B9
Bluelight Crew
Gimme a dozen stargazer lilies instead of roses anyday.
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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
Does anyone find this strange?
- Thread starter ambiguity
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3rd_I_blind
Bluelighter
A bit lame to pull this discussion into semantics, but since you only speak English it can't hurt to educate you a bit in your own native language. Continuous means 'without interruption, in an unbroken stream', while constant means 'invariable, uninterrupted'.
Firstly, it is debatable that English is the most spoken language in the world, but that is besides the point I want to make. How very nice that eternity and infinity both have 8 letters, and the figure 8 approximates the symbol for infinity. But English is just a language made up by people, the same people that made up the symbol to represent infinity, and the same people still that adopted the Hindu-Arabic numerals where the figure 8 represents the number eight. There are countless other languages, and in the majority of those languages the terms for infinity and eternity do not have 8 letters.
ambiguity
Greenlighter
L2R maybe you should take a break from drugs too, since as of yet, your only observation was hallucinated out of your ass.
Give me one link or pattern YOU come across "quite a lot" like you claim... god knows i've asked already, before you call mine brainfarts.
Alasdarim it was nice arguing with you. I said in my second post that you make a fine point, and im still leaning towards the uselessness of making observations like these. I didnt say this was my bible or anything, i just enjoy playing the role of the underdog in an arguement and I expected this kind of response. Im not bitching about your critique.
I think its pretty hard to single yourself out with ideas like these, or alternatively, maybe its not so hard... and like you've implied, mine just aren't very intelligent. Terrence Mckenna made oservations like these all the time, though he often went off into detailed explanations.
I didnt say you were an a-hole for pointing out specifics, i just said 'i've got it', and so i wanted to get back to conversation of whether they are wasted efforts. 'i got that too' now, you've illustrated clearly that they are not noteworthy. We dont need to keep repeating ourselves. But anyways, i thought it was a fair attempt at pointing out some peculiarities, Im if sorry they dont spark and interest.
And btw, if you ware saying these are silly whatever... what do u think of taoism, yin-yang and the idea of the inseperable knot? This religion implies that paradoxes should be everywhere, as part of the balance.
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i don't do drugs. the reason i don't post patterns and connections that i see is because they are more as a result of lingering paranoia and psychosis. they are generally rubbish and therefore i won't waste anyone's time with it. i might share with some close friends if i am particularly concerned with some seeming incredible odds, but even still they do not connote anything exceptional on my part.
It's fine to have thoughts that go astray and lead to such places. It is just that when one tries to communicate them, a lot of time and explanation is required for other parties to have a chance at understanding the significance you hold. All of your "observations" are only one or two sentences long and hold plenty of terms and assertions which can easily be contested without some actual substance being added. Do you really expect to convey complex ideas in two sentences?
seriously, you sound like neil from the young ones. "everything is so heavy, man"
the only cases which were clear were rubbished very easily. the number of letters in a word in a modern language is meaningless and arbitrary. certain flowers have evolved thorns is perfectly natural and reasonable. beauty is subjective.
It's fine to have thoughts that go astray and lead to such places. It is just that when one tries to communicate them, a lot of time and explanation is required for other parties to have a chance at understanding the significance you hold. All of your "observations" are only one or two sentences long and hold plenty of terms and assertions which can easily be contested without some actual substance being added. Do you really expect to convey complex ideas in two sentences?
seriously, you sound like neil from the young ones. "everything is so heavy, man"
the only cases which were clear were rubbished very easily. the number of letters in a word in a modern language is meaningless and arbitrary. certain flowers have evolved thorns is perfectly natural and reasonable. beauty is subjective.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
How often do you encounter instances of phenomena that fail to present uncanny coincidences? How often would we expect such coincidences to arise if chance were operating alone?
Herein lies your explanation...
ebola
Herein lies your explanation...
ebola
ambiguity
Greenlighter
L2R, I intentionally shortened my remarks to leave room for further discussion. Although I do agree it take further explaining of such remarks to convince someone who doesnt budge easily.
I dont do drugs either only, psychedelics. Which is why I was somewhat offended by yout implication of me.
Im not trying to be heavy, man. I just picked something I thought would spark a conversation.
To just to clear it up, I've been rubbished over the first and second statements many times over yes, but there are many other mentionables that I think are far more fascinating then those initial ones.
