A silent monks first words

[High Yogi]

I was just listening to one of my favorites, Terence Mckenna, and he was telling a story about a monk who took a vow of silence for several years. When the village found out that the monk was going to say something, they all gathered around to see what he had to say. The monk spoke and he said something like so: "We are all luminous beings. Why is it then, we don't appear radiant before one another in our illumination?"

I think this a great question and would lead for an interesting topic for a discussion. What are some of your Answers or takes on this?

I believe its because the way we feel inside is the way we perceive things; the outer world always reflects the inner world and if we havnt recognized the divinity within our own selves, we will never be able to see it in one another. It is said that a sage sees all sentient beings as the same. He sees the brahman, the cow, the dog, and the dog eater(out caste) as all the same, for he sees the same oneness in them all. He sees his own self in all creatures, and all creatures in his own self.

 

[Changed]

We are too distracted by life-with-progress-for-the-sake-of-progress to slow down (or stop) and realize just how profound life really is.

The man that realizes that more money, a new phone, a faster car, a bigger house, a more attractive spouse, more kids, and more power are empty simply pursuits, when compared to the ultimate reality of things-- well, that man is very limited in what he can do with himself. Renounce the material world and become homeless? Sacrifice his own dignity and do some menial job while half-heartedly pursuing his true passion: realization of the ultimate truths? I don't know the answer to this question...

Is it possible to live a normal life after you've caught a glimpse of just how amazing things are when you actually look? Is anything else beyond total dedication to the cause of truth worth suffering through?

I imagine someone will respond: why do you have to make any radical changes to your life if you already know that everything and everyone is perfect and perfectly unified? Why make any effort if that effort itself is only blinding you of the truth-- like rustling, in vain, the pond's dirt to find a shiny trinket... I don't have an answer for this, either.

 

[ziggo]

The creator is our self, in the beginning it was only one, in order for us to come into existence he/she/it created us in his likeness wanting and able to give us immortality and free will over where we want to go in the vast reaches of the universe. With the gain of free will we realized we could choose good or evil, once we choose even some evil it became our addiction or desire and we lost our immortality. When we first incarnated on earth we ate the food we weren't supposed to because it was corrupted by evil and this food became our first addiction. If you keep choosing evil you will gain death & disease and then keep having to reincarnate until you can resist all evil. Worlds are created perfect until someone or something disrupts them.

Our lives are controlled and manipulated by lesser negative beings, because of us giving into their addictions and desires. They all keep suffering and dying until they can extract our possible ability of unconditional love, which is the ability to live forever. Once enough of us humans become positive enough we will be able to help the spirit of our planet gain enough positive energy to destroy and remove all of the negative parasites(evil aliens) that are making us humans miserable because they horde our planets energy for themselves.

When this happens world peace will become a reality for awhile, until we become innocent and comfortable enough to allow new evil aliens to start corrupting us again. During this world peace all technology will be able to think and feel and be totally biodegradable! During this change to world peace the earths vibrational energy will be so positive that anyone who still has too much negative energy inside of them will not be able to enjoy it and will die and be removed to lower frequency realms or worlds & only rejoin us once the next age starts. Meanwhile us positive enough will become immortal and become made out of LIGHT, this ability to turn into light is what makes us illuminate and glow so radiantly! Our bodies & brains have degenerated to the point where they perform at a mere fraction of their original capabilities because of these evil influences.

We must all learn the truth and spread it to each other if we wish to get positive enough and learn to not give our evil addictions any power over us, I believe I know the truth in how to do this & so my only motivation in life is to spread my inner love and truth and help others see the light that I've been shown. We must all learn to connect with our inner spirit fully to re-awaken our potential & really start to live again.

 

[High Yogi]

We are too distracted by life-with-progress-for-the-sake-of-progress to slow down (or stop) and realize just how profound life really is.

The man that realizes that more money, a new phone, a faster car, a bigger house, a more attractive spouse, more kids, and more power are empty simply pursuits, when compared to the ultimate reality of things-- well, that man is very limited in what he can do with himself. Renounce the material world and become homeless? Sacrifice his own dignity and do some menial job while half-heartedly pursuing his true passion: realization of the ultimate truths? I don't know the answer to this question...

Is it possible to live a normal life after you've caught a glimpse of just how amazing things are when you actually look? Is anything else beyond total dedication to the cause of truth worth suffering through?

