Could really use advice-- past ~bad~ trips

[ambrielangel]

Hello, all.

I've been paging through the past responses on candy- and hippy-flipping, but I was hoping I could get some responses directly to SWIM's situation (what is SWIM??).

My situation:
It's wrong to call it "bad" tripping, but SWIM has had two intensely negative, introspective, ego-death involving, reality isn't real, I'm God and I've lost the Paradise this world is, worst experiences of SWIM's life... trips. Those were the only two times SWIM has done psychedelics. The first trip (the worst) was on 7 pills of shrooms and the second on a double-dipped strip of mescaline. SWIM was not in a good environment during either trip: during the first SWIM was with strangers, one of whom kept hitting on SWIM, another who didn't like SWIM, and her good (also tripping) friend who was hiding under the table. During the second, SWIM was breaking up with someone and was slammed up against a car and very forcefully kissed (SWIM was incomprehensibly idiotic for taking it in such a situation after the first experience; please don't comment on this).

Both times were just terrible-- life-changing and extremely important. SWIM experiences life very differently now. SWIM had an existential crisis after the first trip and found some limited solace in Buddhism. SWIM now never gets bored because SWIM is just happy not to be experiencing God's mind anymore; SWIM still has anxiety episodes over reality not seeming real anymore, after over a year from second time consumption. SWIM was changed a lot. To quote George Carlin: "Hallucinogens are value-changing drugs, like it or not."

Anyway, SWIM has changed a lot because of other things too in this year. SWIM has far fewer problems with social anxiety (which SWIM attributes largely to molly). As noted, SWIM still gets really scared sometimes that reality is going to fade away (like a dream) and SWIM will be God again and everyone she loves will never have existed and never can exist.


So SWIM is going to a gathering this weekend where there may (LOL) be use of mdma (SWIM is not sure if molly or ecstasy), psychedelics (SWIM is not sure if acid, mescaline, or shrooms), and weed. Molly = ohmygodpeacefinallyIloveeveryonefinallyyesyesyes. But... SWIM is considering taking a psychedelic again-- candy- or hippy-flipping

Now hear SWIM out.

SWIM is a very confused, analytical person, always trying to make sense of incomprehensible things (not much luck, even more confused) who went into the first two trips thinking to just experience the drugs (i.e., with no plan for what she wanted from the experiences). SWIM also wants to break free from the analytical, processing block-- which she's been working on ever since the first "bad" trip, with meditation. SWIM wants to go into this trip with the intention of being ecstatic and seeing pretty colors and creating a domain (Gaiman, Sandman reference; i.e., visually SWIM's own paradise, which SWIM's friends have done). SWIM wonders if intention can really control a trip to this degree. SWIM is talking serious intention here. Like, humming and rocking to stop SWIM-self from thinking too hard if necessary. This weekend is occurring at a friend's house, where there's a lake and apparently a lot of nature. Many other trippers, some of whom SWIM knows and likes, including one good friend.

SWIM plans to do the psychedelic with some form of mdma (likely molly). Should SWIM take the mdma before or after the psychedelic? When? Why?

SWIM would appreciate hearing from anyone with advice to give, and particularly from people who also bad-tripped when first using the drug who have now overcome the bad.

... SWIM would also like to know if a good trip is really worth trying these again. Are they important?


Thank you so much for reading and offering me whatever assistance here you can.

 

[cryptix420]

We don't use SWIM here. Someone Who Isn't Me. It's stupid and won't protect you from anything.

Trips are all about set and setting. Set is why you are taking the drug, and setting is the environment you're taking it in. It can be hard to trip with friends sometimes, let alone people who you don't get along with.

 

[ambrielangel]

We don't use SWIM here. Someone Who Isn't Me. It's stupid and won't protect you from anything.

Noted. Thanks for the heads up.

Edit: ... truthfully though it was kind of fun writing in the third person. It feels different than writing using a personal pronoun.

 

[bartlebooth]

I think you have a lot of good intentions and it sounds like you have made positive improvements in your life out of some very challenging trips. There are many people here with a much richer history of tripping than myself that will likely be able to offer you some practical advice.

