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Stimulants 4-MMC - a victim of disappearing polymorphism?

Well, you have clearly done your homework. Do these supplements typically contain heavy metals? We don't seem to get them in the UK as even under the 'traditional herbal medicine' loophole, a list of ALL componants (in order of %) still has to be on the livery and in the PIL.
 
I got screwed pretty badly once by a vendor I was ordering MXE from. It was quality stuff. Until I placed that large order and he sent me a bag of inert powder.
I've seen selective scamming, but I also have seen one case when vendor didn't know what he was selling and made good on it. This was just before mephedrone was banned. I got a small order and instead of the needles of the size that I was accustomed to, those crystals were more like large NaCl crystals. Both me and my friend got very unpleasant overstimulation from 250mg oral dosages with no traces of serotonin activation. Felt nauseous. Yet, by that time I had experience with 4-MEC, 4-EMC and several other cathinones. That chemical felt different. When I wrote to the vendor, he asked me what I wanted instead and allowed me to send the stuff back to him and sent me the equal amount of methylone. Since feeling nauseous seems to have been the only side-effect - it's been 16 year - he turned out to be a good guy in the end! :)
 
Well, you have clearly done your homework. Do these supplements typically contain heavy metals? We don't seem to get them in the UK as even under the 'traditional herbal medicine' loophole, a list of ALL componants (in order of %) still has to be on the livery and in the PIL.
You just don't know unless you test. It's an unregulated industry. As a consumer, you get the benefit - lower cost by orders of magnitude. But you also get the risks.
 
In the UK, traditional herbal medicines (THMs) must meet strict safety and quality standards set by the Human Medicines Regulations 2012, enforced by the MHRA. Products must show a Traditional Herbal Registration (THR) number or a Product Licence (PL) number to guarantee safety, quality, and manufacturing standards
 
In the UK, traditional herbal medicines (THMs) must meet strict safety and quality standards set by the Human Medicines Regulations 2012, enforced by the MHRA. Products must show a Traditional Herbal Registration (THR) number or a Product Licence (PL) number to guarantee safety, quality, and manufacturing standards
OK, so it sounds like ginseng supplements sold in UK will have the specifically stated levels of active ginsenosides. But what about things such as various racetams, sources of choline(alpha-gpc, DMAE, etc), modafinil metabolites (CRL-40,940, CRL-40,941), things like Bromantane and PRL-8-53, peptides and the like?

Are these things available? They are not gray area legal highs, but performance enhancers. Fortunately, they are not regulated in US, though big pharma would love that. But there is the other side which I mentioned.
 
I think anytime you use some powder or other drug/supplement you purchased online, you have to accept it’s a gamble. I shudder to think of the crap I must have inadvertently ingested over the decades. Sadly, it’s a consequence you have to accept if you want to use any synthetic mind altering drug, unless you have your own personal GC, NMR, or whatever. That said, I think most of the research chemicals I acquired over the 90s to late 2010s were probably reasonably pure. In the present day, I wouldn’t trust anything I could acquire, except maybe nootropics or peptides. It’s what I most appreciated during the golden age of research chemicals. For the most part, you got what you ordered. Alas, those days are gone forever…
 
I've seen selective scamming, but I also have seen one case when vendor didn't know what he was selling and made good on it.
I knew right away it wasn't MXE. Just from the look and feel of the powder. It went from that high quality pre-UK ban material to what looked like baking powder.

I asked him wtf was up and why he'd done this after we'd been on good terms for so long. He apologized and offered to make it right. But a few weeks before he'd started selling fent. Then there were rumors that he was getting high on his own supply and shortly after that he'd ODed and died. Lots of people complained their orders didn't show up and he was never seen again.

After that I switched to another source for MXE which was really good guy to work with. Thankfully, I didn't lose too much on that scam order. But the quality of the material wasn't as good because the source had switched to a Chinese synth and you could tell it wasn't as pure just by the color. Still fire though. I did a lot of business with that guy until I moved to a state that had banned MXE by name like a week before I moved there. When I tried to order from him again he got spooked by the new address and refused to do business with me any more. I tried to get him to send it to my old address and have it forwarded to my new address from there on my own. But he wouldn't go for it. He assumed I was the police and that was the end of doing business with him.

