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Is christianity/catholicism at risk?

tommy34

tommy34

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
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313
Hi all, firstly I would like to point out that I have a very limited knowledge of this subject.

Okay so from what I've heard from younger Christians compared to older Christians is that there are people that follow the book to the letter and then there are people who don't take the book so literally. What I mean by this is that some people refuse to see some things, like evolution, as fact. Some on the other hand see this as a possibility but argue that the bible is made up of metaphors.

So, if these two groups do exist within the church, is there a possibility that these groups will divide the church thus rendering and value the church has irrelevant. What I mean by this is, if there are two groups within one organization following different beliefs, then both are arguably wrong.

I'm not sure if thats a dumb thing to ask or not because I'm not very familiar with the workings of the church.
 
tommy34 said:
Hi all, firstly I would like to point out that I have a very limited knowledge of this subject.

Okay so from what I've heard from younger Christians compared to older Christians is that there are people that follow the book to the letter and then there are people who don't take the book so literally. What I mean by this is that some people refuse to see some things, like evolution, as fact. Some on the other hand see this as a possibility but argue that the bible is made up of metaphors.

So, if these two groups do exist within the church, is there a possibility that these groups will divide the church thus rendering and value the church has irrelevant. What I mean by this is, if there are two groups within one organization following different beliefs, then both are arguably wrong.

I'm not sure if thats a dumb thing to ask or not because I'm not very familiar with the workings of the church.
Click to expand...

Thats why there are so many sects. catholic, roman catholic, lutheran, baptist, jehova. blah blah blah.
It doesn't matter, the book is based on astrology and myths stolen from the Mesopotamians and Egyptians.
 
i love this thread

yes, Christianity id say is in trouble, not Catholicism, not so much, though. for the exact reasons you have described Tommy34 - the Bible, the "Christian Bible" is one of the most amazingly insightful powerful pieces of writing i have read.

people seem to think Eastern faiths are the cool thing, and Christianity is timid BS. but no, the way i interpret the Bible reading it, is fluid insightful brilliance, the same as i feel about reading the Vedas - i could never ignore either.

what HipHopHippy said is true about there being numerous sects, but the thing with Catholicism is, the reason it is so protected and solidified, is their many silent supporters.
 
I read the aim of religion in a society is to act as an immune system, protecting the social order from other, potentially dangerous ideologies. It's like a bacteria that establishes itself and wards off foreign bacteria. The question is whether the bacteria that has already colonized your society is good. All things considered, I'd called Christianity one of the more docile and friendly bacterias that has a lot of good to offer, especially when you weigh the alternatives. Just look at the way the Nazi regime infected Germany. The first thing they did was make the leaders out to be Gods, and any nail that sticks out would be hammered down. Negative ideologies are opportunists and will infect the weak societies first. Christianity must remain strong, or else something will overpower it and destroy it. Not saying this would be bad, as I'm not Christian or religious for the matter, but I think Christianity does offer something beneficial and I'm not prepared to see what else can get its foot in the door.

Those who fail to read the riddles and symbols in the Bible and take it literally are stupid. There is a lot to offer if you're able to read between the lines. "God's" word has been embedded in story form, since words themselves are dead, mean nothing, and can't possibly convey a divine message the way it was intended.
 
fridgebuzz said:
There is a lot to offer if you're able to read between the lines. "God's" word has been embedded in story form, since words themselves are dead, mean nothing, and can't possibly convey a divine message the way it was intended.
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this is why i think the Pauperium was/is important.
when i was 9-10 y/o i read part of the OT, and remember being blown away, then reading it again recently, the thought came to mind many times as to why i had never read it since?!?

... i see now i just wasnt ready, i love to open it up and start reading a several passages and then put it down. what i get out of what i had read, will change meaning through out the day - i was directed to learn about Hawkins Radiation theory recently too, and that seems straight from the Bible in the most simple of terms.

' you increase i decrease '
' you take one step towards God, God takes 1000 steps towards you '

^is paraphrased, and so simple it just seems rudimentary and passe...
;-)
 
he tried...