One thing that stood out to me as I read through your post that I wanted to respond to is the element of control, particularly in the following passage:

SWIM is a very confused, analytical person, always trying to make sense of incomprehensible things (not much luck, even more confused) who went into the first two trips thinking to just experience the drugs (i.e., with no plan for what she wanted from the experiences). SWIM also wants to break free from the analytical, processing block-- which she's been working on ever since the first "bad" trip, with meditation. SWIM wants to go into this trip with the intention of being ecstatic and seeing pretty colors and creating a domain (Gaiman, Sandman reference; i.e., visually SWIM's own paradise, which SWIM's friends have done). SWIM wonders if intention can really control a trip to this degree.

I may just be misunderstanding your comments here, but there is a difference between wanting to control one's trip and wanting to guide it. Control is something that has not helped me in my tripping experience. In fact, when I attempt to control my trips, I tend to experience just the opposite - a fantastically chaotic display of how out-of-control I really am and that most of what I consider "control" is an illusion.

I honestly believe that your experience will be better if you are willing to accept whatever form your trip takes. You can attempt to guide your trip through techniques, some of which some more seasoned people here may be able to offer advice on, and you will likely learn through your own experience. If you go into a trip with certain expectations, and you are not prepared to accept the unexpected, you will very likely be disappointed.

 

[Gerald92]

Hello, all.

I've been paging through the past responses on candy- and hippy-flipping, but I was hoping I could get some responses directly to SWIM's situation (what is SWIM??).

My situation:
It's wrong to call it "bad" tripping, but SWIM has had two intensely negative, introspective, ego-death involving, reality isn't real, I'm God and I've lost the Paradise this world is, worst experiences of SWIM's life... trips. Those were the only two times SWIM has done psychedelics. The first trip (the worst) was on 7 pills of shrooms and the second on a double-dipped strip of mescaline. SWIM was not in a good environment during either trip: during the first SWIM was with strangers, one of whom kept hitting on SWIM, another who didn't like SWIM, and her good (also tripping) friend who was hiding under the table. During the second, SWIM was breaking up with someone and was slammed up against a car and very forcefully kissed (SWIM was incomprehensibly idiotic for taking it in such a situation after the first experience; please don't comment on this).

Both times were just terrible-- life-changing and extremely important. SWIM experiences life very differently now. SWIM had an existential crisis after the first trip and found some limited solace in Buddhism. SWIM now never gets bored because SWIM is just happy not to be experiencing God's mind anymore; SWIM still has anxiety episodes over reality not seeming real anymore, after over a year from second time consumption. SWIM was changed a lot. To quote George Carlin: "Hallucinogens are value-changing drugs, like it or not."

Anyway, SWIM has changed a lot because of other things too in this year. SWIM has far fewer problems with social anxiety (which SWIM attributes largely to molly). As noted, SWIM still gets really scared sometimes that reality is going to fade away (like a dream) and SWIM will be God again and everyone she loves will never have existed and never can exist.


So SWIM is going to a gathering this weekend where there may (LOL) be use of mdma (SWIM is not sure if molly or ecstasy), psychedelics (SWIM is not sure if acid, mescaline, or shrooms), and weed. Molly = ohmygodpeacefinallyIloveeveryonefinallyyesyesyes. But... SWIM is considering taking a psychedelic again-- candy- or hippy-flipping

Now hear SWIM out.

SWIM is a very confused, analytical person, always trying to make sense of incomprehensible things (not much luck, even more confused) who went into the first two trips thinking to just experience the drugs (i.e., with no plan for what she wanted from the experiences). SWIM also wants to break free from the analytical, processing block-- which she's been working on ever since the first "bad" trip, with meditation. SWIM wants to go into this trip with the intention of being ecstatic and seeing pretty colors and creating a domain (Gaiman, Sandman reference; i.e., visually SWIM's own paradise, which SWIM's friends have done). SWIM wonders if intention can really control a trip to this degree. SWIM is talking serious intention here. Like, humming and rocking to stop SWIM-self from thinking too hard if necessary. This weekend is occurring at a friend's house, where there's a lake and apparently a lot of nature. Many other trippers, some of whom SWIM knows and likes, including one good friend.