"6. Our dreams stem from information percieved in reality... and reality is merely a chance to chase those dreams. dreams feed off of our wakeful experiences, while reality's most important factor is how sucessful we are at following our dreams7. Hope can exist only in the arms of despair; likewise, Righteousness is the very foundation for wrong-doing. These arguements are stating that one cannot exist without the other, you cant have hope until there is despair first. You need to have a right way of doings things (ex.laws) before someone can disobey and 'do wrong'
10. With the idea of fate on our minds, our 'free will' is directed precisely by our attempts to stray away from a fateful decision. Thus we avoid the entirety of free-will by trying to avoid fate."
this one suggests that free-will cannot exist if someone is tickled my the idea of fate because they will try to do the opposite of what is concieved of them to do.
These ones I would say are more interesting than the number eight idea, and i would totally agree the infintiy one is rubbish. I mean yeah, like you said L2R they are easily debated, but i still say interesting nonetheless.
but regardless these paradoxes are everywhere. People use them to communicate all the time.
I heard a guy in a documentary yesterday say: "Politics is war without blood. War is politics with blood."
I dont waste my time being concerned with paranoias... i think its best to allow your mind to go astray and just be a passive observer of it.
I used to think i was deeply affected by my previous life style, and I came to learn over time that it only further exentuates the 'supposed lingering psychosis' trying to indetify it. Its not a a burden, alice herself said the best people in this world are a little crazy. I hope you feel the same way.
ebola, Im afraid I dont see what you getting at.
Are you saying that coincidences by nature are always going to be strange? please re-word your post for me.
I dont do drugs either only, psychedelics. Which is why I was somewhat offended by yout implication of me.
Im not trying to be heavy, man. I just picked something I thought would spark a conversation.
To just to clear it up, I've been rubbished over the first and second statements many times over yes, but there are many other mentionables that I think are far more fascinating then those initial ones.
"6. Our dreams stem from information percieved in reality... and reality is merely a chance to chase those dreams. dreams feed off of our wakeful experiences, while reality's most important factor is how sucessful we are at following our dreams7. Hope can exist only in the arms of despair; likewise, Righteousness is the very foundation for wrong-doing. These arguements are stating that one cannot exist without the other, you cant have hope until there is despair first. You need to have a right way of doings things (ex.laws) before someone can disobey and 'do wrong'
10. With the idea of fate on our minds, our 'free will' is directed precisely by our attempts to stray away from a fateful decision. Thus we avoid the entirety of free-will by trying to avoid fate."
this one suggests that free-will cannot exist if someone is tickled my the idea of fate because they will try to do the opposite of what is concieved of them to do.
These ones I would say are more interesting than the number eight idea, and i would totally agree the infintiy one is rubbish. I mean yeah, like you said L2R they are easily debated, but i still say interesting nonetheless.
but regardless these paradoxes are everywhere. People use them to communicate all the time.
I heard a guy in a documentary yesterday say: "Politics is war without blood. War is politics with blood."
I dont waste my time being concerned with paranoias... i think its best to allow your mind to go astray and just be a passive observer of it.
I used to think i was deeply affected by my previous life style, and I came to learn over time that it only further exentuates the 'supposed lingering psychosis' trying to indetify it. Its not a a burden, alice herself said the best people in this world are a little crazy. I hope you feel the same way.
ebola, Im afraid I dont see what you getting at.
Are you saying that coincidences by nature are always going to be strange? please re-word your post for me.
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the main issue/the root was wording. always be very careful with the word "is"... and try to come up with ways to make things less narrow, when possible/applicable... in this area.
i find the thoughts interesting, but i'm not sure about what discussion it could start... but maybe i don't know how. very likely that. i don't mind listening though, at all. i might be able to offer bits and pieces, but it'd be up to you guys to put those where they belong.
i believe that many things that we see as contradictory really aren't at other levels. it's all subjective. we seem to use words as placeholders/connection points... drawing sometimes... to make up for our limited understanding or lack of ability to communicate as humans, in this limited form. words work, a lot of the time, but sometimes, such as the word "is", they fail... much of the time.
i don't believe the op is at all "mentally ill", or that he suffer's from delusions of grandeur.
i find the thoughts interesting, but i'm not sure about what discussion it could start... but maybe i don't know how. very likely that. i don't mind listening though, at all. i might be able to offer bits and pieces, but it'd be up to you guys to put those where they belong.
i believe that many things that we see as contradictory really aren't at other levels. it's all subjective. we seem to use words as placeholders/connection points... drawing sometimes... to make up for our limited understanding or lack of ability to communicate as humans, in this limited form. words work, a lot of the time, but sometimes, such as the word "is", they fail... much of the time.
i don't believe the op is at all "mentally ill", or that he suffer's from delusions of grandeur.
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Psychedelics ARE drugs. You sound just like i did when i was doing too much of them. Seriously, moderation is key.
