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Enlightened Questions
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Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
...I was talking to an Indian guru from his ashram over a set of internet correspondences, and when we were in IM session at one occasion, I let him know that I had promised someone I'd feed their dogs while they were away and had to run off and do that.
When I came back he made some parable about how feeding dogs was like a stumbling block to enlightenment (for instance: in the search for wisdom one can such & such, or spend their time feeding dogs; something like that), so it takes all kinds (in India, traditionally, dogs are looked at as 'unclean' and spiritually benighted creatures, and I think my absence from our discourse for such a "trifling matter" in his mind was offensive. A difference of cultures and priorities)
When I came back he made some parable about how feeding dogs was like a stumbling block to enlightenment (for instance: in the search for wisdom one can such & such, or spend their time feeding dogs; something like that), so it takes all kinds (in India, traditionally, dogs are looked at as 'unclean' and spiritually benighted creatures, and I think my absence from our discourse for such a "trifling matter" in his mind was offensive. A difference of cultures and priorities)
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High Yogi
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2009
- Messages
- 196
There are no such questions for such a being. When you have found the enlightened guru, you have found everything. There no longer needs to be any questions or answers. You simply let go and allow his grace to fall upon you. The more you let go, accept and allow his grace to fullfill you, the more you wont have any questions. This is because the questions arise from an unenlightened mind, but if we allow his candle flame to light our candle, we will have attained and the questions will no longer arise. If we continue to have questions, we have missed the point and have no attained his grace and blessings to the highest fulfillment.
Enlightenment sees no others.
Others are oneself (as awareness, or consciousness).
Such a failure to see "other-ness" ends automatic emotional reacting -- you know, when someone says "f** you" and you feel a surge of rage, that kind of reaction.
That ends.
One operates from a base of peace, contentment, fulfillment, and seeing the thoughts of others as one's own thoughts, as they are encountered.
For example, the reader is thinking these thoughts right now, while reading this message. They originated with the writer, but they are always the reader's own thoughts when they're actually encountered.
It's kind of a total taking of responsibility, and at the same time letting go of all caring about what happens.
Because what happens, is changing all the time.
My own response (unenlightened?) is: "The way I act toward others has been ceaselessly changing throughout my entire life".
Peace...
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CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
I hope he knew what he was doing if he gave the impression that he was offended that you fed some dogs. Certainly helping sustain the life of a healthy and loved creature is nothing but a compassionate action, yet the acting offended could be his way of telling you that if he was able to get upset like that, then he clearly wasn't at the highest level of mastery, and therefore fallible, and therefore you shouldn't take everything he says so seriously.
If that was his hidden intention then he was much wiser than he would otherwise seem.
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
After talking to someone enlightened, I would ask you: why do you feel the need to look into the mirror to talk to yourself?
Is vanity an ingredient of self-maintained enlightenment?
Time to get drunk though...maybe I'll have more to add later....
swilow
Bluelight Crew
I'll light your candle baby...
Seriously though: there is no "point" in meeting an enlightened guru- its just a possible situation with no rules or law or dogma to define it. There is no failure in not becoming enlightened either.
I would ask this enlightened being what music he/she/It liked.
CoffeeDrinker
Bluelighter
^YEAAH...
that's the greatest question
lol
But what if his tastes were drastically different than yours? Would you force yourself to like that stuff?
that's the greatest question
lol
But what if his tastes were drastically different than yours? Would you force yourself to like that stuff?
Charleston_Car
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2011
- Messages
- 188
I don't really know what I would ask, I might not ask anything, I'd show an enlightened person the picture of the Hubble Ultra-Deep Field, I think they'd like that.
High Yogi
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2009
- Messages
- 196
This is in perfect relation to what you guys are discussing and I would like to share because I believe reading it will give you all a sort of pleasure and fulfillment.
