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Why do we feel the need to connect?

Many people find inspiration, grace, love, compassion in their religious practices... its not all about mass hysteria no matter how much you want to believe that. Its easy to be narrow minded. Yes religion has caused wars, has caused suicide bombers... but thats from distorted view points thats not what is at the heart of religions at the heart of it is true religious experience. Something deep inside your own heart.
 
take it and go..

stonerfromohio said:
Many people find inspiration, grace, love, compassion in their religious practices... its not all about mass hysteria no matter how much you want to believe that. Its easy to be narrow minded. Yes religion has caused wars, has caused suicide bombers... but thats from distorted view points thats not what is at the heart of religions at the heart of it is true religious experience. Something deep inside your own heart.
Click to expand...

the name of my post was except budda. am i allowed to quote myself everytime i post so when people quote me and they look even stupider all i have to say is either you didnt read my shit before you pressed quote or english isnt one of your stronger languages, anyways i agree whatever, what are you doing connecting with yourself through religion with eachother, yeah that sounds about right, you can meditate right and relax or hyperventilate and have a outerbody experience, which is more spiritual? are either spiritual, i say if you need to relax breathe like the buddhists do they sure know how to meditate, personally id rather rack my brain till i figure out whats wrong.. who is right, maybe im above meditation, probably not but i know that you arent better than me cause you breathe purposefully, anyother reason, it seems that even buddhists are succeptable to the religious superiority complex..


heres something
"ive stopped engaging in discussions about this for a reason because ive heard these worn out viewpoints before. People in the west have been scared of religion for a long time now,"
you certainly dont have a problem being honest with yourself enlightened one.


" If you engage in these practices you will see for yourself. I have found discussing these things with people coming from your perspective is not fruitful not to be disrespectful thats just what ive found....

you are making assumptions about me based on what? here is a quote from me, someone who never claimed to know anything and whos main point is this

"I don't doubt religion can benefit people either but I would say not for the reasons they believe. Same could be said about love. Some people need guidance or certain beliefs to not be self destructive. I think if you beat cancer and thank god your cheating yourself."

that sounds like you, how can you be a buddhist and not see how open minded i am?
i dont think you can teach me much except how show people that they arent more budda than me.. seriously that meditation breathing shit is played out. i got this advanced technique, very enlightned type stuff. its like meditation 2.0.

im disappointed that this is what i am doing to amuse myself, i was genuinely here to contribute positively with my sincere thoughts, instead i am arguing with someone i think must not even be reading my shit.. i apologize if anyone found my previous posts confusing, or offensive or off colour or whatever i was trying to give examples that were definitive of my thoughts and values and if i insulted anyone

heres what i call stating your good intentions without saying anything definitive..


Im not saying Love isn't important. It definitely is. I don't doubt religion can benefit people either but I would say not for the reasons they believe..


i think thats being very respectful. plus i mentioned buddhist in the title of my post..



ohhh no you didnt... check out this shit i am pulling up that you said...

One of the things I get from your post is a kind of trivialization of love, you seem to be saying since anything with more than a brain stem can feel love its not as significant. That may not be your direct point but thats something ive got out of what your saying. Love is beautiful, real, intense, and one of the driving forces of humanity.

i said that in like 1 line..

Whether or not you give religion a grain of salt or not every single one of them has been putting a great emphasis on love since the beginning of time. Theres a reason this is so, with love towards all beings we bring happiness to ourself and others, when we are loving we feel a kind of peace, we dont feel so alone we feel connected.

really, are you joking?

all religions have been putting great emphasis on love? i love you man, drink some kool aid...



Ive seen so many people that talk literally exactly like you, its the die-hard science folks when they start discussing humanity to me it always comes off as cold, and mechanical. Dont get me wrong im not calling you cold, I dont hate science but I feel like your viewpoint is the materialistic view point that I could never care to live with. Ive found truth in what the great sages/mystics/contemplatives have been saying for 5000 years, ive experienced and had glimpses of what they say.



you seem to think you know more than me, i think you sound like an idiot. who is right, i am trying to come down to a level that you cant get at by saying a bunch of crap. infact all you have proven is that a high school drop out automatically through learned how to be at least as open minded as you without help from buddha or any of that stuff i dont talk about because i dont know about, you should follow me. but i wouldnt let you, i would let you find your own way if you said you had the best maps available.. good luck, i hope you havent looked at any of your maps yet.. know what i mean?
 
Why do we feel the need to connect? Because our reality seems less trivial and pointless when it is shared, and also to overcome inferiority complexes inherent in our existence because it's hard not to feel inferior next to the void.
But often times we find a group of fools and lament our misfortune at not being able to connect with anyone even if we wanted to, damned if you do and damned if you don't. How pointless.
Not talking about anything in particular...
 