So you believe in duality, that you can't have one "extreme" with the other. Other do not agree and you would need more than an appeal to obviousness to convince them. As for dreams, Freud wrote about the significance of wish-fulfilment in the content of dreams, so you might have that the wrong way around. In dreams people tend to live out both conscious and subconscious desires. In reality we "follow our dreams" is just a turn of phrase, it doesn't mean making what happens in dreams a reality, not all dreams are pleasant. It is about manifesting your desires as well as possible. Dreams have nothing to do with it.
This is just nonsense. Fate = determination, if things are determined, then there is little room for free-will. "They will try to do the opposite of what is conceived of them to do" makes no sense. Stick to free will versus determination to stay clear. How do you define free will? Read up on intentionality.
This is fundamental political theory, and not a paradox at all.
Another note on message forum etiquette, this is not your blog. Pick a subject and stick to it. If any of these ideas were worth exploring they'd make fine threads on their own. If you opt to start threads, the onus is on you to completely express your ideas for proper discussion to take place. Don't be lazy and ...
because all that is left is clarification of what you are trying to say the subject is. Why would others care for your ideas if you can't even express them? And don't get butthurt when people get frustrated by the lack of clarity. If the idea is worth a damn, there would be plenty of room for discussion. Just be prepared to read responses you might not like.
ambiguity
Greenlighter
oh zzzz, whatever L2R. Its all good bro.. please chill out.
Apparently every comment I make is non-sensical in your opinion. Im not even going to try to convince you any further. But since youve raised a new arguement... Ill gladly adress it.
How are psychedelics a drug...?
I think you are yet again, looking at things with your realism point of view.
Yes, L2R they are in the same class known as a 'drug', yet im sure its more than evident how different a traditional drug is compared to a psychedelic (experience-wise especially).
Besides the fact that they affect the chemicals in your brain... they are otherwise, not drugs.
If we we're to include the chemical point of view, then virtually everything ingested is a drug.
Foods affect brain chemistry, vitamins affect brain chemistry. Even every day acts like meditation or going to sleep will release certain chemicals in your brain.
Now If we extract the chemistry point of view, then what else defines a drug?
drugs are generally percieved as something with addictive properties. In which case psychedelics would not fit the qualification.
You can't use psychedelics every hour or each day the same way you can smoke a cigarette or shoot up heroin.
Moderation is not 'key'. Its actually enforced.
People who would actually take lsd, shrooms, 2C-x's, DOx's day after day are so few in numbers its virtually unmentionable.
Psychedelics dont affect your physical body negatively, They dont promote negative feelings or thought-processes (like depression, laziness, weakness etc.)
They are exempt from every stigma that is to call something a 'drug'.
Although they do alter your perception of your surroundings while on them, that's about it.
There are little or no known lingering effects of psychedelics both physical and psychological.
You may choose to argue that they affect you psychologically... I would say yes, but not in a negative way. More people say they stimulate your thoughts, rather than depress or off-put them.
I truly believe that anyone who tries to preach about psychedelics, either hasn't done enough of them or has some clandestine reason to hate on them.
Like maybe they had a bad trip and so they never did them again, or maybe they choose to blame them for a 'lingering psychosis'.
The hallucinogen and especially, tryptamine experience... is supposed to be a humbling one.
You can throw your moderation out the window, because I ain't gonna play that shit.
I say do them as often as you like.
I say do them every fucking day if you can, because i sure as hell know I dont have the guts for it.
I mean... if you really have THAT MUCH of an ego...
if you REALLY are that fucking 'G'...
to take ayahuasca every day... or to munch down a quarter of shrooms every week... Or to throw yourself into a game of psychedelic russian roulette...
than more the power to you.
Fuck moderation. Take that shit to the opiate section, I dont want to hear it.
Apparently every comment I make is non-sensical in your opinion. Im not even going to try to convince you any further. But since youve raised a new arguement... Ill gladly adress it.
How are psychedelics a drug...?
I think you are yet again, looking at things with your realism point of view.
Yes, L2R they are in the same class known as a 'drug', yet im sure its more than evident how different a traditional drug is compared to a psychedelic (experience-wise especially).
Besides the fact that they affect the chemicals in your brain... they are otherwise, not drugs.
If we we're to include the chemical point of view, then virtually everything ingested is a drug.
Foods affect brain chemistry, vitamins affect brain chemistry. Even every day acts like meditation or going to sleep will release certain chemicals in your brain.
Now If we extract the chemistry point of view, then what else defines a drug?
drugs are generally percieved as something with addictive properties. In which case psychedelics would not fit the qualification.
You can't use psychedelics every hour or each day the same way you can smoke a cigarette or shoot up heroin.