SWIM plans to do the psychedelic with some form of mdma (likely molly). Should SWIM take the mdma before or after the psychedelic? When? Why?

SWIM would appreciate hearing from anyone with advice to give, and particularly from people who also bad-tripped when first using the drug who have now overcome the bad.

... SWIM would also like to know if a good trip is really worth trying these again. Are they important?


Thank you so much for reading and offering me whatever assistance here you can.

...shroom pills..."double dipped" mescaline strips...am i missing something here

 

[perKeceT]

...shroom pills..."double dipped" mescaline strips...am i missing something here

yes, although i cant help the OP with their bad tripping, what you were told was 'double dipped mescaline' was most definitely either LSD(99ish% chance) or a DOx or other research chemical type psychedelic. now if youve only tripped once before and took a strip of acid (the double dipped portion being a meaningless marketing ploy) you could bet on having a life changing experience as thats quite a bit of LSD. so perhaps your problem is taking too much?

 

[ambrielangel]

yes, although i cant help the OP with their bad tripping, what you were told was 'double dipped mescaline' was most definitely either LSD(99ish% chance) or a DOx or other research chemical type psychedelic. now if youve only tripped once before and took a strip of acid (the double dipped portion being a meaningless marketing ploy) you could bet on having a life changing experience as thats quite a bit of LSD. so perhaps your problem is taking too much?

Interesting post: so things are rarely actually double-dipped? Is that because the paper's already saturated and won't suck up more beyond a certain point or what?

I believe you're right about taking too much. The first time I think that was a huge part of the negative experience; I didn't know what to expect, then immediately became overwhelmed with some deep thoughts. If I do take the psychedelic this weekend, I plan on taking very little.

 

[ambrielangel]

One thing that stood out to me as I read through your post that I wanted to respond to is the element of control, particularly in the following passage:


I may just be misunderstanding your comments here, but there is a difference between wanting to control one's trip and wanting to guide it. Control is something that has not helped me in my tripping experience. In fact, when I attempt to control my trips, I tend to experience just the opposite - a fantastically chaotic display of how out-of-control I really am and that most of what I consider "control" is an illusion.

I honestly believe that your experience will be better if you are willing to accept whatever form your trip takes. You can attempt to guide your trip through techniques, some of which some more seasoned people here may be able to offer advice on, and you will likely learn through your own experience. If you go into a trip with certain expectations, and you are not prepared to accept the unexpected, you will very likely be disappointed.

My good friend had a problem similar to mine and he offered the same advice you just did: c'est la vie; let go. Any tips on accepting the moment and chilling out (e.g., getting okay with not being in control)? When things get overwhelming and I need to come out of a place consumed by existential anxiety I try and do a mental push where I come up for air in the moment and then try and practice mindfulness. What works for you? I'm all about having alternatives.

 

[cryptix420]

The only way you can fully let go is if you are 100% comfortable in the environment you're tripping in.

 

[bartlebooth]

Any tips on accepting the moment and chilling out (e.g., getting okay with not being in control)? When things get overwhelming and I need to come out of a place consumed by existential anxiety I try and do a mental push where I come up for air in the moment and then try and practice mindfulness. What works for you? I'm all about having alternatives.

I can only give a very personal response to this, which might not have any use for you. If it helps, though, I am happy to tell you what works for me.

Standard set & setting considerations should be made, of course. Personally I need to prepare myself by confronting any of my anxieties before tripping, particularly anxieties that are related to events occurring in the near future. I'm a pretty anxious person by nature. I imagine that many people are able to mentally prepare themselves with less conscious effort than I require. The goal for me is to ensure that my mind will be devoted to the trip itself and not derailed by matters I am better suited to deal with later.

During the trip is tricky. I am still visited by strong and sudden bouts of fear and my technique for dealing with this is ever evolving. Working through it by experience has helped me develop my technique more than anything else.