I was just recently reading Osho's commentaries on Tilopa's song of Mahamudra. Now what Maha-Mudra means is the great(maha) orgasm (mudra) or "merging" with existence, or the universe. So mahamudra is the great orgasm with the universe, when you and the universe become one. This is a phenomenal read and i highly suggest you try and get a copy of it. It had helped me to understand what has been going on with me and my life and i believe it may do the same for you. Tilopa is an enlightened Tantric Guru. He isnt your ordinary buddha- he has a special quality to him and he has attained. He has reached the highest peak of experience and he finds the disciple of disciples, because he cant just share his grace with anybody, he must find the perfect disciple in which to share such great of an experience with. So he finds Naropa.
In the beggining of the song of mahamudra, Tilopoa says: "Mahamudra is beyond all words and symbols, but for you, Naropa, Earnest and loyal, must this be said:
The void needs no reliance, Mahamudra rests on nought. Without making an effort, but remaining loose and natural, one can break the yoke--thus attaining liberation.
If one sees nought while staring into space; if with the mind one then observes the mind, one destroys distinctions and reaches buddhahood.
The clouds that wander through the sky have no roots, no home; nor do the distinctive thoughts floating through the mind, once the self-mind is seen, descrimination stops.
In space shapes and colors form, but neither by black nor white is space tinged, from the self-mind all things emerge, the mind by virtues and by vices is not stained.
The darkness of ages cannot shroud the glowing sun; the long kalpas of samsara never can hide-the minds brilliant light.
Though words are spoken to explain the void- the void as such can never be expressed. Though we say "the mind is a bright light," it is beyond all words and symbols. Although the mind is void in essence, all things it embraces and contains.
Do naught with the body, but relax; shut firm the mouth and silent remain; empty your mind and think of naught. Like a hollow bamboo, rest with ease at your body. Giving not, nor taking, put your mind at rest. Mahamudra is like a mind that clings to naught.
Thus practicing, in time you will reach buddhahood.
The practice of manta and paramita, instruction in the sutras and precepts, and the teachings of schools and scriptures, will not bring realization of the innate truth, for if the mind when filled with some desire should seek a goal, it only hides the light.
He who keeps the tantric precepts, yet descriminates, betrays the spirit of samaya, cease all activity abandon all desire, let thoughts rise and fall as they will, like ocean waves. He who never harms the non-abiding, nor the principle of non-distinction, upholds the tantric precepts.
He who abandons craving and clings not to this and that, perceives the real meaning given in the scriptures.
In mahamudra, all of ones sins are burnes; in mahamudra one is released from the prison of this world. This is the dharmas supreme torch. Those who disbelieve it are fools, who ever wallow in misery and sorrow.
TO STRIVE FOR LIBERATION, ONE SHOULD RELY ON A GURU. WHEN YOUR MIND RECEIVES HIS BLESSINGS EMANCIPATION IS AT HAND.
Alas, all things in this world are meaningless. They are but sorrows seeds. Small teachings lead to acts-one should only follow teachings that are great.
To transcend duality is the kingly view. To conquer distractions is the royal practice. The path of no-practice is the way of all buddhas. He who treads that path reaches buddhahood.
Transient is the world, like phantoms and dreams, substance it has none. Renounce it and forsake your kin, cut the strings of lust and hatred and meditate in woods and mountains.
If without effort you remain loosely in the natural state, soon mahamudra you will win and attain the non attainment.
Cut the root of a tree and the leaves will wither; cut the root of your mind and samsara falls. The light of any lamp dispels in a moment the darkness of long kalpas(time); the strone light of the mind in but a flash will burn the veil of ignorance.
Whoever clings to the mind sees not the truth of whats beyond the mind. Whoever strives to practice dharma finds not the truth of beyond practice. To know what is beyond both mind and practice, one should cut cleanly through the root of mind and stare naked. One should break away from all distinctions and remain at ease.
One should not give or take, but remain natural for mahamudra is beyond all acceptance and rejection. Since alaya is not yet born, no one can obstruct or soil it; staying in the unborn realm all appearance will dissolve into Dharmata, andd self-will and pride will vanish into naught.