I never said I was superior.. I have no idea what you were saying with the hyperventilate part... that hole chunk confused me. I never mentioned thinking im better than you or breathing purposefully... ya thats one type of meditation. I dont understand the meditation 2.0 thing.... I never spoke anything about some advanced technique... I never called you names you called me an idiot... Pointless conversation. This is generally why I dont engage on bluelight because of people like you. I made assumptions based on what you wrote... is there anything else I can do? I dont know you what I do know of you is what you have written. Also yes at the core of religion I do believe love was one of the major emphasis ive read a lot of scriptures from various religions and they all point to that. A lot of your sentences don't make much sense...
 
Many people find inspiration, grace, love, compassion in their religious practices... its not all about mass hysteria no matter how much you want to believe that. Its easy to be narrow minded. Yes religion has caused wars, has caused suicide bombers... but thats from distorted view points thats not what is at the heart of religions at the heart of it is true religious experience. Something deep inside your own heart. me narrow minded?



you engage in these practices you will see for yourself. I have found discussing these things with people coming from your perspective is not fruitful not to be disrespectful thats just what ive found.... just cause you say not to be disrespectful....


One of the things I get from your post is a kind of trivialization of love, you seem to be saying since anything with more than a brain stem can feel love its not as significant. That may not be your direct point but thats something ive got out of what your saying. Love is beautiful, real, intense, and one of the driving forces of humanity

quote from me.. "love is definitely important"


ive heard these worn out viewpoints before

man i could cut and paste all your shit...

IDIOT
 
maybe my narrow mind?

stonerfromohio said:
I never said I was superior.. I have no idea what you were saying with the hyperventilate part... that hole chunk confused me. I never mentioned thinking im better than you or breathing purposefully... ya thats one type of meditation. I dont understand the meditation 2.0 thing.... I never spoke anything about some advanced technique... I never called you names you called me an idiot... Pointless conversation. This is generally why I dont engage on bluelight because of people like you. I made assumptions based on what you wrote... is there anything else I can do? I dont know you what I do know of you is what you have written. Also yes at the core of religion I do believe love was one of the major emphasis ive read a lot of scriptures from various religions and they all point to that. A lot of your sentences don't make much sense...
Click to expand...

Is focused on real shit... if you missed what I was explaining is some people need/use religion to learn things that others know, my hyper ventilation comment was my smart ass way of saying. That there are other ways to achieve the same results... there are more ways than I can name to achieve anything you can through religion.. without it..if you think not than you need to be more open minded..
 
j0nblaze said:
Many people find inspiration, grace, love, compassion in their religious practices... its not all about mass hysteria no matter how much you want to believe that. Its easy to be narrow minded. Yes religion has caused wars, has caused suicide bombers... but thats from distorted view points thats not what is at the heart of religions at the heart of it is true religious experience. Something deep inside your own heart. me narrow minded?



you engage in these practices you will see for yourself. I have found discussing these things with people coming from your perspective is not fruitful not to be disrespectful thats just what ive found.... just cause you say not to be disrespectful....


One of the things I get from your post is a kind of trivialization of love, you seem to be saying since anything with more than a brain stem can feel love its not as significant. That may not be your direct point but thats something ive got out of what your saying. Love is beautiful, real, intense, and one of the driving forces of humanity

quote from me.. "love is definitely important"


ive heard these worn out viewpoints before

man i could cut and paste all your shit...

IDIOT
Click to expand...




I dont understand how that is narrow minded? If you actually read religious scripture people like Jesus/Krishna/Buddha/Mohammed preached things that came from the heart, their emphasis was on the heart, on love. It has nothing to do with open or narrow mindedness its what the scriptures say... ive read them. I dont see how the above comment was narrow minded at all.

I want it to be clear im not trying to battle you or be a smart ass or call names as you have been in your last few posts. I told you try these practices yourself any one of these 3000 year old traditions (some of which are much older) and you will find that it is transformational. Im not saying any one technique, or anything esoteric just try them out... if you want go to your local YMCA and do a yoga class. You may be surprised that you will find peace within yourself. These practices can act as a catalyst for deeper and deeper states of peace. I'm not talking about narrow mindedness or belief... ive engaged all of them and that has been my own experience and millions of others over the past 5000 years. And whats great is you dont need to believe anything... you can practice all of those with out a system of religion.

You didnt include other tidbits that made it appear you were trying to trivialize love... just because you copy paste one part of your post doesnt mean the other parts arent still there. Again when something appears a certain way on a board because of what you typed thats all I have to go off of.

I have heard these viewpoints millions of types with the same type of iterations over and over as ive been on this board a very long time. Not quite sure how that makes me an idiot or how thats appropriate to the discussion...