If my anxiety is related to body load, I practice deep breathing and stretching. Simple but effective. I don't concentrate on whether or not the body load decreases, instead I reassure myself that I am doing what is possible to manage my situation and anything else is out of my hands, not worth worrying about.

If I am having difficulty with the headspace, I silently repeat some of my favorite poems in my mind. Over time this technique has helped me, more than anything else, in being able to return to a comforted vantage point from which to continue in my trip.

For me poetry has a perfectly accessible significance as a form of art that I have a genuine love for and which also stands as a homage to the beauty of creation. There are many forms this can take for an individual. Poetry just happens to work for me.

There are some pitfalls. Sometimes I become so mentally beseiged with confusion that I have a hard time recalling poems and visually blitzed to a degree that renders reading a poem nearly impossible. Thankfully I also have audio recordings I downloaded off the internet to assist on these occasions. This works as well and often jogs my memory well enough that I only need a few introductory words to remember the poem. Mental recitation of a poem is the most efficacious form for me, in part because it requires me to engage in the process with more focus.

These are a couple ways that I am able to allow myself to merge with truly tough trips. However, I don't want to give the impression that this makes my trips entirely positive in the moment. It just helps me conjure the strength to accept the course that the trip is taking. Doing that is so much easier said than done in my experience.

If you do find yourself in a difficult spot during a trip, try to embrace it as a learning experience. You might not know how to deal with it at first, but you are provided with a great opportunity to grow.

 

[DwayneHoover]

Yea, mescaline is active in doses around 300-500mg. No way that much is going to fit on a blotter. You need a capsule or significant sized pill to hold that much, so whoever was saying that's what you got was bullshitting you in order to make a buck and thus are totally untrustworthy. Who knows what the hell you really got, probably LSD.

And the situations you describe tripping in are just so WRONG sounding... someone being pushed up against a car "forcibly kissed" etc etc??!! Tripping is NOT like smoking a joint or drinking a beer that you you might do in some random environment around a random bunch of whoever.

Tripping is something you approach like a voyage on a rocket to space, with explicit intent and careful planning and preparation. In a safe comfortable place in a home with music is best for first times and learning what it does to you.

So far as mental "intent" guiding where the trip will go, it does not really work that way. The best "mental poise" to adopt is one of calm quiet... try to just quiet your stream of words and thoughts and have a mind as much like a clear blue sky as you can... any thoughts or words, just let them come and go, exactly like clouds in the sky, observe them but dont grasp them or try to expand them or influence them, just try to let them pass or evaporate. This is the best way to deal with "bad trip" thoughts and feelings... try to remove yourself from the stream of negative ideation like you are standing above and behind yourself, and just let any unpleasant content evaporate by ignoring it or being above it or beside it... view it as an artifact, a spasm, not the "real you."

As The Beatles said in the song Tomorrow Never Knows "Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream..."

 

[bartlebooth]

So far as mental "intent" guiding where the trip will go, it does not really work that way. The best "mental poise" to adopt is one of calm quiet... try to just quiet your stream of words and thoughts and have a mind as much like a clear blue sky as you can... any thoughts or words, just let them come and go, exactly like clouds in the sky, observe them but dont grasp them or try to expand them or influence them, just try to let them pass of evaporate. This is the best way to deal with "bad trip" thoughts and feelings... try to remove yourself from the stream of negative ideation like you are standing above and behind yourself, and just let any unpleasant content evaporate by ignoring it or being above it or beside it... view it as an artifact, a spasm, not the "real you."

Well said! Thanks for that

 

[killermunchies]

Interesting post: so things are rarely actually double-dipped? Is that because the paper's already saturated and won't suck up more beyond a certain point or what?

When dealer's say tabs are double dipped, it's just a marketing ploy. If you were making acid tabs, why would you double dip them? It would only lose you money.

That being said, I actually had acid that was double dipped, kinda. The dealer I got the acid from had a vile of which one drop would be equivalent to an average tab. The dealer dripped the acid onto sweet tarts and sold it like that. I took two sweet tarts and tripped the hardest I ever have in my life. Later, I learned from my friend who bought them that the dealer put two drops on each sweet tart. But unless you see something actually being "double dipped," it probably wasn't.