The supreme understanding trancends all this and that. The supreme action embraces great resourcefulness without attachment. The supreme accomplishment is to realize immanence without hope. At first a yogi feels his mind is tumbling like a waterfall, in mid-course, like the Ganges, it flows on slow and gentle' in the end it is a great vast ocean where the lights of son and mother merge in one"
So you can see from this, that there is basically nothing to talk about once you have found the person who has attained the supreme. Enlightenment is not a truth to be reached through intellect or thought, but through realization and direct experience. If you are receptive to the guru, His grace will flow into you and you can experience something beyond all words and symbols, it is a presence to be felt. It is attained through feeling one with the guru, therefore, there must be a sort of love for him. This is not your ordinary love, but a divine love. A love where one sees in his guru god himself, a sort of god present within this man. If ever you find such a man, this is your guru. Become open and receptive, be very loving and gentle, almost child-like and you will attain the non attainable. To attain the non attainable, one has to give up all aspirations which inherently bring him no where near his Purusha or supreme self, by doing absolutely nothing at all. Neither giving, nor receiving. If you are not giving anything or receiving anything, than for once you are just being. If you are just being and not caught in giving or receiving, than it is like the waves in the ocean of your mind has stopped, and for once you have a clear pool of water in which you can see your reflection, your true reflection. This is the merging with existence itself, this is the great orgasm with the universe, this is mahamudra. If one has found a guru than enlightenment is at hand and one needs not ask anything, but instead allow the gurus grace to wash over him and let him experience the realization.
I was just recently reading Osho's commentaries on Tilopa's song of Mahamudra. Now what Maha-Mudra means is the great(maha) orgasm (mudra) or "merging" with existence, or the universe. So mahamudra is the great orgasm with the universe, when you and the universe become one. This is a phenomenal read and i highly suggest you try and get a copy of it. It had helped me to understand what has been going on with me and my life and i believe it may do the same for you. Tilopa is an enlightened Tantric Guru. He isnt your ordinary buddha- he has a special quality to him and he has attained. He has reached the highest peak of experience and he finds the disciple of disciples, because he cant just share his grace with anybody, he must find the perfect disciple in which to share such great of an experience with. So he finds Naropa.
In the beggining of the song of mahamudra, Tilopoa says: "Mahamudra is beyond all words and symbols, but for you, Naropa, Earnest and loyal, must this be said:
The void needs no reliance, Mahamudra rests on nought. Without making an effort, but remaining loose and natural, one can break the yoke--thus attaining liberation.
If one sees nought while staring into space; if with the mind one then observes the mind, one destroys distinctions and reaches buddhahood.
The clouds that wander through the sky have no roots, no home; nor do the distinctive thoughts floating through the mind, once the self-mind is seen, descrimination stops.
In space shapes and colors form, but neither by black nor white is space tinged, from the self-mind all things emerge, the mind by virtues and by vices is not stained.
The darkness of ages cannot shroud the glowing sun; the long kalpas of samsara never can hide-the minds brilliant light.
Though words are spoken to explain the void- the void as such can never be expressed. Though we say "the mind is a bright light," it is beyond all words and symbols. Although the mind is void in essence, all things it embraces and contains.
Do naught with the body, but relax; shut firm the mouth and silent remain; empty your mind and think of naught. Like a hollow bamboo, rest with ease at your body. Giving not, nor taking, put your mind at rest. Mahamudra is like a mind that clings to naught.
Thus practicing, in time you will reach buddhahood.
The practice of manta and paramita, instruction in the sutras and precepts, and the teachings of schools and scriptures, will not bring realization of the innate truth, for if the mind when filled with some desire should seek a goal, it only hides the light.
He who keeps the tantric precepts, yet descriminates, betrays the spirit of samaya, cease all activity abandon all desire, let thoughts rise and fall as they will, like ocean waves. He who never harms the non-abiding, nor the principle of non-distinction, upholds the tantric precepts.
He who abandons craving and clings not to this and that, perceives the real meaning given in the scriptures.
In mahamudra, all of ones sins are burnes; in mahamudra one is released from the prison of this world. This is the dharmas supreme torch. Those who disbelieve it are fools, who ever wallow in misery and sorrow.
TO STRIVE FOR LIBERATION, ONE SHOULD RELY ON A GURU. WHEN YOUR MIND RECEIVES HIS BLESSINGS EMANCIPATION IS AT HAND.