Probably for the best because at the time I was doing enough MXE on the daily to convince myself that I was going to make history with a speech I planned to give after walking to DC to address the masses on the White House lawn.

It wasn't long after that MXE vanished from the market anyway.
 
I'm sure a lot of others have figured this out but it's worth saying again: If anything interesting comes on to the market that you really like it's a good idea to buy and store 1-2 lifetime supplies of the chemical and keep it in stable conditions. Since you may never ever get a chance to purchase it again. 4-mmc is just one of many substances that have either vanished from the market all together or the "post-ban" version was very different from the original batches going around. Never mind the price hike that comes once a chemical gains legal attention (e.g. $15 a gram substance suddenly sold for $50+ a gram then once fully illegal $100+ a gram for very inferior product).
This is something i wish i had done with MXE: i've never seen a cancer patient go from pain, to walking round to the shops with a smile and not wobbling. Ketamine worked well for pain but she could barely walk. Then once MXE was literally banned worldwide with no real good reason: it disappeared.
The first chemist to re-make real MXE, will be a millionaire. It's got it's on section on DNM's with 0 sellers for some reason. A MASSIVE gap for something with, not just recreational values, but so much medical potential barely anyone saw. So i have a theory that it IS a great: antidepressant, pain killer (even phantom pain) and safer version over ketamine, thus it MUST be banned world wide, perhaps thanks to pharmaceutical industry + good ol' daft drug policy pushing, to stop anyone from discovering those massive benefits over their: antidepressants, pain killers and ketamine.

(also, i do wonder why ket also feels less 'special' these days, it lacks the 'psychedelic k holes' now compared to when india was BLASTING it out everywhere (smuggled in Horlicks tubs lol fucking BBC showed the world's police how the whole operation worked whilst getting a free 10gram sample) and the places producing 's isomer' are actually not producing S isomer but just racemic and calling it that. That or it's just synthed in less purer conditions or its more cut these days (but barely any lab testing places tell you what cuts are in it, only active ingredients and maybe by-products from the bad synths)
 
MXE is patented.

The problem is that it takes an average of 13 years from patent to licence so TBH, it's too late now and while (S) MXE may be patentable, K works most of the time so it doesn't offer a large enough clinical advantage (and (S) MXE would make it more costly).

CMXE however, was patented but that patent expired. BUT importantly, the original CMXE patent does cover it's use as an analgesic so one could in theory patent the usage then evergreen the patent by obtaining a second patent for (S) CMXE - it's even more potent so per-dose is cheaper than K and MXE.
 
MXE is patented.

The problem is that it takes an average of 13 years from patent to licence so TBH, it's too late now and while (S) MXE may be patentable, K works most of the time so it doesn't offer a large enough clinical advantage (and (S) MXE would make it more costly).

CMXE however, was patented but that patent expired. BUT importantly, the original CMXE patent does cover it's use as an analgesic so one could in theory patent the usage then evergreen the patent by obtaining a second patent for (S) CMXE - it's even more potent so per-dose is cheaper than K and MXE.
I cannot find a patent for MXE. Do you have a link to it?
I was marvelling a few days ago at how much Transend Therapeutics simplified methylone synthesis. It is basically a two step reaction with two more purification phases. Everything with an exception of methylamine is available from chemical supply companies as an unwatched chemical. I have not checked any dark marketplaces for about 3 years, but would be surprised if nobody is making it, given how simple the synthesis is.
Methylone being in phase 3 testing, I am really curious how FDA will reclassify it. I assume that they will have to reclassify it, since it is being targeted for a legitimate medical use. I am also very curious what the protocol will be for different patient categories. Without benzo use the agitation tail is about five hours. The afterglow though lasts 2-3 days. And I assume that's what they are looking for PTSD treatment.
 
I believe the MXE patent was written in Chinese. I suspect that at least one reason that it was done that way was so the inventor's name isn't simple to locate and possibly also similar to why McNeil obtained a GB patent for CXME - it proves a prior claim without actually being visible enough to allow someone to rip-off the synthesis.
 