 

[adamski10]

I think that the set and setting has been covered by the other posters- i will thought reiterate what they said, tripping feeds of your minds reaction to your environment 'nuff said.

On Combination with MDMA, i'm personally a great believer in this combo and have experimented with timings- depending on the purity of the mandy you've got ( ie... is it cut to fuck with speed) i'd drop together for the amazing loved up colour wash or the acid first wait a few hours, then the md... remember that lsd lasts far longer then the MD so make allowances for this.

Keep it Real

A x

 

[777xog]

Couple of things come to mind that should put your mind at ease...

1. By default, tripping generally leans in a positive direction. Your prior trips should not be seen as a precedent because as you said, the set/setting of those previous trips were not good.

2. You might want to take a smaller dose this time. Maybe take the MDMA and combine a small dose of mushrooms, (or maybe the LSD if you have a high degree of confidence that it's legit).

Are you familiar with Alan Watts? He says a lot about Zen and the god-mind thing. Always entertaining to listen to.

As The Beatles said in the song Tomorrow Never Knows "Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream..."

Also this^

 

[ambrielangel]

Couple of things come to mind that should put your mind at ease...

1. By default, tripping generally leans in a positive direction.

Are you familiar with Alan Watts? He says a lot about Zen and the god-mind thing. Always entertaining to listen to.

How do you know that tripping generally leans in a positive direction? I ask because I'd like to believe that.

I'm unfamiliar with Alan Watts, but I just found his essay "The New Alchemy"; I'm breaking into it now. His idea that Buddhism can be used as psychotherapy reflects my own experience, so I'm interested.

 

[ambrielangel]

remember that lsd lasts far longer then the MD so make allowances for this.

A x

Do your positive trips ever turn bad when the mdma starts to wear off?

 

[ambrielangel]

So far as mental "intent" guiding where the trip will go, it does not really work that way. The best "mental poise" to adopt is one of calm quiet... try to just quiet your stream of words and thoughts and have a mind as much like a clear blue sky as you can... any thoughts or words, just let them come and go, exactly like clouds in the sky, observe them but dont grasp them or try to expand them or influence them, just try to let them pass or evaporate. This is the best way to deal with "bad trip" thoughts and feelings... try to remove yourself from the stream of negative ideation like you are standing above and behind yourself, and just let any unpleasant content evaporate by ignoring it or being above it or beside it... view it as an artifact, a spasm, not the "real you."

As The Beatles said in the song Tomorrow Never Knows "Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream..."

I'm going to use the sky visualization when bad thoughts occur. I'll stand on the shore and ignore their siren's call. Thank you for the thoughts.

EDIT: By the way, I'm in psychophys research and it's really cool to think of negative thoughts as artifacts. Bless you.

 

[bartlebooth]

How do you know that tripping generally leans in a positive direction? I ask because I'd like to believe that.

Belief can play a large role in this. Without getting too religious, do you generally believe that existence is positive? What are your thoughts on how tripping factors into existence?

Personally I feel that existence is overwhelmingly positive. Tripping is an alternative way of experiencing existence, to put it very mildly. This to me indicates that tripping is generally positive. We have the capacity to make it negative, but it need not be that way.

I'll second the Alan Watts recommendation. Just remember that he is more akin to a physician than a guru.

 

[bartlebooth]

Do your positive trips ever turn bad when the mdma starts to wear off?

Not trying to speak for adamski10 here... I have used the same technique and I also get good results, so I think there is at least a little kinship there.

Your trip can turn bad at any given point in time and as the result of any given variable, including when the MDMA begins to wear off. You have the capacity to maintain a positive trip either way. However, some people are affected more by the drop-off of MDMA affects than others.

If you find that you have a pretty steep drop-off and it takes some time for you to rally your attitude, you might not want to add MDMA at all. If you do anyway, it would probably be best to time your dose so that the MDMA will not wear off before the other chemical(s).

I think it is best to be able to enjoy the trip without MDMA before deciding to try out combos including MDMA.