Alas, all things in this world are meaningless. They are but sorrows seeds. Small teachings lead to acts-one should only follow teachings that are great.
To transcend duality is the kingly view. To conquer distractions is the royal practice. The path of no-practice is the way of all buddhas. He who treads that path reaches buddhahood.
Transient is the world, like phantoms and dreams, substance it has none. Renounce it and forsake your kin, cut the strings of lust and hatred and meditate in woods and mountains.
If without effort you remain loosely in the natural state, soon mahamudra you will win and attain the non attainment.
Cut the root of a tree and the leaves will wither; cut the root of your mind and samsara falls. The light of any lamp dispels in a moment the darkness of long kalpas(time); the strone light of the mind in but a flash will burn the veil of ignorance.
Whoever clings to the mind sees not the truth of whats beyond the mind. Whoever strives to practice dharma finds not the truth of beyond practice. To know what is beyond both mind and practice, one should cut cleanly through the root of mind and stare naked. One should break away from all distinctions and remain at ease.
One should not give or take, but remain natural for mahamudra is beyond all acceptance and rejection. Since alaya is not yet born, no one can obstruct or soil it; staying in the unborn realm all appearance will dissolve into Dharmata, andd self-will and pride will vanish into naught.
The supreme understanding trancends all this and that. The supreme action embraces great resourcefulness without attachment. The supreme accomplishment is to realize immanence without hope. At first a yogi feels his mind is tumbling like a waterfall, in mid-course, like the Ganges, it flows on slow and gentle' in the end it is a great vast ocean where the lights of son and mother merge in one"
So you can see from this, that there is basically nothing to talk about once you have found the person who has attained the supreme. Enlightenment is not a truth to be reached through intellect or thought, but through realization and direct experience. If you are receptive to the guru, His grace will flow into you and you can experience something beyond all words and symbols, it is a presence to be felt. It is attained through feeling one with the guru, therefore, there must be a sort of love for him. This is not your ordinary love, but a divine love. A love where one sees in his guru god himself, a sort of god present within this man. If ever you find such a man, this is your guru. Become open and receptive, be very loving and gentle, almost child-like and you will attain the non attainable. To attain the non attainable, one has to give up all aspirations which inherently bring him no where near his Purusha or supreme self, by doing absolutely nothing at all. Neither giving, nor receiving. If you are not giving anything or receiving anything, than for once you are just being. If you are just being and not caught in giving or receiving, than it is like the waves in the ocean of your mind has stopped, and for once you have a clear pool of water in which you can see your reflection, your true reflection. This is the merging with existence itself, this is the great orgasm with the universe, this is mahamudra. If one has found a guru than enlightenment is at hand and one needs not ask anything, but instead allow the gurus grace to wash over him and let him experience the realization.
cosmic._.ape
Bluelighter
"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us a 'universe' a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." Albert Einstein
Nagelfar
Bluelight Crew
I've always thought of this kind of view as an utter marginalization of any individual. To prostrate yourself before the whole as its part. Which is something many traditional religions with a view of 'enlightenment' do (take the position of making the least amount of impact possible, at least of how you perceive 'impact'). It seems rather mechanistic and temporally mundane to me.
MyDoorsAreOpen
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2003
- Messages
- 8,549
If I were to meet someone I'm sure had reached enlightenment, I'd ask them about their friendships and relationships from long before they began their spiritual path -- are they still friends with any of these people, and how have their friendships and interactions changed?
I think that person would say that friends became dearly beloved, family became dearly beloved, strangers became dearly beloved and even "enemies" became dearly beloved. He would help his friends with their problems like it was his own problems. He would try to teach love and peace to help them helping themselves 
BTW: When we talk about music. I think those kind of people would say that real music is music with only instruments. A sitar can tell you a story more emotionally than Alicia Keys
You just need to listen carefully. Making your own music is a way of talking with your heart.
BTW: When we talk about music. I think those kind of people would say that real music is music with only instruments. A sitar can tell you a story more emotionally than Alicia Keys
You just need to listen carefully. Making your own music is a way of talking with your heart.
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B9
Bluelight Crew
Hey would you tell me your story please ?