For example, we know the common types of birth control on the market are having far reaching effects because the stuff has ended up in the water supply. But good luck trying to convince half of the population that we need to pull it off the market and that they should change their lifestyles for the greater good at this point. Removing it from the market would provoke the same reaction you get out of gun folks if you tried to yank firearms and ammo out of the market. They would see it as a personal attack on their freedom. So we all just have to live with the fact that all the water is now contaminated and will continue to get more contaminated as more and more of that stuff is pissed out into the world (it isn't just birth control of course, I'm just using it as an example of a hot-button substance).

You's in the US could do what we do in the UK at water treatment facilities and add Ozone / O³ to break down lots of chemicals like pharmaceuticals and other such stuff before it goes back in to the tap water supply instead of just letting it all go in to the rivers, streams and to the sea.
 
Sorry to rewind the thread but I checked and now a GC-MS/NMR set can be yours for about £150.

I don't know why the price has dropped by two thirds in a few years. I KNOW a few extremely dubious laboratories in the US seem to speilize in testing mitragynine derivatives which may hint that there are now enough people who DO pay for instrumental analysis for people to see a market oppotunity and are buying modern, automated systems as part of their start-up. These are more like a production-line and they can (indeed should) be run 24/7. As long as all of the samples are prepared in the daytime, likely a single very lonely post-graduate student will do all of those night-shifts. Not much to do except spot and (if possible) resolve a problem or at worst ensure that if a repair specialist is needed, they can be contacted at 8AM with the goal of getting the system beck up quickly.

I GUESS that is why the price has dropped. HTS isn't new in drug discovery but I would assume that for that to happen, everything else would need to be high-trhoughput to support the process. That being the case, automation is key.

A few even charge by the hour which sounds a bit odd unless they also offer other forms of instumentation that may not be automated. I know when I asked for polarity the lab we used had almost fogotten how to do it which I thought odd as chirality isn't some mystery. Yes, not many RCs were chiral but some of ours were and of course we did look into ring-substituted aMT derivatives so absolutely did need to be certain that what we had whas one enantiomer.
 
You's in the US could do what we do in the UK at water treatment facilities and add Ozone / O³ to break down lots of chemicals like pharmaceuticals and other such stuff before it goes back in to the tap water supply instead of just letting it all go in to the rivers, streams and to the sea.
This is impossible.

Most people in the world are not drinking water from a central supply like you're thinking about. Most waste water is not going through central supplies like this either. The vast majority of people are getting their drinking water from a natural source (river, wells etc.) and their waste water (piss, shit, bathing and even grey water from stuff like washing clothes/doing dishes) is going directly back out into nature.

People like to joke about it but Alex Jones famously ranted about things like birth control "turning the frogs gay". Like most things that idiot is paid to make look like a joke that's a half truth. The reality of the situation is the fact that all the artificial hormones in the environment are turning male frogs into female frogs. This is true of all animals in this closed ecosystem we call the Earth. Note I'm not saying the chemicals are shrinking the frog's penises and turning them into vaginas. What I am saying is that the artificial female hormones we're all coming into contact with are dropping T levels into the basement and causing male animals to exhibit female characteristics.

The effects on the body aren't even the worse part of the problem. The real bad part is the effects on the mind. This is true of both females and males.

Let's limit our discussion to just humans for now. It's well known that T levels in men have been dropping like a stone for generations now. Each new generation of men in the west (probably world wide) has greatly reduced levels of T compared to their fathers. My Dad's T levels are much lower than my Grandfather's and mine are much lower than my own fathers. The generation of men that came after me are lower still.

One can easily see this if they've lived on this planet long enough. Next time you're in public take a good long look at teenage boys walking around today. I noticed this myself about 5-10 years ago. If you look at teenage human males today you'll start to notice some odd things about them. For example, I don't know why it is but the lips on teenage boys now do not look the same as the lips that were on my peers when I was a teenager. It's hard to describe but basically it's like they're all wearing lipstick or something. I couldn't unsee it once I saw it. If you go on youtube you'll see that a lot of teenage-20-something men today have this odd look about their face. They look more boyish than the generation that came before them in the face. Their bodies exhibit similar issues. A very reduced muscle mass on average compared to men from prior generations. Of course there are still outliers but on average they look like wimps compared to the average teenagers from say the 1990s or even the 2000s.