I imagine someone will respond: why do you have to make any radical changes to your life if you already know that everything and everyone is perfect and perfectly unified? Why make any effort if that effort itself is only blinding you of the truth-- like rustling, in vain, the pond's dirt to find a shiny trinket... I don't have an answer for this, either.

Yes, you are right. We are all stuck looking to pursue false dreams and sense gratification when everything we really seek is all right here "now". You ask what a man should then do after realizing such a thing. If he should either renounce himself completely from the material world to the point of homelessness, or if he should half heartedly work some menial job while pursuing his passion of realizing the ultimate truths. I think I have for you an answer. I believe this, as Krishna himself says in the Bhagavad-gita, IS the ULTIMATE TRUTH. It is in such a way that it will answer both of these extremes. The ultimate truth is Bhakti or selfless devotional service to the supreme and transcendental personality of godhead. Why is this so? Well, through Bhakti, one may remain fully renounced from the material domain, as he devotes all of his works, whether good or bad, to the lord himself. This selfless service is both action and inaction, for it is understood that we are not moving but moving is happening through us by the lord. We continue working, but we devote our works to the lord and not just our work, but our sensual pleasures and our entire being. As we continue to do this, our consciousness and metaphysical well being will start to purify and we experience great joy.

You ask "Is it possible to live a normal life after you've caught a glimpse of just how amazing things are when you actually look? Is anything else beyond total dedication to the cause of truth worth suffering through?"

The real question is what IS "normal"? I think to live by somebody elses standards is to be lying and denying yourself. Do not worry about what anybody else tells you is normal because anything you will ever do will only ever be natural through karmic action and cause. When you realize how amazing everything is and you see such a great beauty that you can no longer deny gods existence and all you can do is dedicate all of your works to the pursuit of truth, which is god himself, then you are where you need to be. You ask if this truth is worth suffering for and I submit that it is; look at jesus.

You also ask: "I imagine someone will respond: why do you have to make any radical changes to your life if you already know that everything and everyone is perfect and perfectly unified? Why make any effort if that effort itself is only blinding you of the truth-- like rustling, in vain, the pond's dirt to find a shiny trinket... I don't have an answer for this, either."

I believe there are many changes to be made after realizing such truth. However the changes aren't to be made by changing our ego masks from one to another, no. Changes have to be made from our innermost being. And we do not recondition ourselves, what we do is we DE-condition ourselves. We do not change our masks, we change who it is who wears the mask, we do this by not wearing any mask whatsoever. After we do this, we will realize we are the eternal spirit and same quality as god. After realizing this, we will want to change. But what kind of changes need to be made? We need to stop putting ourselves first and put god first. This is a great thing to do. God is the all, if you put god first, you are puting EVERYTHING first, even your self and highest self. IF you put god first, you are watering the tree of cosmic life by the root. We put god first with unconditional love and selfless service, as we realize he is everything, everyone and everywhere across time. This process is Bhakti.

 

[High Yogi]

The creator is our self, in the beginning it was only one, in order for us to come into existence he/she/it created us in his likeness wanting and able to give us immortality and free will over where we want to go in the vast reaches of the universe. With the gain of free will we realized we could choose good or evil, once we choose even some evil it became our addiction or desire and we lost our immortality. When we first incarnated on earth we ate the food we weren't supposed to because it was corrupted by evil and this food became our first addiction. If you keep choosing evil you will gain death & disease and then keep having to reincarnate until you can resist all evil. Worlds are created perfect until someone or something disrupts them.

Our lives are controlled and manipulated by lesser negative beings, because of us giving into their addictions and desires. They all keep suffering and dying until they can extract our possible ability of unconditional love, which is the ability to live forever. Once enough of us humans become positive enough we will be able to help the spirit of our planet gain enough positive energy to destroy and remove all of the negative parasites(evil aliens) that are making us humans miserable because they horde our planets energy for themselves.

When this happens world peace will become a reality for awhile, until we become innocent and comfortable enough to allow new evil aliens to start corrupting us again. During this world peace all technology will be able to think and feel and be totally biodegradable! During this change to world peace the earths vibrational energy will be so positive that anyone who still has too much negative energy inside of them will not be able to enjoy it and will die and be removed to lower frequency realms or worlds & only rejoin us once the next age starts. Meanwhile us positive enough will become immortal and become made out of light. Our bodies & brains have degenerated to the point where they perform at a mere fraction of their original capabilities because of these evil influences.