33 Then they came to Capernaum. When He was in the house, He asked them, "What were you arguing about on the way?" 34 But they were silent, because on the way they had been arguing with one another about who was the greatest. 35 Sitting down, He called the Twelve and said to them, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be last of all and servant of all." 36 Then He took a child, had him stand among them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, 37 "Whoever welcomes one little child such as this in My name welcomes Me. And whoever welcomes Me does not welcome Me, but Him who sent Me."
 
fridgebuzz said:
I read the aim of religion in a society is to act as an immune system, protecting the social order from other, potentially dangerous ideologies. It's like a bacteria that establishes itself and wards off foreign bacteria.
Click to expand...

Nice analogy! I never thought about it quite like that.

fridgebuzz said:
Those who fail to read the riddles and symbols in the Bible and take it literally are stupid. There is a lot to offer if you're able to read between the lines. "God's" word has been embedded in story form, since words themselves are dead, mean nothing, and can't possibly convey a divine message the way it was intended.
Click to expand...

I was raised Catholic and attended Catechism. It was taught to us literally and we were not allowed to try and interpret the meaning behind the words. Perhaps if they started teaching the true meaning of religion and not just the literal rules, people might not dismiss it once they begin to think for themselves.
 
AfterGlow said:
Nice analogy! I never thought about it quite like that.



I was raised Catholic and attended Catechism. It was taught to us literally and we were not allowed to try and interpret the meaning behind the words. Perhaps if they started teaching the true meaning of religion and not just the literal rules, people might not dismiss it once they begin to think for themselves.
Click to expand...


yeah, that is rather contradictory to what i posted above...

i have a New Catholic Answer Bible(NAB), and i love it, dont get me wrong, but reading this amazing book and then there being glossed pages of interpretations and these childish typical explanations was too much - i removed them.

i just opened it up, and began reading:
"Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten Virgins who took
their lamps and went out to meet their Bridegroom -
Five of them were foolish and five were wise."
Matt 25:1

___________________
and i agree, that is a great analogy.

Edit:
BTW ;) why if they started teaching the true meaning of religion and not just the literal rules;
it is we in here...
 
AfterGlow said:
Nice analogy! I never thought about it quite like that.



I was raised Catholic and attended Catechism. It was taught to us literally and we were not allowed to try and interpret the meaning behind the words. Perhaps if they started teaching the true meaning of religion and not just the literal rules, people might not dismiss it once they begin to think for themselves.
Click to expand...

Teaching people to think for themselves is the opposite of what they want to do. Thats one of the many reasons that people leave the church
 
The Catholic Church is an ancient institution with a rich history and culture, which in my opinion is its main appeal. But will all that history save the Catholic Church? That is to say, will all that history do the church any good in fighting off corruptive forces from within, or increased and unprecedented pressures from the world outside? It's hard to say. On the one hand, reformers need only appeal to the many examples in history of the church of mavericks who succeeded in changing it, as well as the ones who failed and were instead branded heretics and shunned. This would serve as a very good guide to what works and what doesn't work in pressuring the church to change. On the other hand, all that history so well-documented serves as a millstone around the Church's neck, providing ample reasons for leaders to drag their feet against change.

The fact is, at least in the US where I live, the Catholic Church is not doing a very good job providing for modern day people's spiritual or communal needs. And as such, it's second-rate religion. I went to several Catholic masses recently for family functions (most recently a baptism), and found it one of the most tepid and boring experiences imaginable. All the vibrancy and sense of connection to something greater was gone. The priest had no passion at all, and preached a dense, abstract, arcane, pretentiously deep sermon at (not to) a roomful of mostly poor, recent immigrants with a poor command of either English or theology. They all sat there glazed and overtired, making feeble attempts to keep their kids from talking and climbing the pews, simply because they'd been raised Catholic and still felt compelled to go.

But many people are now finding their fire better lit elsewhere, by religious (and secular) institutions that meet people where they're at, right here right now. There are groups and ideologies that are doing a far better job relating ancient stories and timeless words of wisdom with real world problems that are on people's minds today.

