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[MEGA]Community Growing advice, tips, tricks, & experiences Part 4

Damien said:
Everything I've read about species vs. Varieties says that there is an ongoing debate. To me they seem more like Varieties. Look at roses, they can look completely different but they are still just varieties of roses.
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I think you're confusing a strain with a species.

Yes there some debate currently going on in the area which is hardly surprising but the general consensus among scientists specialising in the area is now the original species of Cannabis Sativa L. is appropriately subdivided into three separate species that naturally occur in the wild - cannabis sativa, cannabis indica and cannabis ruderalis.

Basically they all stemmed from the same line, but evolution and diversity have caused them to develop and evolve independently around the globe. The definition in biology of different species is that they cannot crossbreed. Cannabis along with several other examples is actually an exception to this. So although you have an almost endless variety of different strains, they are classified according to each species type even if mainstream botany has only one classification of the cannabis species, Cannabis Sativa L. In my opinion they possibly need to update their understanding of what constitues a species in the first place as there are many other examples of different species being able to interbreed and produce fertile progeny. This would be a much better idea rather than trying to erroneously refer to cannabis indica/ruderalis/sativa simply as different varieties or strains.

The reason Cannabis Sativa L. is the only recognized species type by some Western biologists is largely due to legal reasons rather than because of plant classification systems/taxonomy. After Cannabis Indica was introduced into the West it was originally thought that it did not fall under the control of prohibtion laws. The courts refused to acknowledge the existence of the separate species of indica/sativa and therefore lumped all the cannabis species into just one category - 'Cannabis Sativa L' and unfortunately this fallacy has persisted to this day, even when it is so patently wrong. In fact many courts have been forced to dismiss cases against growers growing these plants because of this technicality. R.E. Schultes of Harvard and other respectable botanists such as William A. Emboden started testifying in the courts starting from 1972 to show that cannabis could be expressed as belonging to three unique and distinctive discrete species types rather than just one, Cannabis Sativa L.

In 1975 Ernest Small, of the Canadian Government Commission of Inquiry into the Non-Medical Use of Drugs attempted to solve this problem for the courts to try and stop people getting away with growing the potentially legal cannabis indica by trying to state the cannabis indica, ruderalis were simply just variations of cannabis sativa L. and not separate subspecies. Today the debate continues as is evident by your comment but it has been established amongst cannabis researchers that there are three distinct species of cannabis and I dare say has been the consensus for quite some time (according to our current understanding).

Because taxonomy doesn't have a clear and concise definition of what actually constitutes a species, it does cause some confusion some confusion. As said, one rule of what a species is, is that separate species shouldn't be able to break the confines of their so called 'species breeding barrier', meaning different species should not be able to breed with each other. Donkeys and horses being able to breed is an example of exception to this rule, however their offspring do not appear to ever be fertile. This led to scientists explaining that different species are characterised by populations that can breed with each other and produe fertile offspring. However offspring as the mule, or a liger (tiger x lion) are artificial creations and not a product of the natural world. Geographical isolation in nature usually prevents such breeding from ever happening and it is thought that this isolation eventually creates a complete species breeding barrier. This prevents separate species from being interfertile and what we are seeing with some species interbreeding is just a moment of their evolutionary development allowing for interfertility. However ooner or later this would become impossible as their isolation from one another is continued to be maintained. As we know, globalisation, cheap travel/shipping, mankind has started to interfere as anyone can bring cuttings or seeds halfway around the world and introduce this into the wild or local farmers growing native landrace strains. This process where a species does not take advantage of their interfertility in the wild because of their geographical isolation but does so when mankind interferes is termed a ring species, with another example being the salamander. Some species of salamander can in fact interbreed whilst other species are not able to.

