nervousone
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2009
- Messages
- 414
Alcohol withdrawal can kill you so saying kratom is worse is kind of a stretch.
I guess im not saying it's worse, just saying that it lasted forever (in my experience) I'll edit that. But I wouldn't be surprised if a really heavy kratom wd could do some damage, I mean 180/110 bp is nearing stroke territory, just my body chemistry I guess...Alcohol withdrawal can kill you so saying kratom is worse is kind of a stretch.
I've experienced withdrawals from both long iv heroin binges and long kratom binges, as well as wd's from other opiates.. In my opinion, withdrawals from UEI kratom are actually worse than those from heroin, and it's for the same reason that pod tea wd's are worse than those from morphine.. That reason is that with heroin and morphine, your body gets addicted to just one chemical. With UEI kratom, as well as with pod tea, your body gets addicted to a cocktail of chemicals.
People that have withdrawn from kratom, what's the average length of withdrawal? I'm seeing numbers from 3-4 days to a month or longer. I'm sure the longer cases are PAWS, but I'm on day 8 right now and still feeling pretty poor if I don't take my loperamide. The headaches are really the most bothersome thing at this point in time, very different to withdrawal from classic opiates IMO. Anyway, I'm trying to get a feel for how long most people's withdrawal lasts. It is certainly not the same as withdrawal from other opiates...
Well, I'm past the 72 hour mark since I've last had kratom, and for the most part, it is bearable. I have been taking 15-20 grams of kratom once daily for the past 9-10 months, and before that used it 3-5 times a week for about a year with breaks here and there. The withdrawals aren't that bad, at all for me. I have found that a potent batch of kava root is a great ally for the RLS, depression and insomnia.
I think that some people in this thread need to make it very clear that there is a distinction between withdrawals from plain leaf kratom and from kratom extracts. Kratom extracts can cause a dependence that is just as difficult to break as moderately strong opiates. Yet, plain leaf kratom will create a rather weak dependence, especially if it is faithfully taken only once a day. The main reason why plain leaf kratom is most forgiving, is because its alkaloid profile is rather high in opiod and NMDA antagonists, while kratom extracts tend to be very low in opiod and NMDA antagonists. One can tell this is so if they take a lot of plain leaf. There is a ceiling effect with plain leaf, such that one doesn't get a pleasant euphoric/mood-lifting effect past a certain point, and that is partially due to a saturation limit of mitragynine and 7-ho-mitragynine at the mu- and delta- opiod receptors, mitraphylline's effects as a NMDA antagonist which has a tendency to lower one's tolerance to the mu and delta opiod agonist effects of mitragynine and 7-ho-mitragynine, AND because of Corynantheidine's opiod antagonist effect, which ultimately is what limits the saturation point by which mitragynine and 7-ho-mitragynine can reach with mu- and delta- opiod receptors. On the other hand, if one takes extracts like UEI, FST, among other legitimate extracts, the ceiling effect is very high, and indeed, one will feel very high. Further, if one sticks to just extracts, they will find that it is very difficult to maintain a certain level of inebriation with a consistent dose, day after day, and they will keep taking more and more. Therefore, everyone should avoid taking kratom extracts daily as much as possible. If anything is going to get kratom banned, it will be the extracts.
To alleviate withdrawals, one can do more than just consume kava root. I highly recommend that a person withdrawing from kratom exercises, a lot. This will stimulate endorphin production, and can encourage endogenous endorphin pathways by which the body regulates pain. Further, one should obviously eat healthy, and eat often, as it will only hasten recovery. Finally, a person withdrawing from kratom should try to read extensively, and train oneself in meditation. Reading will strengthen one's concentration, and meditation will benefit from that increased concentration and combat the insomnia by which one suffers the most. If a person could sleep, withdrawal would be much more manageable. So, above all, one should always focus on ways by which one could sleep better, even if that means one would have to take diphenhydramine, kava, doxylamine succinate, valerian root, melatonin, alcohol (try to limit this to once every 2-3 nights), among other tools.
Finally, withdrawal is only as hard as you make it. I have seen proof of that from people that have been in abrupt discontinuation withdrawal from long-term benzodiazepine "therapy," and they still went to work, and tried to keep a smile on their face. The human mind is capable of tremendous things, and one should never discount the option that there are different approaches to one's suffering. Some approaches can annihilate a person's connection to it, and as a result, limit the affect the suffering has on the individual. Subjective suffering is measured by a constantly changing yardstick that is partially dependent on one's genetics (some people are blessed to not have ever experienced withdrawal despite being in a situation that would guarantee it for others) and mostly dependent on one's ability to cope with suffering. Something to keep in mind.