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The light and the darkness

Dedbeet

Dedbeet

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Just a quickie group of thoughts I had that I kinda like, clarity-wise... anyone agree with it at all?

> Personally, I love science.Â

Science is an objective take on "subjective mind".

It's interesting, but if you look deeper you'll see children who never outgrew
their fear of the dark trying to figure out which monsters are where, while
looking for the light-switch.

It's better neither to seek a single candle, nor curse the darkness.

The willingness to remain in the dark is freedom from the need to seek the
light.

Seeking the light is a very black and despairing activity.

Peace...
 
very nice

You cant overcome a problem by setting the obstacle to the side
to overcome is to face your problem head on
to seek the light is the easy way out which produces no strengthening of the mind
to allow the darkness n discover that theres nothing to fear is adding power to your control over fear n stigmas
 
I like this. I agree completely, especially when you said "It's better neither to seek a single candle, nor curse the darkness.

The willingness to remain in the dark is freedom from the need to seek the
light."

This is equanimity, non-attachment, and accepting life as it is given to you. This is what Krishna, Buddha, and other great spiritual teachers are talking about when they are saying to let go of attachments and ego. To let go of ego and attachments, would be to acquire the willingness to remain in the dark and not need to seek the light. This freedom you speak of is the liberation from ego and its attachment to the light. We must remain the same, whether in light or in the dark. This can be done by knowing the innermost self, or Purusha.

In the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali, Patanjali says that Yoga is the cessation of the mind. In that state of mind that is set to rest, You may establish a witness. Without putting the mind to a rest, the self is identified with the modifications of the mind, not the innermost self, thus establishing a witness to the self is impossible. How can it be possible if your mind is always going from here to there? light to dark? attachment to attachment? He says the modifications of the mind are five; They are Right knowledge, Wrong Knowledge, Imagination, Memory, and sleep. He says they can either be a source of anguish or of non-anguish. He then says that the cessation to these five modifications of the mind are brought about by persistent inner effort and non attachment. Of these two, Abhyasa, the inner practice is the effort for being firmly established in oneself. It becomes firmly grounded on being continued for a long time without interruption and with reverent devotion. This is so because our minds are constantly changing, we are constantly changing. How can i establish a witness to my self, if i am constantly changing? So conscious inner effort needs to be established and to be uninterrupted, then it becomes natural. He then goes on about the second means to put the modifications of the mind to a rest which is desirelessness. And this is the reason im even getting into the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali. Patanjali then says there are to states to desirelessness. The first state of desirelessness, or Vairagya, is the cessation from self-indulgence, in the thirst for sensuous pleasures, with conscious effort. The second and last stage of Vairagya, is cessation from ALL desiring by knowing the innermost nature of Purusha, the supreme self. So, there are two stages to this equanimity, or desirelessness, or Vairagya and non attachment. The first stage is like having the seed and the second stage is having the tree, but the tree exists right in the seed the whole time. It only needed time and effort(water) to flower.

To summarize, the need for the light or the cursing of the dark are both attachments to desire. What we should do, is get rid of the "need" for anything. This is Vairagya. Vairagya has two stages but are done just the same. The first stage of Vairagya, or non attachment or desirelessness, is the cessation from self indulgence with conscious effort. The last stage is cessation from all desires by knowing the innermost nature of the supreme self. This inner knowing of the supreme self is realized by putting conscious effort into unconditioning ourselves from our attachments to our desires, but at the same time, not fighting our desires. We have desires, desires are natural so we dont drop the desire and suppress nature, what we do is drop the unnatural clinging and grasping of these desires. these attachments cause us suffering and create ego hells. As we continue to drop attachments to desires and not desires themselves, we continue to be alive and vital as complete human beings, unsuppressed and dwelling in freedom. This non attachment, whether it be to the light or to the dark, enables us to be happy no matter where we go because we realize it is all one in the same. We realize it is all one in the same because through our non attachment we learned the nature of the supreme self, which is always and forever.
 
And, practically speaking, our eyes eventually become acclimated to the dark-- vision without light, no need for the candles...
 
High Yogi said:
This non attachment, whether it be to the light or to the dark, enables us to be happy no matter where we go because we realize it is all one in the same. We realize it is all one in the same because through our non attachment we learned the nature of the supreme self, which is always and forever.
Click to expand...

Why is realizing that it is all one in the same a happy thing? Also, would it be possible for anyone to explain any of these concepts with some real-life examples? I feel like there's no point to any of these threads because anyone who understands what any if this means already knows and anyone who doesn't already know isn't really going to get anything out of it other than something really vague.