Moderation is not 'key'. Its actually enforced.
People who would actually take lsd, shrooms, 2C-x's, DOx's day after day are so few in numbers its virtually unmentionable.
Psychedelics dont affect your physical body negatively, They dont promote negative feelings or thought-processes (like depression, laziness, weakness etc.)
They are exempt from every stigma that is to call something a 'drug'.
Although they do alter your perception of your surroundings while on them, that's about it.
There are little or no known lingering effects of psychedelics both physical and psychological.
You may choose to argue that they affect you psychologically... I would say yes, but not in a negative way. More people say they stimulate your thoughts, rather than depress or off-put them.
I truly believe that anyone who tries to preach about psychedelics, either hasn't done enough of them or has some clandestine reason to hate on them.
Like maybe they had a bad trip and so they never did them again, or maybe they choose to blame them for a 'lingering psychosis'.
The hallucinogen and especially, tryptamine experience... is supposed to be a humbling one.
You can throw your moderation out the window, because I ain't gonna play that shit.
I say do them as often as you like.
I say do them every fucking day if you can, because i sure as hell know I dont have the guts for it.
I mean... if you really have THAT MUCH of an ego...
if you REALLY are that fucking 'G'...
to take ayahuasca every day... or to munch down a quarter of shrooms every week... Or to throw yourself into a game of psychedelic russian roulette...
than more the power to you.
Fuck moderation. Take that shit to the opiate section, I dont want to hear it.
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3rd_I_blind
Bluelighter
Famous last words...
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
ambiguity said:
No. What I meant is that in a system of meaning structured entirely by chance, one would expect seemingly uncanny synchronicities and paradoxes to arise as well. Given that such phenomena tend to appear salient in human memory and perception, while we tend to disregard and ignore instances where things seem meaningless or mundane, we should expect ourselves to overestimate the frequency of such uncanny occurrences.
Thus, what seems strange might well actually be mundane.
ebola
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
ambiguity said:
It seems to me that it is primarily you who are preaching about psychedelics in this thread.
ebola
ambiguity
Greenlighter
ebola, thank you for re-wording.
Now that I understand what you mean, I really cant argue the logic. Its similar to the way we're visually attracted to symmetry, and so we automatically point it out and find it so much more exciting.
To quote the 3rd grader who got into a fight during recess: "I didn't do it first."
I had a feeling I might come off as preaching, but I just got tired of being told I do too many drugs.
Im sorry for internalizing the matter... its just that I get heated up specifically with anything pertaining to psychedelics.
It offends me, because I think the world of them.
Like I said in my previous post... so much of what I've come to learn from my experiences with them, has humbled me.
And so... I really cant imagine how someone can tell me Im an idiot... and basically that my point of view is invalid because I take these so-called 'drugs'.
Call me preachy if you will, but I wasnt trying to tell other ppl they should take them or that they are lesser people for not liking them.
However, I will defend myself after a certain point, and of course im going to make a spectacle of it.
Now that I understand what you mean, I really cant argue the logic. Its similar to the way we're visually attracted to symmetry, and so we automatically point it out and find it so much more exciting.
To quote the 3rd grader who got into a fight during recess: "I didn't do it first."
I had a feeling I might come off as preaching, but I just got tired of being told I do too many drugs.
Im sorry for internalizing the matter... its just that I get heated up specifically with anything pertaining to psychedelics.
It offends me, because I think the world of them.
Like I said in my previous post... so much of what I've come to learn from my experiences with them, has humbled me.
And so... I really cant imagine how someone can tell me Im an idiot... and basically that my point of view is invalid because I take these so-called 'drugs'.
Call me preachy if you will, but I wasnt trying to tell other ppl they should take them or that they are lesser people for not liking them.
However, I will defend myself after a certain point, and of course im going to make a spectacle of it.
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lulzkiller
Bluelighter
ambiguity: You know that feeling where you just suddenly hum the tune of an old song that you used to sing with your childhood friend and then call him to remind him. But then, to make it even more strange, he calls you at nearly the same time to tell you that he has just done exactly what you were going to tell him that you'd just done?
If your answer to this situation or an analogous one is "yes, I know this. How could this ever possibly just be mere coincidence?" And you're completely right! It is pretty amazing that stuff like this happens.
But have you ever noticed how many times this situation hasn't occurred? If we, humans in general, were as good at noticing all the random, boring everyday shit in life as we are at noticing freak occurrences, then we'd be pretty busy. We'd have to comment on how, for the umpteenth time, our friend didn't make a near-simultaneous call on the phone. Pretty boring, eh? And also pretty worthless from an evolutionary point of view.