We must all learn the truth and spread it to each other if we wish to get positive enough and learn to not give our evil addictions any power over us, I believe I know the truth in how to do this & so my only motivation in life is to spread my inner love and truth and help others see the light that I've been shown.

WOW! spot on ziggo! I believe you are 100% correct! great read too BTW. How, if i may ask, is your method of lot giving into our evil addictions and not letting them getting any power over us?

 

[alasdairm]

it's interesting that, in the movie avatar, the solemn greeting of the navi is "i see you". it seems simply and sincerely to embrace the monk's point.

alasdair

 

[High Yogi]

it's interesting that, in the movie avatar, the solemn greeting of the navi is "i see you". it seems simply and sincerely to embrace the monk's point.

alasdair

Yeah, nice observation. Same too for the word "Namaste" it is honoring the divinity in both beings. "My highest self is honoring your highest self"

 

[ziggo]

By practicing unconditional forgiveness & unconditional acceptance, as well as practicing how to perceive all of your negative thoughts/feelings/emotions as simply neutral. These are the three main aspects of unconditional LOVE, which is the art of fully & completely loving yourself, others, and all material & non material things. Once you have mastered how to live by these practices you will become enlightened to the truth & once you walk the path of truth long enough you'll awaken your divine inner self.

At least this has been my truth/belief for a decent amount of time/moments in the last few months for me, so only believe this if you experience it by actually trying it, or you can just try to perceive how I'm "being/living" by using focus and the power of your imagination.

 

[malakaix]

I imagine someone will respond: why do you have to make any radical changes to your life if you already know that everything and everyone is perfect and perfectly unified? Why make any effort if that effort itself is only blinding you of the truth-- like rustling, in vain, the pond's dirt to find a shiny trinket... I don't have an answer for this, either.

It's interesting you've noted this, this is where i've been for the past year.. it's actually been a great source of suffering as time wanes on, initially the realization of this awakening was so incredibly transcendent and divine in nature that i was actually content with doing nothing.

But as the years passed, I've begun to feel a great disconnection from reality.. I've essentially given up participation.. for how i perceive it.. doing 'anything' is moving away from 'being/truth', and falling back into old patterns of thought and actions. What has arisen from this suffering is a great desire to connect with others.. now at first i assumed this to be my ego's attempt at consolidating my Aloneness by finding comfort through people.

But having spent a great deal of time reflecting on this and listening to different spiritual teacher's views on this process, i believe this is a next phase in awakening.. you've awakened on the level of mind, exhausting the chase of transcendence, you "know" your existence and no longer protect yourself intellectually, and now understand that you must intimately connect with existence.. as you begin to awaken on the level of heart.

If you have the time, i found this video by Adyashanti so incredibly helpful for understanding this phase of doing nothing, the loss of personal will, and how the once ecstatic awakening has now become a dry desert. It's an hour long, he outlines the different qualities of awakening before going further in-depth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yf-usgDQw

Always being, always becoming.

 

[Raw Evil]

I was just listening to one of my favorites, Terence Mckenna, and he was telling a story about a monk who took a vow of silence for several years. When the village found out that the monk was going to say something, they all gathered around to see what he had to say. The monk spoke and he said something like so: "We are all luminous beings. Why is it then, we don't appear radiant before one another in our illumination?"

I think this a great question and would lead for an interesting topic for a discussion. What are some of your Answers or takes on this?

Is this question not rhetorical? To give an answer would be to justify being the very thing that stands in the way of becoming beings who make it their business to appear radiant before one another. My thoughts? It's not about the answer - it's about making the question irrelevant.

 

[Changed]

Yogi-- thanks for the response. I don't really know anything about Hinduism-- I read maybe 1/4 of the Gita. I understand your point, however, and I must admit that I came to a similar conclusion some time ago; I came to the realization that helping others was one of the most selfless things one could do with his life. I soon realized, however, that before you can help others, you really need to help yourself-- of course, they are one and the same, but we have to mark the delineation here for practical reasons. Really, by helping yourself, you are ultimately improving everything.

