• S E X
    L O V E +
    R E L A T I O N S H I P S


    ❤️ Welcome Guest! ❤️


    Posting Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • SLR Moderators: Senior Staff

I'm a borderline. Can I ever have a relationship?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SLR
  • Start date Start date
^ The events that caused it are irrelevant? They most certainly are not. They are why you are the way you are.

Anyway, I guess I better get some kind of degree so my credentials will be not be attacked rather than my words. Not once has the understanding> acknowledgement> integration process that I've centered on been discussed. This is what a psychologist will try to do too. I'm just giving this information in a different setting. I don't see how the source of this concept really matters... Why can only a psychologist help, then?
 
understanding> acknowledgement> integration

That's great, but knowing that process is not nearly enough. You need a counselor to do it, because they actually know what they are doing, and they have the ability to see things that people with severely distorted thinking and emotions can't see.

There is a hell of a lot more to it then acceptance and integration. And there is a big difference between knowing something, and being able to actually do it.
 
Your credentials? Really? Outside of one small comment, that has never been the focus of my posts. What you're saying is not borne out by anyone who has studied or lived the condition and at very least what you're describing is a near-miraculous exception - not something that is applicable to most who suffer from this.
 
marsmellow said:
understanding> acknowledgement> integration

That's great, but knowing that process is not nearly enough. You need a counselor to do it, because they actually know what they are doing, and they have the ability to see things that people with severely distorted thinking and emotions can't see.

There is a hell of a lot more to it then acceptance and integration. And there is a big difference between knowing something, and being able to actually do it.
Click to expand...

You're right, it should be explained a little more in detail. Here's my attempt:

Three stages of recovery from a mood disorder as I see them, along with what the patient's mindset should be at each stage:

1) Acceptance of the problem - "My personality is seriously limiting me and I'd like to fix it. I have some hard work cut out for me." (Note that this is the stage that I've been rallying against being encouraged. It is the stage to which drugs like benzos are almost guaranteed to limit development.)
2) Understanding of the cause of the issue - "My life has been pretty crazy at times. I survived, but I definitely have some baggage. I understand now the baggage I am carrying and will work to improve the parts of my personality that have been erected in defense of my past. I will not blame myself for my personality quirks but rather my past, and now that I understand the issue I can grow past it."
3) Integration of understanding into life - "I'm trying a lot of different things to make my personality less defensive. I'm making mistakes but learning from each of them. I'm not worried about the mistakes though as I'm thrilled that I have freed myself from my past. I've matured past this finally and I'm going to live life to the fullest."

Maybe there are some people that are incapable of progressing in this manner. I'm not convinced that this is a majority however, especially given that there is variance between what different doctors classify as BPD or other mood disorders (shows BPD / mood disorders are not exact, understood things but rather tendencies). BPD may be a rather extreme mood disorder but as long as there is not cognitive disorder, the person is still rational and can improve their faults once they are understood (step 2).
 
Last edited:
^ no body with BPD is capable of progressing in that manner. It's actually funny to me that you think you can mentally hypothesize more effective treatment then every person who has dedicated their life to studying and treating this condition. Why do you insist on making up your own meanings for terms like mood or cognitive disorder when these have official designations? On the wikipedia page for cognitive disorders it even says, "Mood disorders such as depression and bipolar disorder are also cognitive mental disorders." in the first paragraph.

Oh and since we're tossing out superfluous change models, this is the one I was taught -

1.) precontemplation
2.) contemplation
3.) preparation
4.) action
5.) maintenance.

(this is often followed by 6.) relapse but it's left out because it's not a necessary stage)

EDIT:

I thought this site that outlines the difference between a mood disorder and a personality disorder may be useful.

If you notice, BPD is in the same cluster (B) as antisocial personality disorder... do you really think you can use your model above to get a sociopath to start having empathy? No... much the same way you can't change the erratic mood variability, quick fuse for any emotion (not just anger) and other hallmark traits of BPD with a simple model alone.
 
Last edited:
^You don't agree, I get it. You still are having trouble with the very first thing I tried to correct of your criticism: that I was using the cognitive vs mood disorder classification instead of the DSM. Remember the whole "I disagree with DSM classifications" argument? FFS, they cluster sociopathy in the same category as BPD. Not the same thing at all.

How do you think models get created, Cane? Someone thinks that shit up. I'm not saying that my way is the only way, but if you read it, it makes sense and applies to a large percentage of mood disorders (yes, the way I defined mood disorders). I notice you didn't criticize the logic.

If one person reads that and is helped by it, I'll be happy as can be.
 
^ people who devote their lives to studying and understanding the subject create the models that I trust.

How about if 1 person (or 5 or 10 or 50) reads your model, buys into it and doesn't seek necessary intervention leaving them worse off... still happy?
 
Pegasus said:
You're right, it should be explained a little more in detail. Here's my attempt:

Three stages of recovery from a mood disorder as I see them, along with what the patient's mindset should be at each stage:

1) Acceptance of the problem - "My personality is seriously limiting me and I'd like to fix it. I have some hard work cut out for me." (Note that this is the stage that I've been rallying against being encouraged. It is the stage to which drugs like benzos are almost guaranteed to limit development.)
2) Understanding of the cause of the issue - "My life has been pretty crazy at times. I survived, but I definitely have some baggage. I understand now the baggage I am carrying and will work to improve the parts of my personality that have been erected in defense of my past. I will not blame myself for my personality quirks but rather my past, and now that I understand the issue I can grow past it."
3) Integration of understanding into life - "I'm trying a lot of different things to make my personality less defensive. I'm making mistakes but learning from each of them. I'm not worried about the mistakes though as I'm thrilled that I have freed myself from my past. I've matured past this finally and I'm going to live life to the fullest."