(edit: I should read at least just the last few responses; ebola already made the point quite well)
If your answer to this situation or an analogous one is "yes, I know this. How could this ever possibly just be mere coincidence?" And you're completely right! It is pretty amazing that stuff like this happens.
But have you ever noticed how many times this situation hasn't occurred? If we, humans in general, were as good at noticing all the random, boring everyday shit in life as we are at noticing freak occurrences, then we'd be pretty busy. We'd have to comment on how, for the umpteenth time, our friend didn't make a near-simultaneous call on the phone. Pretty boring, eh? And also pretty worthless from an evolutionary point of view.
(edit: I should read at least just the last few responses; ebola already made the point quite well)
If you don't understand my responses to your two special examples, then you don't understand your own ideas. My responses are constructive, and have nothing to do with your drug use. .
It seems there is much you don't want to hear. Coming from someone who abused psychedelics in the past, you are looking forward to a whole lot of trauma. Lady Lucy does not take too kindly to abuse.
No amount of faux gung-ho in your posts can hide the scared little boy who thinks too highly of himself.
now either pick a topic or stop trolling
it seems to me that you take things way too personally.
further, and with all due respect, you say psychedelics humbled you but, to me, there's very little humility on display in your posts in this thread...
alasdair
ambiguity
Greenlighter
How do you extract that Im a 'scared little boy' from a couple posts I make?
Have you considered a major in psychology?
Or is it just obvious to you that faux gung-ho = scared children?
Well... Let me draw the conclusion that only dull 'regular-sized' peoples, make assumptions like you do.
L2R, you have only further given me credit with your last post.
I said that moderation is not key, because it's enforced.
yes, you can get a pretty nasty smack for abusing things like LSD.
But after someone has done it once, they learn from they're mistakes.
They dont go running back to it like an addict just out of rehab.
You are literally forced to mediate your psychedelic use, because of the way the drugs begin to treat you if over-consumed
abuse and psychedelic use have no correlation.
Alasdair your trying to imply im not humble, but humility has little to do with being humble.
It has helped to provocate humbling feelings in some people yes, but there are other ways people are humbled.
Feeling powerless, weak, vulnerable etc.
Tell me how someone makes a comment about how they feel about themselves, and suddenly people want to pounce on it and rip it apart.
like I deserve to know how not fucking humble I really am.
I think it's just that some ppl get a real itching in they're neck when they hear someone say things like:
Im humble or Im a good christian or I'm really healthy or I'm artistic etc.
It's spiteful I guess you could say.
For the record, it would be very difficult to get into an arguement and still appear humble. The wording would need be excercised with much caution.
I dont understand how I'm trolling. Arent we just letting the conversation evolve naturally, and enjoying it?
Have you considered a major in psychology?
Or is it just obvious to you that faux gung-ho = scared children?
Well... Let me draw the conclusion that only dull 'regular-sized' peoples, make assumptions like you do.
L2R, you have only further given me credit with your last post.
I said that moderation is not key, because it's enforced.
yes, you can get a pretty nasty smack for abusing things like LSD.
But after someone has done it once, they learn from they're mistakes.
They dont go running back to it like an addict just out of rehab.
You are literally forced to mediate your psychedelic use, because of the way the drugs begin to treat you if over-consumed
abuse and psychedelic use have no correlation.
Alasdair your trying to imply im not humble, but humility has little to do with being humble.
It has helped to provocate humbling feelings in some people yes, but there are other ways people are humbled.
Feeling powerless, weak, vulnerable etc.
Tell me how someone makes a comment about how they feel about themselves, and suddenly people want to pounce on it and rip it apart.
like I deserve to know how not fucking humble I really am.
I think it's just that some ppl get a real itching in they're neck when they hear someone say things like:
Im humble or Im a good christian or I'm really healthy or I'm artistic etc.
It's spiteful I guess you could say.
For the record, it would be very difficult to get into an arguement and still appear humble. The wording would need be excercised with much caution.
I dont understand how I'm trolling. Arent we just letting the conversation evolve naturally, and enjoying it?
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mods please re-title thread to: the ambiguity denial thread
it's far more appropriate because it seems to be the only ongoing subject matter, one for which i couldn't give two shits about. so i will no longer be participating.
good luck in all of your endeavours, little boy. you need it.
it's far more appropriate because it seems to be the only ongoing subject matter, one for which i couldn't give two shits about. so i will no longer be participating.
good luck in all of your endeavours, little boy. you need it.
humility: the quality or state of being humble.
humility has everything to do with being humble. it's the very definition of the word!
i'm not trying to imply you're not humble - i'm saying it straight up. i - along with merriam-webster - will agree to disagree with you.
alasdair
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