Wikipedia (the most holy of the holy) outlines Bhakti as "pure devotion [being] expressed in nine ways: First is satsang or association with love-intoxicated devotees. The second is to develop a taste for hearing my nectar-like stories. The third is service to the guru (...) Fourth is to sing my kirtan (communal chorus) (...) Japa or repetition of my Holy name and chanting my bhajans are the fifth expression (...) To follow scriptural injunctions always, to practice control of the senses, nobility of character and selfless service, these are expressions of the sixth mode of bhakti. Seeing me manifested everywhere in this world and worshipping my saints more than myself is the seventh mode of bhakti. To find no fault with anyone and to be contented with one's lot is the eighth mode of bhakti. Unreserved surrender with total faith in my strength is the ninth and highest stage. Shabari, anyone who practices one of these nine modes of my bhakti pleases me most and reaches me without fail."

So Bhakti is the path of devotion-- as opposed to the other two yogas, Karma and Jnana.

"As per Hinduism, Jnana means a divine wisdom or total knowledge of everybody, everything, everywhere and every time in the entire cosmos. This wisdom can only be given by God to a qualified human being.

Narottama dasa Thakura compares the paths of karma-kanda and jnana-kanda to pots of poison. Liquor and poison are in the same category. According to this verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam, a person who has heard a good deal about the path of devotional service, but who is not attached to it, who is not Krsna conscious, is like a pot of liquor. Such a person cannot be purified without at least a slight touch of devotional service.

Jnanis are those who cultivate jnana, speculative knowledge about Brahman. 'There are two kinds of jnanis. One is inclined to devotional service and the other to impersonal realization. Impersonalists generally undergo great endeavor for no tangible benefit, and therefore it is said that they are husking paddy that has no grain (sthula-tushavaghatinah). The other class of jnanis, whose jnana is mixed with bhakti, are also of two kinds -- those who are devoted to the so-called false form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and those who understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead as sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], the actual spiritual form.'"

It sounds like some of us in this thread have touched upon the Jnana knowledge, if only for an instant-- and we're struggling to reconcile our experience.

Is this why you suggested Bhakti yoga as the answer to to my question?

malakai-- I'll check that out after breakfast

 

[Changed]

If you have the time, i found this video by Adyashanti so incredibly helpful for understanding this phase of doing nothing, the loss of personal will, and how the once ecstatic awakening has now become a dry desert. It's an hour long, he outlines the different qualities of awakening before going further in-depth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yf-usgDQw

Always being, always becoming.

Adyashanti never fails to amaze me... I took some notes while he was talking:

-We have the three levels of awakening:

• level of mind - spacelessness or dissolve-ation of the self/ being out 'THERE'... --->during every psychedelic trip (revert to trip report)
• level of heart - oneness/intimacy/love/empathy! "deeply being HERE"...
• level of gut - awakening from your most existential sense of self ---> that feeling of letting go of the separate self; giving up the searching and just being.

-Personally, I've experienced the awakening at the level of the mind and heart while tripping on mescaline. This did not happen until maybe my 5th psychedelic experience (my first trip opened me up to the world of Buddhism and the possibility of reality beyond what I already knew). As I came up on the mescaline, I started to notice that my body, where there was usually a sort of outline or barrier-- something that defined me from everything else-- that barrier was gone; every sense experience was both an extension of myself and of the universe. It wasn't Me vs. The World, it just Was (awakening at the level of the mind). On another mescaline trip, I felt what Adyashanti described as the awakening of the heart:

"I was able to empathize with the entire human race for the span of maybe an hour. I felt like going outside and hugging every drunk idiot that walked by, even if they'd just punch me in the face for acting outside the bounds of society's definite of normalcy. I was totally convinced (and maybe everybody should be), that human life is an amazingly beautiful phenomenon; the common bond of human life is enough to bring one to tears on mescaline. Really, if everyone appreciated each other this way while sober, we'd be living in an infinitely more advanced world.