The young men today exhibit very female-like characteristics. Both in body and mind. This isn't caused simply because of women's use of birth control although that is part of it. The big issue is the constant exposure to things like xenoestrogens which leech out of all the plastic containers people drink water from, cook in, and eat food from. It's impossible to go through modern society these days without coming into contact and consuming xenoestrogens all of the time. As a result, children that grow up in a society where plastic is so widely used get exposed to estrogen-like chemicals daily. Which obviously affects their development.

In other words: The men are becoming more like women and the estrogen mimics they're exposed to on the daily is affecting both their body development and their mind development. Then you toss on a bunch of exposure to all manner of other chemicals on top like anti-depressants being pissed out into the water supply and well it's a recipe for disaster.

On the flip side you have women now acting more like men than ever before due to their constant use of hormones for various reasons. Mostly, for birth control purposes. The mental effects of birth control are rarely discussed and are often masked through the use of other substances like anti-depressants and all manner of other pharma drugs. Which is how the pharma industry works and what it prefers. They give you a pill for something then they turn around and give you three more to manage the side effects. If you're interested the mental effects of birth control is a very interesting rabbit hole you might consider going down sometime.

There is a huge stigma about discussing the above topic because any time someone attempts to bring it up you'll get the old

You just want to control what women do with their bodies

Talking point parroted at you. I don't really care what women do or don't do with their own bodies. I don't care about what anyone does with their own body. Provided it doesn't cause harm or ill effects towards me of course. Which the use of all the artificial hormones and hormone therapies does.

I for one think it's a bad idea to throw everyone's hormones out of wack just so people can engage in things they probably shouldn't be doing in the first place. They know they're doing wrong or at the very least doing things that could effect them long term. They want to party and have fun without dealing with the possible consequences of their actions. I think a better approach if they're worried about the consequences is maybe keeping their pants on. It's certainly preferable to screwing up everyone's health. At the very least it would be prudent to study the long term effects of the crap they're taking before shoving so much of it down their throats (or having it embedded within their bodies). I like to have sex to. The difference for me is I don't take some hormone pill then act like it's 1) not having an effect on my mood and 2) don't take personal responsibility for my actions. In other words: If I don't want to sire a child with someone I don't have sex with them in the first place.

Plastic is similar in this respect. Everyone always cries about how awful plastic is and how we're being fucking stupid because it comes from a limited resource (oil). But do you ever see anyone limiting their own daily use of plastic? Refusing to eat food prepared/stored in it or refusing to drink water that was packaged in it? Where are the protests and hoards of people demanding we should return to using glass and other materials known to be safer? Where is the outrage over xenoestrogens causing massive problems for billions of children who have altered development due to the contamination?

You won't see any because people are lazy and if you dare to point out it might be the reason T levels are dropping like a stone across all populations you get lumped in with paid shills like Alex Jones. You're "crazy" for noticing.

The Government(s) are certainly not going to complain about what xenoestrogens are doing. Since they obviously prefer having a population of docile men that act like women and don't have the strength to form an army.

The fact of the matter is over the past 100-150 odd years we've created so many "forever chemicals" and even the ones that aren't forever are causing massive changes in the course of human development. It'll probably be thousands of years before we really understand the effects of all this stuff we're shoving into our bodies then pissing/shitting back out into the environment. The stuff we already know is happening is really bad. It is already causing a crisis in all western nations. Just the stuff we're spraying on crops has already killed untold numbers of insects and many other groups of animals.

Everyone loves to bring up the "lack of access to mental health resources" in the western nations but no one ever wants to get into the nitty gritty and talk about the root causes. People didn't just wake up sometime between the 1990s and the 2020s and collectively decide to lose their minds and start acting out the way people act out now. It's all happening according to plan. Drive them nuts with chemicals/hormones and feed them a daily stream of propaganda. Then turn around and make massive profits treating the symptoms with even more chemicals all of which are mostly only in circulation because of the oil/petrochemical industry. The same industry that convinced entire populations to trade perfectly good things like glass, porcelain, and silverware for plastic. The same industry that spends billions every year lying to you telling you this stuff is perfectly safe while paying shills like Alex Jones to make anyone pointing at the elephant in the room to look crazy by association.

Then there is the whole thing about those same rich people telling you things like you shouldn't breed and trying to convince you that you were born in the wrong body. Trying to shame you for buying a few gallons of gasoline when they're the ones supplying it. Trying to blame you and your fireplace for global warming while they own massive factories shitting out all manner of crap into the air. Factories that mostly produce plastic crap designed to fail within 3 years of purchase which most people only purchase because their propaganda screen tells them they should purchase it.