So really the concept that there is only one cannabis species i.e. Cannabis Sativa L. is outdated science influenced by an archaic legal concept introduced to try and prosecute indica growers. So the articles you've been reading are most either written by someone not clued up on the issue, biased or just old and written before the mor recent research papers were written. I'm certain that if mankind were made extinct, Cannabis Indica/ruderalis/Sativa would eventually lose their ability to crossbreed with each other and would evolve separately to the point where they no longer looked anything like each other at all.

I hope that helps! To be honest I'm glad the issue was brought up as it can be the source of a lot of confusion amongst growers.
 
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Hey hey - So we are back in the swing of things. Putting together our new setup so we can get a decent harvest every month but have a few questions.

1.) We are going to veg outside of our tents. Going to have a shelf with 2 levels on it... each level will have 5, 5GL pots (a total of 10). What bulbs could I use during veg state? Would 2, 2bulb fluorescents on each level work? Or would they need to be 4bulb?

2.) We are going to grow bubba kush. Any ideas on how to get bigger buds this time? Out of 10 plants we only get 3/4 pound and our buds were very small. What nutes do you suggest.

Thanks for the help.
 
PsychicBuBBLe said:
Hey hey - So we are back in the swing of things. Putting together our new setup so we can get a decent harvest every month but have a few questions.

1.) We are going to veg outside of our tents. Going to have a shelf with 2 levels on it... each level will have 5, 5GL pots (a total of 10). What bulbs could I use during veg state? Would 2, 2bulb fluorescents on each level work? Or would they need to be 4bulb?

2.) We are going to grow bubba kush. Any ideas on how to get bigger buds this time? Out of 10 plants we only get 3/4 pound and our buds were very small. What nutes do you suggest.

Thanks for the help.
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If you're not going to veg inside the tent how are you going to have good airflow? An oscillating fan on it's own will not give the sort of airflow required and so you need proper inline fans to have enough air changes per hour. If you want decent yields I would stay away from CFLs (and preferrably T5s), choosing HPS lamps instead. You want 50 watts for every square foot of growing space. Up until about 60W/square foot you'll improve your yield with more light, as more light = bigger buds until saturation.

If you want bigger yields again, use bigger lights but also scrog those plants or use LST. Short of vertical training, SCROG training is just about the most effective for improving yields, but also an adequate airflow will flush out all oxygen and bring in fresh carbon dioxide so the plants are able to photosynthesize efficiently and pack on more buds. It's really these basics that give you youre yield, not some nutrient or silver bullet.

papasomni said:
every month?...wow. what kind of a tiered set up do you need to harvest every month?..
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I think he's thinking of using some type of perpetual grow. If you haven't heard of these, if you were to have four separate areas so that your plants spend no longer than a month in each, with two sections dedicated to vegging and two to flowering then theoretically you could bang out a harvest almost every month more or less, just like some sort of factory line in slow motion. Since he's just using clones this type of setup will be more easy to implement.
 
I don't have the room for MH and am forced to use fluorescents for now... which fluros would you recommend?

and yes... I have a window nearby which will be blowing fresh air in all day.
 
^ just an open window? That's really not sufficient, but it's your decision I guess. If at the end of it you're not yielding very much you'll at least know why. Have you got two flowering areas then?

You could always just get a 250W MH (doesn't need a big reflector) or even a 100W bulb.

If you're going to go for a fluorescent bulb a T5 is more efficient than a CFL. This would work, but you need to make sure you use an HID for the flowering period.
 
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I have 2 tents that I'll be using for flowering which has sufficient ventilation, lighting (1000w hps), etc... The vegging is really where I'm stuck. We will be vegging just outside the room (this is the only space we have available). I have a fan and a window for the veg period - If you say it won't suffice then what should I do?

Also - I'm looking to get 2 4ft 4bulb T5 (20,000 lumens) - 1 set per 5 plants (10 plants total) Shouldn't that be enough?
 