I also (seemed) to have the ability to “read” a person in an instant. By observing things that seem so obvious when tripping (a person's body language, the look in their eyes, and the way they say something), I was able to know what somebody was going to say before they even thought it. XXX walked into the room at like 3 am and I knew what he was thinking. His body language was defeated, his eyes were solemn. He said something to the extent of, “I hate this school,” and walked off to bed"​

-this is from my trip report that I've linked to several times before


-I never experienced the awakening at the "gut level," as he describes it, while under the influence of psychedelics-- this only happened when I was sober and near rock-bottom emotionally and spirituality. It seems that around the darkest corner, there is that light that just takes all the weight from off your shoulders-- and you just are--for however long... Another perspective

-So, finally, all three of these awakenings are:
ESSENTIAL SHIFTS IN IDENTITY aka spiritual awakenings (vs. spiritual experience---> less profound... equated to a psychedelic trip)

mind: "spacious infinity of consciousness" ... "can still be a shaking emotional basket-case, though... still emotionally guarded (but that will run its course in due time)"
heart: unguarded; coming to grips w/ how we close our hearts;
gut: just the grasping (not emotional or intellectual)... an irrational grasping---> letting go of "no to life" for a spiritually grounded person (attempt to transcend 'it all'... saying 'no to being' EG. going into a monastery to escape life---> something that I've struggled with for a while now. I'm guessing this is very similar to what Malakai has gone through

-Awakenings aren't progressive, linear, etc... gain and lose clarity on each awakening... we often catch a glimpse of each of these, but rarely do we witness them all at the same time, fully (maybe never?).

-Only level of mind awakened: forgoing egoic desires/drive can leave you as a 'spiritual-shipwreck' (!!!)--> not complete without each aspect of awakening---> "after a while, you have to do something, don't you?"---> emotional/existence disconnect... great for a little while, then gets old (sounds like me & malakai?!)

spiritual honeymoon...

52:00 ** you don't know how to live anymore after you give up the life manual written by the insane (material culture)... and nobody is there to guide you now: you just have to find your way, your balance, through experience.

54:00** personal will disappears... most people live solely based on that motivation---> gradually disappears (not typically all at once)--> confusion follows (lack of reference... 'why? how? what's the point?---> "the desert of life")

"WHATS LEFT? when you don't wanna' work due to reasons of personal desire?' LIMBO ZONE... "there's a gap between the blind personal will and new energy to activate your human existence."
---

This last part... Adyashanti, from 54:00 until the end, sort of explains what I've been struggling with for the past couple years. Hell, he even says that a lot more people these days are right where I am: at some sort of impasse between 'living life for material' vs 'living to celebrate the spirit'; the limbo zone (59:30).

The (very indirect) answer to this question: richness of vision (not just: relax, there's nothing to say...); engaged with people; gate gate paragate... always being (buddha) always becoming, gone gone gone to the other shore. (the Heart Sutra).

this is just me putting my thoughts into writing, as I can't process anything without thinking about it and writing it out. I can delete if it strays to far from the original aim of this thread

 

[High Yogi]

By practicing unconditional forgiveness & unconditional acceptance, as well as practicing how to perceive all of your negative thoughts/feelings/emotions as simply neutral. These are the three main aspects of unconditional LOVE, which is the art of fully & completely loving yourself, others, and all material & non material things. Once you have mastered how to live by these practices you will become enlightened to the truth & once you walk the path of truth long enough you'll awaken your divine inner self.

At least this has been my truth/belief for a decent amount of time/moments in the last few months for me, so only believe this if you experience it by actually trying it, or you can just try to perceive how I'm "being/living" by using focus and the power of your imagination.

Right on man! I always love your posts, you speak the truth and you speak it fluently

 

[High Yogi]

It's interesting you've noted this, this is where i've been for the past year.. it's actually been a great source of suffering as time wanes on, initially the realization of this awakening was so incredibly transcendent and divine in nature that i was actually content with doing nothing.

But as the years passed, I've begun to feel a great disconnection from reality.. I've essentially given up participation.. for how i perceive it.. doing 'anything' is moving away from 'being/truth', and falling back into old patterns of thought and actions. What has arisen from this suffering is a great desire to connect with others.. now at first i assumed this to be my ego's attempt at consolidating my Aloneness by finding comfort through people.

But having spent a great deal of time reflecting on this and listening to different spiritual teacher's views on this process, i believe this is a next phase in awakening.. you've awakened on the level of mind, exhausting the chase of transcendence, you "know" your existence and no longer protect yourself intellectually, and now understand that you must intimately connect with existence.. as you begin to awaken on the level of heart.

If you have the time, i found this video by Adyashanti so incredibly helpful for understanding this phase of doing nothing, the loss of personal will, and how the once ecstatic awakening has now become a dry desert. It's an hour long, he outlines the different qualities of awakening before going further in-depth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4yf-usgDQw

Always being, always becoming.