How about being tortured vs. getting a hug from your dad when you're seven? Or how about torturing someone vs. giving your sever-year-old son a hug? How are they the same? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but maybe the principles will be easiest to see in extreme cases.
 
wykydtron said:
Why is realizing that it is all one in the same a happy thing? Also, would it be possible for anyone to explain any of these concepts with some real-life examples? I feel like there's no point to any of these threads because anyone who understands what any if this means already knows and anyone who doesn't already know isn't really going to get anything out of it other than something really vague.

How about being tortured vs. getting a hug from your dad when you're seven? Or how about torturing someone vs. giving your sever-year-old son a hug? How are they the same? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but maybe the principles will be easiest to see in extreme cases.
Click to expand...

lol i dont see the point of criticizing someone over a simple topic
 
There was some minor criticism, but it was only intended to spark some elucidation or something, not as anything negative.
 
wykydtron said:
There was some minor criticism, but it was only intended to spark some elucidation or something, not as anything negative.
Click to expand...

Here's a little trip report I wrote up that somewhat touches on these issues: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=473844&highlight=substancecode_mescaline

If you don't get anything out of that, check out these relatively short videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCGqQNUD2Dw&playnext=1&list=PL7023F7F2C1CEB827

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxEZnYd7gz0&playnext=1&list=PL37EC5E065CF1A425

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQD90Las5c

Jeff Foster comes off as sort of a douche-bag, but he makes some good points (and I've actually come to enjoy his style)...
 
Last edited:
wykydtron said:
Why is realizing that it is all one in the same a happy thing? Also, would it be possible for anyone to explain any of these concepts with some real-life examples? I feel like there's no point to any of these threads because anyone who understands what any if this means already knows and anyone who doesn't already know isn't really going to get anything out of it other than something really vague.

How about being tortured vs. getting a hug from your dad when you're seven? Or how about torturing someone vs. giving your sever-year-old son a hug? How are they the same? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but maybe the principles will be easiest to see in extreme cases.
Click to expand...

Thank you, criticism appreciated :D

You ask why is realizing that all is one in the same a happy thing? Well, its very liberating because you realize that you arent the chess piece, you are the chess master. That you can control any situation no matter the circumstance because your life rides on you and only you and as long as you are fine with the changes then there is no problem. Whether it be light or dark, the only thing that matters isnt how light or how dark the situation, but instead, how you take or interpret the situation. The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitudes toward them. If you dont realize thats its all the same whether light or dark, then you will caught up in the duality of the situation and wont be able to take that step back that lets you realize its all a game. This realization is liberation.

You ask for some real life examples, when this thread started off with a real lfie example; a child being afraid of the dark and being attached to the comfort of the light. If he isnt attached to this comfort, than he may obtain a liberation because he finds himself free from the necessity of the light. This non-attachment works both ways, whether it be for the light or for the dark. for the comfort of the light, or the freedom of the dark. Face all situations and circumstances with a one sided mind and not get caught up in the duality. After pursuing this for a long enough time, it becomes a natural flow and doesnt need conscious effort. JUst like when you start driving a car, you start off with conscious effort, but after a while you become the car and its a natural flow. Same here. You start off being non attached and equal minded in all situations with conscious effort, but after a while, conscious effort is no longer needed because you become the flowing, you recognize the supreme self within.

You are also asking how an extremely positive situation compares to a completely negative situation. I am not saying to change and compare the situations, i am saying to change yourself and your comparisons to the situations. To adapt, whether it be to light or to the dark and not compare, not be attached. If we learn to not be attached to anything, then you are very accepting and not expecting, this is peace, this is happiness. Expect nothing and accept everything, and you will never be disappointed.
 
Changed said:
Here's a little trip report I wrote up that somewhat touches on these issues: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=473844&highlight=substancecode_mescaline

If you don't get anything out of that, check out these relatively short videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCGqQNUD2Dw&playnext=1&list=PL7023F7F2C1CEB827

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxEZnYd7gz0&playnext=1&list=PL37EC5E065CF1A425

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQD90Las5c

Jeff Foster comes off as sort of a douche-bag, but he makes some good points (and I've actually come to enjoy his style)...
Click to expand...

Thanks. I've actually a very similar experiences to yours. I feel like I've come close to the truth without ever fully grasping it, and so I'm left with some sort of misunderstood mutant abomination of it. I realize it's all true, I realize what it means, but I'm seeing it from the wrong perspective, and so I really don't get it at all.

Several times I've come to the conclusion that this is all there is, and seen why it must be the case, and exactly how it's all coming together, but I can never seem to remember once it's over, and it all just seems like a fairy tale, but one that I believe in.

Like you, I always vow to never return. Why did you make that vow? What made you say Buddhism was bad? Did you change your mind?

Jeff didn't really come off as a douche to me. One problem I'm having trouble with is this idea of illusion. How can there be illusion? How is the illusion any different than anything else?