The doublethink and double talk coming out of those rich people's mouths is enough to make your blood boil. They say word like "liberation" when they really mean "slavery". I'm not saying women collectively had it great up until the so-called "sexual revolution" when birth control first started getting prescribed widely to anyone with a pulse. But "liberation"? C'mon. We all know that's bullshit. Women were not "liberated". Instead, they were brought into the same slavery men had already been enduring for years. What sane person would consider working 9-5 (more like 6-9 in modern life) for minimum wage to be "liberation"? It's slavery by another name. They even try to convince women now that being a mother and a proud homemaker is a horrible form of slavery. In reality, it was the most important "job" on Earth and the most rewarding. It was certainly much better than giving away the best years of your life in exchange for some slips of paper then getting tossed away the moment you were declared obsolete or fired as a cost cutting measure. Similarly, having children is certainly much more rewarding than coming home to an empty home where you now have to prepare your own garbage TV dinner in the very limited free time you have after spending all day working for the man. As much as I love my animals coming home to actual humans that love you is always going to be preferable to a house full of cats.

I rambled but my greater point was this: They tricked women into busting up the family unit. Just like they tricked men. It's why there is so much "battle of the sexes" propaganda nonsense spread around. Similarly, they tricked black people around the same time they tricked women. Busted up the black family unit about 10 years before they busted up the white family units. Told black people they were now "free" when in reality all they did was make everyone into a slave around the middle of the 1800s (at least in America).

All these chemicals and hormones out in the environment today didn't end up there by mistake. They want the men to act like women. The women to act like men. They want us in-fighting along all lines of division. Race, sex, color and creed. They want you confused. They want you childless. They want you to have no real support system. Anything to have you relying and loyal to them over your own blood, neighbors, family and friends.

All that to say: They wouldn't clean up the water supply even if they could. It runs counter to all their long term goals. Even if they could do it they'd deem it to be a waste of "tax payer funds". Why invest into providing clean water and food to the population when you can simply spread around some propaganda that calls anyone crazy who doesn't want to consume your nasty water?

When they first started adding fluoride to public water supplies most communities in America wanted nothing to do with that. We all see how well that turned out. Meanwhile, all the rich families in DC were having non-fluoridated water shipped in to their private homes. Since they didn't want their own children and wives drinking and bathing in that garbage. Since they knew the main purpose of it was to dumb down the general population and get rid of the massive stockpiles of hazardous waste that were produced as a by-product of the aluminum industry. Two birds with one stone. What used to cost millions of dollars to bury deep in the ground is now claimed to be good for your teeth. Pay off some shills to say it's really good for you and just dump it into the local water supply. If you're rich you don't give a fuck anyway. You have access to clean water and you don't have to worry about your own children drinking that garbage. You want the plebs to be as dumb as possible anyway.

Same deal with the food. You're rich. You can afford to buy high quality beef (and other meat) raised free range on some private farm land. Meanwhile, you feed the plebs what amounts to dog food. Keep the livestock intended for them in the most horrible conditions possible. Shoot it up full of hormones and chemicals to fatten it up faster and make the spoiled old beef the perfect shade of red. Then wrap that crap in plastic and ship it to the local wal-mart. Same goes for all the crops. Why bother raising good food when you can raise garbage, spray some chemicals on it and spend a few bucks promoting it on the television? Anyone that points out what you're spraying on it might be harmful is easy enough to talk over. Call them crazy and if that doesn't work simply silence them. Better yet, silence them while making them think they're reaching people. As they do on the major social media networks these days. That way you can prevent their message from spreading while keeping an eye on them. Two birds with one stone: You get to run your evil scheme AND spy on anyone attempting to spread awareness about what you're doing.

My friend used to have a job working for our local water company. All the bags they dump into the water have skull and cross bones all over them. You have to suit up like you're going into a warzone before you touch the stuff. The local water supply here comes out of a river that's been having all manner of bad shit dumped into it for over 200 years now. They give no fucks about our health. Which is why the water I drink comes out of a well on my own property. Not that I can totally trust it. But at least I'm not drinking the stinky river water or buying cases of water wrapped in plastic. I do what I can.
 
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