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Yes it'll work, but just not nearly as well as it could and it's not what I would do. If I were you I would get an old wardrobe (I picked one up the other day for very little) and convert it by drilling air inlet and outlet holes with hold saw drill bits and painting it flat white inside. Alternatively you can get small growing tents quite cheaply. You can run the ventilation in series so the intake of your big tent is the extraction of the small tent/wardrobe.

I would just go for a 250W HPS lamp as it's still much more efficient than a T5 light, even if it doesn't look as fancy. Those 250W lamps are cheap and easy to buy from pretty much any grow store so I'd definitely recommend them.
 
I think you're confusing a strain with a species.
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Welp, people have been arguing over it for hundreds of years so I don't think anything is going to be hashed out on the net between stoners. ;) Like I said, to me they seem akin to roses in they they can look and grow very differently yet they are all varieties of roses. But really, I'm not concerned with whatever silly labels humans feel the need to apply to nature, especially when it comes to splitting hairs.

Thank you for your considered reply though! :)
 
Oh I agree it doesn't really matter to your average grower, let alone your average smoker, however for people like me that want a better understanding of breeding and cannabis genetics, it is useful to know.

One thing that tells me they are different species (or were at least on the cusp of being different species) is the fact that pure sativas are most compatible with other pure sativas, or mostly sativas. The same is true vice versa with indicas. However as you said, it doesn't concern you since we don't have the same goals. To me things like this are more important to understand fully.

I'm not sure I agree that your analogy of roses really compares at all though, if I'm honest. It's only really been a recent thing that we've understood taxonomy fully, so the debate would not have been evolved as it is today for hundreds of years.

But anyway, we don't have to agree with everything :)
......

I can't wait to cross my Mr Nice 'Shit' and Mr Nice 'Black Widow' with the landrace Mazar-I-Sharif. It'll be interesting to see what the crosses are like after breeding true the hybrids.
 
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Fuck, I wanted to upload some images to Bluelight, but with the new board setup I would have no choice but to upload it to somewhere like imageshack which is potentially less secure.

Does anyone know of any file uploading websites such as photobucket/imageshack that they are pretty sure are safe to use? This is not just some paranoid anxiety of my own, but really is a concern many others hold, with some sites simply not allowing photobucket links due to this security concern.
 
G'day guys n gals been quite a while since i have posted in here :)

Anyways i finally got my indoor grow set up =D raised them in a mini hothouse thing in seed raising mix all from seed.All seem to be looking healthy besides one.Insted of stretching up and growing more nodes and the water leafs dieing off.This ones first lot of leaves have just pointed up and kept stretching upwards weird lol.dosnt really matter as i have another 10 healthy looking babys.........on the down side i think i have a insect problem alread :! there afids or midgies or something way to small to get on camera.Theres not to many of them but i still wanna kill the fuckas before more come in!!! :) any tips please everything i used was brand new so im assuming those little pricks came with the soil......I've got my plants on a 23-6-6 fert giving em aprox 200ml of water mixed with the right ratio of fert n gonna buy some 'monsta bud' when i get some coin....i used that last time n it worked wonders

heres a pic..... day 3 on the left day 7 on the right

http://imageshack.us/g/31/day3bf.jpg/

Also how do i increase the thickness of the stem?(this is my first time indoor by the way) i have tried bending one down like i did when growing out doors to see what happens.i have a fan in the roof for ventulation.Should i get a desk fan to stick in in there or will they be right with the just the roof vent?

Oh yea n i got em under a 400wt halide lamp i think hhahaha and for flower i have a 400wt HPS.....are they safe to run off the same ballest?
 