We are discussing ideas... no need to get hostile, people can disagree with you and use logic to back it up... you dont have to resort to calling me an idiot... this is very typical and the discussions turn into bashing and hence why it can be very tedious engaging on message boards when this is the result. Because who want to spend the time typing this out when its probably in vain anyway?
 
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sorry to be hostile

It seemed to me because of what i was saying, you were assuming, i needed some spiritual guidance to achieve something. that you were aware of and i wasnt, you seemed to think that because i have in your eyes deemed religion useless, and therefore couldnt already be aware of the benefits.
It sounded to me like if i wasnt ready to take a big leap with religion i could just do a yoga class at the y and even that might make me appreciate what you are saying..

Do you really think you have to tell me the y has yoga.(that seems very condescending) or that i could get the similar(i would personally say more)benefits from doing yoga than any religion? It seemed to me you werent even reading what i had written. i only said that the benefits that people get from religion may not always be for the reasons they believe.

If i thought i needed to list all the benefits that people get from religion i definitely could listed a bunch, but my point had nothing to do with how beneficial it was but it could benefit them regardless of whether what they believed or didnt believe was true or not.

This is the attitude i perceived, i felt you implied that i was narrow minded and i was trying to show you how open minded i was. this is what ultimately caused my answers to become rude. i apoligise for that, but please recognise that you were trying to convince me of things i was well aware of. and had said myself in different words.

I personally think it may have been your strong beliefs that prevented you from seeing that i was making a pefectly good argument, that wasnt taking anything away from religion, but merely suggesting that the same results werer possible without it. Anyone truly dedicated to being the best they can be can do so without instruction of any kind.

I believe that this will and has to always be possible. I think you may have thought my "elevation" of human potential somehow was a lowering the value of religion.


here is the start:

me:It good to understand that we are animals with instincts.. how evolved or advanced would be an opinion.. I think its more healthy to understand science than believe there are special forces at work.. we are already special, we shouldn't look for explanations outside ourselves because we have unlimited potential.. well some of us.


you:I didnt talk about anything outside myself.... I said peace within my own heart... and whats in me is in everyone. I didnt talk about special forces. Im very familiar with science im a psychology major....


me:All I was saying was all of our emotions are based on instincts. They have to if you agree that we have and are evolving.. that is my point.. when we let our instincts determine what we do then we are moving backwards.. I feel love. But I undrstand (I think) where that evolved from.. does anyone or anything choose what they love? Maybe or maybe not, the best we can do is strive to understand ourselves completely so we can make good decisions. Does the idea that love is something that all animals with more than a brain stem feel? From what I understand the willingness to put others before yourself is an instinct that stops animals from prematurely abandoning their young, or not eating them.. Does that take away from the love I feel for my daughter or does it help me deal with the my emotions. Since you are a psychology major and I dropped out of high school maybe you can tell me? I am genuinely interested in intelligent discussion and appreciate the oppurtunity that bl gives us to have discussions.. please tell me how a motherfucker can have a more humble opinion? please..
 
My whole point was that I connect with people not because of evolution, or feeling bad about myself, or because I need people to feel worthy... or for any reason except I love people. So ya we got very side tracked... thats my whole point :) I connect with people because I love them.
 
I'm finding I'm learning from everyone, no matter what so thanks. Hope you are getting similar results. Sorry for my part in the declining tone of the discussion but remind all to learn something from it, inspite of whatever hostility I may have let get out of my control.
 
Jonblaze you seemed to have forgotten some of your own wisdom... happens to the best of us.

j0nblaze said:
I think them feeling like they were attacked, says alot about them only.
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I completely agree with both you and stonerfromohio as you're merely using words which aesthetically appeal to you to describe the One reality of which we are all a part. For some reason you think words coming from Steven Hawking are more up your alley, fair enough. He is cute looking in that wheelchair, isn't he? Many people think the Dalai Lama is right up their alley. Good Ol Tensin Gyatso! What a crazy ol dude.

I feel like this thread has been enlightening and I thank all the participants for that. :)

But I will say this: you can't really fathom the benefits of dedicated meditation before-hand, no matter how many accounts of it you read, any more than you can fathom a DMT-trip just from reading people's reports. Now if you aren't trying to find short cuts, then written accounts of enlightenment or accounts of enlightened people can be coupled with various meditative techniques to greatly bolster the understanding and possibly speed up the process. Enlightenment is as real as rocks.

Not saying you didn't already know that. I'd just like to emphasize that point.

EDIT: now if I could just split a single hair for a moment, you said that emotions are based on instincts, whereas I say they are based on genetics which set the stage for thought patterns that then are shaped and transformed by environmental factors. Nature and nurture all wrapped up into one, if you will, which is how both of you guys were right all along.
 