It's like if I build a house, then smash it into atoms, and conclude that the house was just an illusion because the atoms are all that really ever existed. But, I would only ever conclude that when the house isn't there. It's like by looking for the truth, we destroy it, and conclude it was never there, and that reality is only this, when it's actually some strange incomprehensible combination of both that can't ever actually be seen at or it's not there. And, what's hiding it is this idea that all you are is consciousness, so everything must just be something that shows up in consciousness. For instance, anger is just something that shows up in consciousness and is there being observed. But, I believe that that is a misunderstanding. The true nature of anger is being angry. It can't be contemplated because as soon as you start thinking about it you aren't actually thinking about the real thing and you're forcing it into this false framework of observer and observed. Some choose to watch, some choose to be.

Can't the one breathe life into the story, just like one would build a house out of atoms? Does the story have to be an illusion? Why isn't story better than reality, maybe not more real, but more meaningful, or more story?
 
wykydtron said:
Like you, I always vow to never return. Why did you make that vow? What made you say Buddhism was bad? Did you change your mind?
Click to expand...

Never return to pyschedelics? I had really gotten everything I could from them. It was probably a little bit of fear, because that was the first time I took a huge dose of a psychedelic, and had a difficult, thought-loop experience. I actually ended up taking mushrooms some months later, and had a terrible, terrible trip-- I guess I should have listened to myself. Then again, I'm in a better spot right now, so I'm thinking about doing low-dose mescaline to aid in creative pursuits...

About Buddhism: it wasn't so much that Buddhism specifically was bad, but that anything defined by words was falsified to some point. It took me over a year, but I've come to the conclusion that a combination of belief systems (including Buddhism) hold bits and pieces of truths that can all add up to something worthwhile and true.


For instance, anger is just something that shows up in consciousness and is there being observed. But, I believe that that is a misunderstanding. The true nature of anger is being angry.
Click to expand...

What is anger? It's some sort of feeling that you categorize as being negative (something the untrained mind does with every phenomenon-- categorizing experience into good, bad, or neutral). When you observe the feeling of anger welling up inside of you, you should realize that it is foolish to be angry, as anger is one of the most basic egoic states-- and does nothing but harm to you and 'others.'

It can't be contemplated because as soon as you start thinking about it you aren't actually thinking about the real thing and you're forcing it into this false framework of observer and observed. Some choose to watch, some choose to be.
Click to expand...
You've accidently hit the nail on the head. What is 'the real thing' called anger? It is a feeling you create in your mind to reinforce your ego. Once you become the observer of your mind, it becomes obvious that anger is futile-- you're simply distracting yourself from the truth.

As for 'watchers' vs 'doers'... Some indeed do, but most of us do blindly-- without any regard for what is truth and what is simply smoke and mirrors. Others--maybe somebody that is new to Buddhism, or "stinking of Zen"-- will become only watchers; they may sit on this forum and argue about obscure points of spirituality for hours on end, or claim to want to hide in a monastery for eternity, and never actually go on living their lives. In the Middle, we have the conscious practitioner that keenly observes his mind, yet still goes out into the world and applies the principles detailed in, say, the Eightfold Path...

Why isn't story better than reality, maybe not more real, but more meaningful, or more story?
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQD90Las5c

fast forward to 3:50 and see what he has to say about reality vs perception of reality...
 
Totally changed, I believe every religion has a few truths and many lies added over the years. Find the truths from each one to make the biggest truth, and discover that religion is the same as science and the same as philosophy.
 
ziggo said:
Totally changed, I believe every religion has a few truths and many lies added over the years. Find the truths from each one to make the biggest truth, and discover that religion is the same as science and the same as philosophy.
Click to expand...

I think you are right on it man! truth is an experience in motion, its not something to be thought about or put into words. We try to put this experience into words and this is our dilemma. This is why so many religions have failed, but at the same time all still bear truths. Although all religions bear truths, they are usually taken the wrong way and become self limiting and restricting, rather than fullfilling and self realizing, this is so because we take religions for theory but not practice. We interpret truths from words and juggle them around to fit our agenda. This is a problem because this is only changing our egos, but not our innermost being. We are dropping egos and taking up new ones, wearing different masks every day. We need to forget about the masks and find out who it is that is wearing the masks. This is truth and this cant be experienced with any mask. Any ego or mask will never let u know how it feels to be behind the mask, because the mask is itself in the way. only when you have no masks can you know who it is that wears the masks, and this is to be experienced. This HAS this be experienced and cannot be any other way, because if it is thought and not experienced, then you are the mask and not the experiencer, the one behind the mask.
 
be contempt with the darkness, because the sun will always rise in the morning with or without you, and if not then were all dead.
 
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