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junkie skumbag said:
G'day guys n gals been quite a while since i have posted in here :)

Anyways i finally got my indoor grow set up =D raised them in a mini hothouse thing in seed raising mix all from seed.All seem to be looking healthy besides one.Insted of stretching up and growing more nodes and the water leafs dieing off.This ones first lot of leaves have just pointed up and kept stretching upwards weird lol.dosnt really matter as i have another 10 healthy looking babys.........on the down side i think i have a insect problem alread :! there afids or midgies or something way to small to get on camera.Theres not to many of them but i still wanna kill the fuckas before more come in!!! :) any tips please everything i used was brand new so im assuming those little pricks came with the soil......I've got my plants on a 23-6-6 fert giving em aprox 200ml of water mixed with the right ratio of fert n gonna buy some 'monsta bud' when i get some coin....i used that last time n it worked wonders

heres a pic..... day 3 on the left day 7 on the right

http://imageshack.us/g/31/day3bf.jpg/

Also how do i increase the thickness of the stem?(this is my first time indoor by the way) i have tried bending one down like i did when growing out doors to see what happens.i have a fan in the roof for ventulation.Should i get a desk fan to stick in in there or will they be right with the just the roof vent?

Oh yea n i got em under a 400wt halide lamp i think hhahaha and for flower i have a 400wt HPS.....are they safe to run off the same ballest?
Click to expand...

23-6-6?! Why use a fertilizer with such rediculously massive N levels? Was that a typo?

It doesn't sound like you have proper ventilation. Since environment is key and determines whether you have a poor/mediocre grow or an excellent one, I would install proper intake and extraction fans. The problem is that a lot of growers, particularly inexeperienced ones are aware of the fact that people use extraction and intake fans but see it as an optional extra that's just an added expense and probably not worth it. However, this couldn't be further from the truth! In order for your plants to make food from the light they receive, they need to be able to 'breathe', by taking in gases through the stomata, tiny holes that can open and close on the underside the the leaves, so that they can photosynthesise and produce natural sugars. The main gas they take in is carbon dioxide, and in very close proximity to the leaves themselves the CO2 levels can fall very quickly indeed in an indoor environment. Of course when you see plants outside you're not automatically aware of this process as it's invisible to the naked eye, however I assure you it is essential for the health and life of the plant. So the cheapest and most effective way to deal with this, short of actually putting the plants in a completely sealed off room and literally injecting CO2 from gas bottles, is to use fans to expel the low CO2/high O2 hot air at the top of the grow room through an extraction fan that ideally leads to the outdoors through a window (I have a window box I build to surround my window with a blind inbetween so that it isn't suspicious looking) and to also intake room temperature air from inside your house, which hasn't been used by the plants and should be relatively high in CO2. There are specific fan sizes for each given grow space area and, more importantly, the power of the bulb used for that grow. The more obvious benefit of having good ventilation is that the hot air that collects at the top of the grow area (hot air rises, remember) is removed from the grow area and it becomes a lot easier to maintain optimum temperatures of around 23-28C and as we know, the environment, including the temperature, is key to a successful grow. Unfortunately a small desk fan will only blow the air around the grow space rather than powerfully sucking large amounts from the top out of the grow space and expelling it outside, meaning it does not really have as much of an effect on temperature as you might need when using powerful HID lights.

I can guarantee you improving the ventilation in this way will have far more of a positive effect on the health and yield of the plants than any fancy grow accelerator or whatever it is they are calling it. Really the only thing that is needed is the nutrients and water and unless everything is PERFECTLY dialed in, its a waste of time, effort and money. So I would recommend spending the money on a fund to save up to buy a proper extraction and intake ventilation setup!

If the ballast says it's only for metal halide or only for hps then only use it for the type it was designed for. Otherwise, if it's a switchable type then go for it.

To increase the thickness just put a small circulating fan in there (notice I said circulating, not oscillating, meaning it doesn't pan back and forth and just sits there in a stationary position when it works). The gentle breeze will thicken the stem to an extent. Apart from this you can't really do anything in particular apart from ensuring they stay healthy. Supercropping will have an effect, but this is limited to a localised area. A better thing to concentrate rather than thick stems would be short internodal spacing (the distances between nodes), since this leads to more bushy, stocky and bigger yielding plants. This can be achieved by ensuring there are at least 50Watts per square foot of growing space.
 