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^^
Nice one.. just mentioned Steve as an alternative.. don't think I know all about meditation, but don't think I necessarily would have to. There is more than one way to skin a rabbit is the only concrete point I think I was trying to make about that.. could you fathom achieving all the benefits of meditation through something else, or a bunch of other stuff? Could you fathom that someday, we might not need to meditate? If not think about how people once clung to their religions, and needed to, because they didn't understand the world they lived in.. IMO. I'm sure being circumcised and not eating pork was probably a good idea, but not anymore... do you see?
 
^^
Nice one.. just mentioned Steve as an alternative.. don't think I know all about meditation, but don't think I necessarily would have to. There is more than one way to skin a rabbit is the only concrete point I think I was trying to make about that.. could you fathom achieving all the benefits of meditation through something else, or a bunch of other stuff? Could you fathom that someday, we might not need to meditate? If not think about how people once clung to their religions, and needed to, because they didn't understand the world they lived in.. IMO. I'm sure being circumcised and not eating pork was probably a good idea, but not anymore... do you see?
 
We are social creatures, it is how we have managed to last as long as we have on this planet. It is much easier to help each other survive than trying to do it by yourself.

We build our psychology based on the human interaction we receive from a very young age, the simple act of your parents raising you teaches you that its ok to show some dependence because without the support you wouldn't survive.

The same psychology goes into how parents socialise and raise their children. You want your kid to connect to the people around them. Cases where children grew up largely in environments of abuse and neglect usually result in them developing a psychology based around abuse and neglect. They retreat into their own heads and live in their own separate world.

It makes us want to find a mate and carry on our genes. That simple urge is what made the 7 billion of us on the planet right now. Love is everything its cracked up to be, that's why everyone gets so bitter about not having it.
 
j0nblaze said:
^^
Nice one.. just mentioned Steve as an alternative.. don't think I know all about meditation, but don't think I necessarily would have to. There is more than one way to skin a rabbit is the only concrete point I think I was trying to make about that.. could you fathom achieving all the benefits of meditation through something else, or a bunch of other stuff? Could you fathom that someday, we might not need to meditate? If not think about how people once clung to their religions, and needed to, because they didn't understand the world they lived in.. IMO. I'm sure being circumcised and not eating pork was probably a good idea, but not anymore... do you see?
Click to expand...

I dont think being circumcised and not eating pork has anything to do with meditation... thay cant be lumped together... IMO. I think there will always be the need to meditate... as Coffee drinker said enlightenment is as real as rocks, and meditation is a way to still the mind and bring more peace and awareness into daily life. I still think your trying to link clinging to religion and meditation. Maybe not but I still whole heatedly believe real meditation has nothing to do with religion.
 
Why do you feel the need to connect? Because there is bliss in the union with another being and the love that can arise from it laid down as a possibility in our nature. If you were feeling that way right now, you wouldn't ask but just enjoy it and think the reason was simply to make you feel happy.

It's like asking "Why do we want to take drugs that make us feel euphoric?" And indeed drugs such as opiates and ecstacy can mimic some of those feelings (as it's also chemically based and on the same chemicals, yet it's not JUST about chemicalsl but also a mysterious form of "energy", which is where the spiritual part comes in.

I find it strange that someone would even need to ask this question. Have you ever seen a couple with a new baby or a couple just fallen in love? Don't they adore to be close to each other and love each other just for the joy of it?

We are all programmed to love our parents as children for our survival, the opposite sex for survival and reproduction when we grow up, and our children until they grow up for their survival. That is the evolutionary basis of it. It's nature's way of making sure we support each other in the difficult task of surviving on Earth. There are also some who have access to more love than what biology has to provide, but this is a more priviliged state.

And those of us more sensitive to it can also recognise the capacity of love in another (though everyone does subconsciously and everyone loves someone with a high capacity for love). Yet another way that people are NOT equal. And those with little access to love themselves DO like to trivialise it as they don't want to feel inferior or like they are missing out. Sad for them, but I'm glad I'm not one of those - seems like just what really gives meaning to us humans in this world has been denied to them.
 
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^^
Great post

"still the mind and bring more peace and awareness into daily life. I still think your trying to link clinging to religion and meditation. Maybe not but I still whole heatedly believe real meditation has nothing to do with religion", unless ones mind was still and at peace, grasshopper.
 
Indeed if your mind is already still great =) thats where meditation just begins a still mind, meditation isnt trying to achieve a still mind its resting with a still mind. Meditation while wandering is not meditation.
 
Clinging to anything is folly. So yeah if you feel "you must meditate, it's this hugely important thing" then you're already missing the point. You might as well not meditate, just forget about it and live your life. Maybe revisit it later.
I can buy that the same effects of meditation could be found elsewhere, but endless analysis is the opposite of a stilled mind, so I'm just gonna chill out.
 
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