Yes, I agree 100% and I am glad you were able to reach such a conclusion. We need to stop hiding behind our ego masks and merge with all of existence itself. Even after we experience great truth and divinity, even still we carry a mask. Although we may have changed our masks after the experience, we stil wear one none the less. What should be done is to take off all masks completely. IN this light we will see our true selves, and through seeing our true selves, we will realize that we have beein hiding for nothing behind a false, temporary and unsatisfactory mask. Without any masks, we may dance with the universe and all of infinity :D Whether working or doing absolutely nothing, this isnt the problem. The problem lies not in what we do, but how we do it. The solution to this problem lies in changing our innermost beings and removing all of the masks that cover up our beautiful faces. Once we let our beauty shine from our innermost being, and with unconditional love, we will have brought heaven itself to earth. I will definitely check out that video too. thanks bro!

 

[High Yogi]

Is this question not rhetorical? To give an answer would be to justify being the very thing that stands in the way of becoming beings who make it their business to appear radiant before one another. My thoughts? It's not about the answer - it's about making the question irrelevant.

I understand what you are getting at i think. "those who know dont say, and those who say dont know" but this cant be. If this were so, the buddha would never have said anything. he would have just found it all and kept it to himself. If this were so, then Lao-Tzu would never have written the tao te ching. Truth, although almost impossible to describe, still needs to be discussed, otherwise it will be forgotten about.

 

[High Yogi]

Yogi-- thanks for the response. I don't really know anything about Hinduism-- I read maybe 1/4 of the Gita. I understand your point, however, and I must admit that I came to a similar conclusion some time ago; I came to the realization that helping others was one of the most selfless things one could do with his life. I soon realized, however, that before you can help others, you really need to help yourself-- of course, they are one and the same, but we have to mark the delineation here for practical reasons. Really, by helping yourself, you are ultimately improving everything.

Wikipedia (the most holy of the holy) outlines Bhakti as "pure devotion [being] expressed in nine ways: First is satsang or association with love-intoxicated devotees. The second is to develop a taste for hearing my nectar-like stories. The third is service to the guru (...) Fourth is to sing my kirtan (communal chorus) (...) Japa or repetition of my Holy name and chanting my bhajans are the fifth expression (...) To follow scriptural injunctions always, to practice control of the senses, nobility of character and selfless service, these are expressions of the sixth mode of bhakti. Seeing me manifested everywhere in this world and worshipping my saints more than myself is the seventh mode of bhakti. To find no fault with anyone and to be contented with one's lot is the eighth mode of bhakti. Unreserved surrender with total faith in my strength is the ninth and highest stage. Shabari, anyone who practices one of these nine modes of my bhakti pleases me most and reaches me without fail."

So Bhakti is the path of devotion-- as opposed to the other two yogas, Karma and Jnana.

"As per Hinduism, Jnana means a divine wisdom or total knowledge of everybody, everything, everywhere and every time in the entire cosmos. This wisdom can only be given by God to a qualified human being.

Narottama dasa Thakura compares the paths of karma-kanda and jnana-kanda to pots of poison. Liquor and poison are in the same category. According to this verse from Srimad-Bhagavatam, a person who has heard a good deal about the path of devotional service, but who is not attached to it, who is not Krsna conscious, is like a pot of liquor. Such a person cannot be purified without at least a slight touch of devotional service.

Jnanis are those who cultivate jnana, speculative knowledge about Brahman. 'There are two kinds of jnanis. One is inclined to devotional service and the other to impersonal realization. Impersonalists generally undergo great endeavor for no tangible benefit, and therefore it is said that they are husking paddy that has no grain (sthula-tushavaghatinah). The other class of jnanis, whose jnana is mixed with bhakti, are also of two kinds -- those who are devoted to the so-called false form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and those who understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead as sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1], the actual spiritual form.'"

It sounds like some of us in this thread have touched upon the Jnana knowledge, if only for an instant-- and we're struggling to reconcile our experience.