For one thing, I don't think most modern day Westerners relate to the archaic way the Catholic Church handles authority and decision making. Ideally, if you're going to belong to a religious group, the most fitting one is one whose political structure and chain of command mirror those of the secular institutions to which its faithful belong. Why? Because this is what will make the faithful feel most familiar and at home. A fire and brimstone preacher will reach people who were raised in houses where backtalking got you beaten, and who work for bosses who don't pay workers to think and tolerate no deviation. A circle of cushions around a sacred fire with a talking stick will appeal to people raised in houses where children were encouraged to speak freely and be spontaneous, and to people who work in companies where there's no dress code and decisions are made by consensus. But the Catholic Church is just alien in this regard. Parallels could certainly be drawn to the power structure of European feudalism and nobility. Also, I think the Catholic Church's robust popularity in pre-1960s America could very well have come from its institutional similarities to big industry, for which most Catholic Americans worked at that time. But nowadays, I think the Church's intrigues and internal machinations strike most Catholics as an anachronism.

I do think the Catholic Church has a future, just because it's so large and has such a lengthy history that enough people care about preserving. But it will probably smolder on as a much smaller institution, by orders of magnitude. It wouldn't surprise me if the church declined down to a couple million loyal and fervent keepers of the fire for a few centuries, before either experiencing a revival or burning out entirely.
 
Zora Astra was once the main religion on earth, and is one of the oldest. It was displaced by Islam. Religion is for social stability, but mainly against monarchical power disruptions. The view of a permanent all seeing god creates a social fabric that isnt subject to assassination or deaths. It holds a society together during changes in power.

In the movie religulous by Bill Maher, the Catholics definitely seem to be the most level headed. One vatican priest is interviewed and he said "A poll was conducted, as to who Italians pray to when things are going wrong, and Jesus was #6. Talk about cafeteria catholics".

I have a friend who was an austrian exchange student, and he said they all used to tithe at 15% of their income. But that the little boy scandals caused a lot of people to "cut off" the church.

Its true christianity is waning in most western nations. But america has more people going to church, more often than at any time in its history.

Ben Franklin "Lighthouses are more useful than churches"
 
^
God didnt write the Bible
i assume you know yourself
;-)
to me, the Bible is only Mans allegorical interpretation of our belief in our existence, describing it the best way we could at the Time..personally i feel that the Pauperum(pictorial bible) was taken advantage of..and used to help re-write the Bible again. only now from the fresh POV of many complex pictures, and as it is said a picture can lie a thousand words.

especially in the 'Dark Ages' hahaha



so, the word of Man & God, the book of the Veil, the book of Illumination, is also the Apocalytpsis Biblia and that just sound progressively more scary as it moves on in the evolution of our concept/mind, which usually is not to be trusted<3 this IMO is the hat-trick of our lives, that will finally shut the globe from rolling.


what i mean to say is that if the state of these faiths is believed in as is much longer we are in more trouble the Ol Jesus is...
:-x
 
Jesus said to Peter, re the church, that 'the gates of hell ( lit Hades) would not prevail against it.
( matt 16)

If we are to believe His words then theres nothing that the church cant survive.
 
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cautioususer
People are so concerned bout their own man made sect they lose sight at the Bible and what it's words have to say from a holistic approach.
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he even seemed to become frustrated, back then...
xX

Matthew 9:33
33 Then they came to Capernaum. When He was in the house, He asked them, "What were you arguing about on the way!?!?" 34 But they were silent, because on the way they had been arguing with one another about who was the greatest. 35 Sitting down, He called the Twelve and said to them, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be last of all and servant of all." 36 Then He took a child, had him stand among them, and taking him in His arms, He said to them, 37 "Whoever welcomes one little child such as this in My name welcomes Me. And whoever welcomes Me does not welcome Me, but Him who sent Me."
Click to expand...

IDK, i guess it can be easier to believe in fiction, rather then truth-once you accept your most dreaded fears, you find your most blessed realities...
let go let love be free
 
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