it reduces appetite, presents a very real risk for hypertensive crisis if taken in sufficient dosages and combined with other 5-HT modulating compounds (I have seen fatalities from high dose tramadol and SSRI's, as well as one case involving a modest dose of tramadol combined with a rather typical dose of MDMA).

Some will disagree, but from my perspective, the drug has anti-depressant properties which are generally unremarkable.

Clinically speaking, yes, the drug works for pain, but there are a multitude of superior and safer alternatives. Some physicians simply prefer to prescribe the drug due to the fact that is (in most states) an 'Rx only' compound, which is more of a reflection on the physicians personal liability concerns. It will be prescribed more and more, particularly since dextropropoxyphene is no longer available. The concern is that some physicians prefer to prescribe far more "dangerous" opioids such as dextropropoxyphene or tramadol over codeine/hydrocodone, simply to "protect" themselves, or under some misguided opioiphobic notion.

The catch is......O-desmethyltramadol, 'metabolite 1' of tramadol, is actually, a pretty enjoyable opioid when used in its pure state. O-desmethyltramadol lacks much of the monoaminergic properties of its parent drug, and has unmistakable and powerful MOR activity. I found it best injected (again I am not talking about tramadol, I am talking about pure O-desmethyltramadol), which produced an effect similar to pethidine, but more sedating. Intravenously, O-desmethyltramadol can easily induce full "narcosis", nodding, etc. Do to its fast acting nature, I recall nodding off after re-administering an IV dose, leaving the syringe half depressed in the catheter (in the rare event that I decide something is worth injecting, I use a catheter instead of poking holes in my arms). I have also, in the past, injected tramadol ampules, and it was nothing like the M1, in fact, it was actually unpleasant from what I recall.

The one way to make p.o. tramadol "worth it" is to take in a manner in that maximizes conversion to M1. I have toyed around with this, using ethanol and cimetidine (high dose), with zero to moderate success (the tramadol dose needs to be large, personally 500mg or more). I am well aware of the literature and know the stated threshold, so I cannot recommend doing the things I personally attempt.

To optimize oral tramadol to M1 conversion one must understand the metabolic processes/phases, pharmacokinetic curves, pH dependence, p-gp-mediated efflux-take etc, etc. Its actually a bit of a headache and waste of time, but I have gotten it to work using agents such as ethanol, cimetidine, omperazole, quinidine gluconate ER tablets, etc. I have not been able to do it consistently, but I have a rough idea of ideal timing, doses etc. Why fuck with tramadol to begin with? Because its cheap, unscheduled, and not nearly as alluring as pure agonists (for example, methadone, is a drug I very much enjoy, which is why I cannot use it due to my susceptibility to opioid addiction). Tramadol is an experiment of sorts.....

This article is some rather heavy reading but it is interesting:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2774482/
 
negrogesic, why were you using cimetidine to optimize to M1?

Doesn't cimetidine inhibit both CYP3A4 and CYP2D6, where I would think that you would only want to inhibit CYP3A4 since CYP2D6 is the one responsible for the o-desmethylation?


edit: oh, I see that you were also taking quinidine which is a CYP2D6 inducer!
 
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negrogesic, why were you using cimetidine to optimize to M1?

Doesn't cimetidine inhibit both CYP3A4 and CYP2D6, where I would think that you would only want to inhibit CYP3A4 since CYP2D6 is the one responsible for the o-desmethylation?


edit: oh, I see that you were also taking quinidine which is a CYP2D6 inducer!

Quinidine is not a CYP2D6 inducer - Quinidine is a CYP2D6 inhibitor. Ethanol is the CYP2D6 inducer. I've attached a CYP450 table for reference.
EDIT: be aware that this CYP450 table lists St. John's Wort as a CYP2D6 inducer - there are numerous studies that suggest SJW has no effects on CYP2D6 whatsoever.
 

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Quinidine is not a CYP2D6 inducer - Quinidine is a CYP2D6 inhibitor. Ethanol is the CYP2D6 inducer. I've attached a CYP450 table for reference.

D'oh!!!!

A most excellent chart; Thank you!

Now I have no excuse for making such mistakes! :)
 
D'oh!!!!

A most excellent chart; Thank you!

Now I have no excuse for making such mistakes! :)


There's so much conflicting information floating around, so it's nice to have one of these tables on hand. I'm glad you found it useful :)
 
Evidently, tramadol is an addictive opioid pain killer. It works great on opiate naive individuals but my only concern is that it is too weak for regular abusers to get high on. The last time I bought some online, I started abusing 1g per day to get high. It loses its potency fast.
 
...meanwhile tolerance for lowering seizure treshold builds up much slower. Beware!!!
 
Once again, tramadol is NOT for the opiate naive. It just depends on the person. I was a hardcore opiate/opioid addict, and then I got a script for tramadol after being in a car wreck. It had a unique simultaneous upper/downer effect and what for me was incredible euphoria that INCREASED through the day as I continued dosing, and it lasted like 8-12 hours to boot! Anyhow, I know it's not for everyone, but every now and then there's a person like me who FUCKING LOVES the shit. Been a favorite ever since, although I haven't touched it in 15 months now, due to a very dangerous addiction that could've killed my ass.
 
IMHO, Tramadol produces very unique effects. I used to absolutely hate it. Now, I prefer it to nothing, but I have found that I dislike it due to how spacey it makes me feel. The main reason I take it is to help alleviate withdrawal symptoms. I enjoy the lingering emotional numbness that comes with the Tramadol, but I absolutely fucking loathe the lack of mental sharpness. I am honestly in complete awe at the fact that some people prefer Tramadol to narcotics for 'recreation'. For physical pain, Tramadol is fantastic. For a legitimate high, I see it as a complete fucking joke.
 
It seems like the effects of Tramadol are somewhat subjective in that some people LOVE it, while others will only use it because there's nothing else or in order to stave off withdrawal. I'm kinda with SideOrderOfOpiates in that I prefer any other opiate to Tramadol, but I did love me some Tramadol for a good 6 months.

I got into the habit of taking Tramadol with Oxy during the day. I found that Tramadol kept me from nodding hard while on Oxy, which was great 9-5. There were obvious problems with such use though and when my Oxy supply dried up, I started using more and more and more Tramadol until things ended in disaster. IMO, Tramadol can be dangerous shit.
 
As said above, you don't need to be opiate naive to enjoy tramadol, but it only seems to work really well on some people, me included. I love the subtle unique effects of it, you can just go on with your day as usual but feeling great and wanting to do all kinds of stuff. My drug of choice usually is oxy but tramdol is a good substitute.
 
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