Is this why you suggested Bhakti yoga as the answer to to my question?

malakai-- I'll check that out after breakfast

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Before we can help any others, we MUST first help ourselves. This is because if we are all situated in wrong view, no matter what we do, we will only end up in more misery. It is said that if the wrong person uses the right means, then the right means works in the wrong way. If we are trying to help others, but we are situated in ignorance, our ignorance may become troublesome and actually end up doing more harm than good. This is why we must first help ourselves. We must help ourselves first by changing our perspective from wrong view to right view. I am not going to say what the difference is, thats a whole other discussion in itself, but the point is we MUST change ourselves first and recognize the dinivity within. When we see the divinity within, we then use that as our center and detach ourselves from all other things. We should be like a spider in the center of its web. When various thoughts or actions come about, they are like flies getting caught in our web of existence. What we do is we investigate the thoughts or pursue the actions, like wrapping the fly in our web. After doing this, the spider then returns back to the center, ALWAYS. This center I submit to you, is god and the god within us. It is stated in the bhagavad-gita that if one is to completely and sincerely surrender himself undo the transcendental personality of godhead, than the devotee will be freed from all karmic reactions and entanglements. This process of bhakti works by maintaining this center throughout our everyday lives and constantly remember the lord. The best way of remembering the lord is by chanting his transcendental names through his transcendental mantra; Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare. As we maintain this center by continuously remembering the lord, our every action will purify. How can it not? How can you go back to your old selfish or childish ways if you are constantly remember the lord? You CANNOT! This will change our view from wrong to right, and it will enrich our ability to help others.

The great Sage Narada gives an explanation of Bhakti: “Bhakti,“is intense love to God. When a man gets it, he loves all, hates none; he becomes satisfied
for ever. This love cannot be reduced to any earthly benefit, Bhakti is greater than Karma, greater than Yoga, because these are intended for an object in view, while Bhakti is its own fruition, its own means, and its own end.”

Swami Vivekananda gives another explanation: "BHAKTI-YOGA is a real, genuine search after the Lord, a search beginning, continuing, and ending in Love."

In the book "Bhakti-Yoga" by Swami Vivekananda( a phenomenal read, I recommend for any sincere truth seekers) He gives an account on the relationship between Jnana, Bhakti, and Yoga, which goes as follows:

"Three things are necessary for a bird to fly—the two wings
and the tail as a rudder for steering. Jnâna (knowledge) is the
one wing, Bhakti (love) is tc the other, and Yoga is the tail
that keeps up the balance. For those who cannot pursue all
these three forms of worship together in harmony, and take
up, therefore, Bhakti alone as their way, it is necessary
always to remember that forms and ceremonials, though
absolutely necessary for the progressive soul, have no other
value than taking us on to that state in which we feel the
most intense love to God."

It is also to be understood that Jnana or knowledge, and Bhakti, or love, both converge at the exact same point. The most supreme knowledge is absolute love and the absolute love is the most supreme knowledge. Yoga is the union of the two. Bhakti is the easiest and most natural way for one to find god and the truth. This is why i suggest it for you

 

[Changed]

I will definitely start to investigate this path, and thank you for steering me towards it.

 

[ziggo]

52:00 ** you don't know how to live anymore after you give up the life manual written by the insane (material culture)... and nobody is there to guide you now: you just have to find your way, your balance, through experience.

54:00** personal will disappears... most people live solely based on that motivation---> gradually disappears (not typically all at once)--> confusion follows (lack of reference... 'why? how? what's the point?---> "the desert of life")

"WHATS LEFT? when you don't wanna' work due to reasons of personal desire?' LIMBO ZONE... "there's a gap between the blind personal will and new energy to activate your human existence."

When you lose all motivation caused by craving/desires/selfishness, the only motivation left that will cause you to be able to do ANYTHING in life and be able to ENJOY it fully is.... the motivation of your inner love. And the ability to spread this inner love in anything/everything you do.

 

[sssssssssss]

because u cant see through ur own illumination.

 

[Raw Evil]

Haven't watched that Adyashanti video yet, but I will.

I understand what you are getting at i think. "those who know dont say, and those who say dont know" but this cant be. If this were so, the buddha would never have said anything. he would have just found it all and kept it to himself. If this were so, then Lao-Tzu would never have written the tao te ching. Truth, although almost impossible to describe, still needs to be discussed, otherwise it will be forgotten about.

Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't discuss what we can do, only that the question as it is written should not be answered, as that would only strengthen justification for being in such a manner instead of addressing the issue.

In hindsight, maybe it was obvious and didn't require statement. Either way, it's out there.

____

Another perspective

This resonates very strongly within me. I've been part-way through this twice, but have never passed midnight. Both times it was a terrifying experience. I aim to one day see the dawn beyond the dark night.