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5x5 hydro-hut silver edition used
600 watt quantum ballast 120/240 adjustable brand new
600 watt digilux hps brand new
600 watt maxlume metal halide brand new
6'' air cooled blockbuster hood used
8 '' 745 cfm inline fan brand new
*NO PRICES*
thoughts on this kit? most amount of plants that could be grown with this set up?

sorry for such rudimentary/vague questions. trying to decide the best was to go about growing my own medicine.
 
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Artificial Emotion said:
23-6-6?! Why use a fertilizer with such rediculously massive N levels? Was that a typo?

It doesn't sound like you have proper ventilation. Since environment is key and determines whether you have a poor/mediocre grow or an excellent one, I would install proper intake and extraction fans. The problem is that a lot of growers, particularly inexeperienced ones are aware of the fact that people use extraction and intake fans but see it as an optional extra that's just an added expense and probably not worth it. However, this couldn't be further from the truth! In order for your plants to make food from the light they receive, they need to be able to 'breathe', by taking in gases through the stomata, tiny holes that can open and close on the underside the the leaves, so that they can photosynthesise and produce natural sugars. The main gas they take in is carbon dioxide, and in very close proximity to the leaves themselves the CO2 levels can fall very quickly indeed in an indoor environment. Of course when you see plants outside you're not automatically aware of this process as it's invisible to the naked eye, however I assure you it is essential for the health and life of the plant. So the cheapest and most effective way to deal with this, short of actually putting the plants in a completely sealed off room and literally injecting CO2 from gas bottles, is to use fans to expel the low CO2/high O2 hot air at the top of the grow room through an extraction fan that ideally leads to the outdoors through a window (I have a window box I build to surround my window with a blind inbetween so that it isn't suspicious looking) and to also intake room temperature air from inside your house, which hasn't been used by the plants and should be relatively high in CO2. There are specific fan sizes for each given grow space area and, more importantly, the power of the bulb used for that grow. The more obvious benefit of having good ventilation is that the hot air that collects at the top of the grow area (hot air rises, remember) is removed from the grow area and it becomes a lot easier to maintain optimum temperatures of around 23-28C and as we know, the environment, including the temperature, is key to a successful grow. Unfortunately a small desk fan will only blow the air around the grow space rather than powerfully sucking large amounts from the top out of the grow space and expelling it outside, meaning it does not really have as much of an effect on temperature as you might need when using powerful HID lights.

I can guarantee you improving the ventilation in this way will have far more of a positive effect on the health and yield of the plants than any fancy grow accelerator or whatever it is they are calling it. Really the only thing that is needed is the nutrients and water and unless everything is PERFECTLY dialed in, its a waste of time, effort and money. So I would recommend spending the money on a fund to save up to buy a proper extraction and intake ventilation setup!

If the ballast says it's only for metal halide or only for hps then only use it for the type it was designed for. Otherwise, if it's a switchable type then go for it.

To increase the thickness just put a small circulating fan in there (notice I said circulating, not oscillating, meaning it doesn't pan back and forth and just sits there in a stationary position when it works). The gentle breeze will thicken the stem to an extent. Apart from this you can't really do anything in particular apart from ensuring they stay healthy. Supercropping will have an effect, but this is limited to a localised area. A better thing to concentrate rather than thick stems would be short internodal spacing (the distances between nodes), since this leads to more bushy, stocky and bigger yielding plants. This can be achieved by ensuring there are at least 50Watts per square foot of growing space.
Click to expand...

hahaha yes that was a spelling mistake i ment 14-6-6.........i've got them growing in a bathroom with the airvent on all the time n somtimes open the window when its not too cold out side.....when i get in the growing area i can feel a mild breeze and can see my plants moving to it.is that not enough?tax return is comming so i will buy lots of goodies for this grow.i will be taking out the smaller ones tonight just not sure what to do with them :\ cheers for the info dude =D
 
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