Maybe there are some people that are incapable of progressing in this manner. I'm not convinced that this is a majority however, especially given that there is variance between what different doctors classify as BPD or other mood disorders (shows BPD / mood disorders are not exact, understood things but rather tendencies). BPD may be a rather extreme mood disorder but as long as there is not cognitive disorder, the person is still rational and can improve their faults once they are understood (step 2).
Click to expand...
No offense, but you're giving bad advice and making big theories based on a very limited understanding of the subject.

First, BPD is not a mood disorder, it's a personality disorder. Bi-polar and clinical depression are mood disorders. BPD is not. It's a personality disorder and one of the big symptoms is really intense emotions and massive mood swings.

Second, BPD is a cognitive disorder. So is depression. So is panic disorder. They all have cognitive problems in common. (BPD might not actually fit the technical definition, since it's a personality disorder, but I think it should qualify.)

Third, there isn't this distinction between cognitive and mood disorders. At least not that I know of. The separation usually used is:

Axis I: Clinical disorders (depression, schizophrenia, drug addiction)
Axis II: Personality disorders and intellectual disabilities (BPD, down's syndrome)

Fourth, people with BPD are NOT rational, a lot of the time. That is the whole idea behind cognitive therapy. To help recognize and change the very irrational beliefs that the patients have. They don't, and usually can't recognize those beliefs without help from a therapist.

Last... your treatment plan would fail horribly. Read about DBT instead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy

That actually does work. In fact it's the only thing that has been proven to work. But it is very hard and stressful, and it takes a LONG time. Usually years. Especially if the patient is like me, resisting it every step of the way.
 
Last edited:
^ I really shouldn't be disagreeing with other models... The ideas are central to what a psychologist would try to do. I just typed them out as they made sense to me.

I think a doctor that throws benzos at the person will do way more harm than my little description of the path to success could do. Reread my steps but substitute in any anxiety disorder... Do you see that it is exactly what has to be done to overcome the problem? The only point of contention you have should only be concerning BPD falling in the category of stress-induced mood disorders.
 
marsmellow said:
Last... your treatment plan would fail horribly. Read about DBT instead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_behavior_therapy

That actually does work. In fact it's the only thing that has been proven to work. But it is very hard and stressful, and it takes a LONG time. Usually years. Especially if the patient is like me, resisting it every step of the way.
Click to expand...

Dude, read the steps that are described, that's what I'm describing too, just without defined exercises. None of what I said should be objectable, I really don't get it. It's just the way I phrased this same concept.

Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know it existed. Why did noone whip out this model earlier in the conversation?

marsmellow said:
Fourth, people with BPD are NOT rational, a lot of the time. That is the whole idea behind cognitive therapy. To help you recognize and change the very irrational beliefs that the patients have. They don't, and usually can't recognize those beliefs without help from a therapist.
Click to expand...

This is central to what I'm saying. It may appear irrational but I'm not convinced that it is actual irrationality in the sense of dementia or schizophrenia. These irrational disorders are what used to be considered "cognitive disorders" and what I was pitting BPD against.

Man, this thread is getting out of control.
 
Last edited:
Emotional self-regulation

Identifying and labeling emotions
Identifying obstacles to changing emotions
Reducing vulnerability to emotion mind
Increasing positive emotional events
Increasing mindfulness to current emotions
Taking opposite action
Applying distress tolerance techniques
Click to expand...

Is this not what I was advocating?
 
Pegasus said:
Dude, read the steps that are described, that's what I'm describing too, just without defined exercises. None of what I said should be objectable, I really don't get it. It's just the way I phrased this same concept.
Click to expand...
What's objectionable is not what you're saying. It's the assumption that people who are so deep into mental illness that they sincerely believe their entire family wouldn't care if they killed themselves... can take three words and come up with an entire treatment program for themselves, and do it without any help from someone who actually knows what they're doing.

I'm not arguing what you think I am. What I'm saying is that it's nearly impossible for someone with BPD to treat it without help from a professional. I'm not saying anything else other than that.
 
^I see what you're saying. I'm not trying to belittle the condition, sorry if it came off that way. I'm just trying to be optimistic as I think even a relatively small success rate should be pursued, and pessimism pretty much kills that chance.
 
Oh I agree with that. If someone can't get therapy, there are some books with DBT exercises in them, and if you could get into some group therapy for depression, that would probably help somewhat. But just thinking your way out of it in the way you described, that's not going to happen.
 
^ exactly, no matter where you are you can always find groups that might be beneficial, there are online support groups in forums and other formats, CBT and DBT workbooks... there are always resources available.
 
(issue sent in PM)

(criticism of modern psychology was here)
 
Last edited:
^ yeah but this isn't CE&P.

This is irrelevant in the discussion of whether someone who is Borderline requires treatment and can have normal relationships. I would certainly like to see less influence by pharmaceutical companies and other corporations that have a vested financial interest in potentially skewing diagnosis and treatment protocols but that doesn't negate anything we've said here.

The argument to discard THIS information because of what you presented is logically fallacious. Just because this evidence suggests they might skew some things due to potential bias, doesn't mean what they've published on an individual subject is incorrect. Further evidence of why this is irrelevant to THIS discussion - (to my knowledge) there are not ANY medications on the market indicated for Borderline Personality Disorder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top