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life without drugs

J

jduker09

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Joined
Feb 8, 2010
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16
i have had this idea for awhile now that if i stopped taking any sort of psychoactive chemical (including "softer" drugs such as caffeine, alcohol and marijuana) my mind and body would be able to enter into a pure, clean, and enhanced state where i could possibly achieve heightened or supranormal mental capabilities. overall, one may be able to truly achieve their "potential" this way.

so i pose the question: if you ceased taking any and all psychoactive substances and you began to lead a healthy, sober and full life (without drugs), do you think that you could one day achieve a state of bliss, euphoria (or maybe even enhanced mental abilities) that no drug could ever compare to?
 
i've thought that too.

so i quit for 2 months. surely not enough time, but bear with me. just worked out / played poker / ate healthy / read / meditate / got 9-10 hours of sleep / stayed hobbied up / etc.

did i feel pretty good? most of the time, yes. was i still bored? absolutely. did i still decide i'd rather live a life on drugs? you betcha

imo it's all about what ur tryign to accomplish. in the end it was like, why do i not want to do drugs again? because of societal pressures? meh.
 
This philosophy is very popular among people on probation I hear...but seriously...

I'm sure it's possible if you do things like cliff diving or hang gliding or skiing, or if you have lots of awesome sex, or if you make a career and really accomplish great, fulfilling, work, or if you actually meet someone in the ball park of a "soul-mate," or if you meditate and experience satori, but being totally blown out of your mind and being excited and "high" all the time isn't sustainable, and it certainly isn't necessary to live a good, happy, life.

The reasons to quit drugs are because you aren't living up to your full potential, your priorities get totally screwed up, your social skills or coping skills while not high are lacking, and to take better care of your one and only body(as far as we know). Taking drugs is admitting that your world isn't good enough as it is, and so you sacrifice a good deal to try and fix it quickly. Thinking that you need to get fucked up in order to have a good time is certainly selling yourself, and everyone around you, too short.

I don't think you get any "supranormal abilities" but you just get your regular mental faculties back again, which might seem extraordinary depending on how long you've been using.
I agree with KamMoye's last statement about "it's all about what your trying to accomplish," but it's also about what you hold as your core values, which is along the same vein. IMO
 
What makes you think this would be true? Is sobriety not the reason for inebriation? If not, what purpose did it serve. In this day and age there are several ways to change the chemicals in your brain, both domestically accepted and illegal. Sobriety given the whole, is not a state of bliss merely confined chaos. Ridding all those substances won't get you any happier, but will make you healthier (unless you're misfortunately killed). To echo the rest, what you stand to accomplish is not any mythical state of being, but you accomplish what you initially wanted, which is the reason for doing drugs in the first place, or anything in this life.
 
i love my sobriety, but there is nothing really that different between the chemicals in my body naturally and others which i add to it. just don't abuse or be controlled by any (hard or soft or whatever) and you'll be fine.
 
I think the difference between the chemicals that occur in my body and the chemicals that I add to it is the fact that the various chemicals in my body are regulated based upon actual reasons and biological processes, therefore it tends to be balanced and beneficial. It's also true that these chemicals were selected by evolution to be produced in my body, so they obviously have some purpose for being there.
The chemicals that I add have no right being there other than the fact that I know how to add a steady stream of a particular molecule that happens to feel good to my brain. And then all the problems that could come with that follows.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with drug use on a moral level. Drug addicts are essentially just the same and worthy of respect and love as Gandhi or Martin Luther King, but true happiness doesn't seem to be very common among the chemically addicted.
Moderation in all things is a different story.
 
"true happiness doesn't seem to be very common among the chemically addicted. "

____

If my goal is "substance use" then that is my God. And because it's non-sustainable, I'll fall into above category.

If I still keep my "God" as a truly worthwhile endeavor, then some progress may occur.
 
In my honest opinion, if you take away all the rewards you give yourself in a given day, week, or month, and they aren't replaced by other rewards (preferably ones that reinforce sobriety) then you're not going to associate sobriety with anything positive.

As CoffeeDrinker mentioned, if you meet your soulmate, or embark on an amazing adventure while sober, you're more likely to make positive associations, which will feed on continued abstinence. Inversely, if you have a health scare, or an overdose, or have a close family member die of substance abuse, that can also reinforce the switch.

But in my experience, simply continuing your daily grind while teetotalling, isn't normally the sort of thing that prompts people to quit using all substances. The simple problem being that life is going to seem to suck more.
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
This philosophy is very popular among people on probation I hear...but seriously...

I'm sure it's possible if you do things like cliff diving or hang gliding or skiing, or if you have lots of awesome sex, or if you make a career and really accomplish great, fulfilling, work, or if you actually meet someone in the ball park of a "soul-mate," or if you meditate and experience satori, but being totally blown out of your mind and being excited and "high" all the time isn't sustainable, and it certainly isn't necessary to live a good, happy, life.

The reasons to quit drugs are because you aren't living up to your full potential, your priorities get totally screwed up, your social skills or coping skills while not high are lacking, and to take better care of your one and only body(as far as we know). Taking drugs is admitting that your world isn't good enough as it is, and so you sacrifice a good deal to try and fix it quickly. Thinking that you need to get fucked up in order to have a good time is certainly selling yourself, and everyone around you, too short.

I don't think you get any "supranormal abilities" but you just get your regular mental faculties back again, which might seem extraordinary depending on how long you've been using.
I agree with KamMoye's last statement about "it's all about what your trying to accomplish," but it's also about what you hold as your core values, which is along the same vein. IMO
Click to expand...

I ski lol, but still use drugs, and the best thing is skiing stoned :D
 
Drug use is not the determining factor in whether or not somebody can achieve their potential. The way a person uses is much more relevant, the individual's relationship to the substances they use.

If substance use is causing you problems, then yes stopping them will help you achieve what it is you are hoping to achieve. But changing your pattern of use could very well have the same result.
 
I'm with methox23, I ski, hang glide (tandem), paraglide (tandem), skydive (tandem), bungee jump, attend amusement parks and fuck on drugs. Novelty and intensity are my bread and butter, and there's no quicker or more effective route there then psychoactives. I'm pretty content with my sober life, honestly, but drugs make the difference between nice and great.

As others have stated, to get the most out of drug use you have to moderate your intake. Saticficing (knowing when you are sufficiently satisfied) with drugs is the optimal strategy. Sobriety should never become unfamiliar. It's still possible to push your limits with drugs this way and achieve valuable new states of consciousness, but it doesn't typically happen through increasing your dose or staying high for long periods of time. It happens through preventing tolerance using moderation while continually expanding your mind during sobriety. This way when you do get high there's always new psychological territory to explore with a fresh perspective.
 
I don't know about reaching states of total bliss or euphoria, but I think the things in life that make us feel the most fulfilled rely on at least some measure of sobriety. Things like maintaining a healthy relationship, keeping a demanding job that you absolutely love, having children, reaching the heights of meditation, achieving mastery of a skill.

All these things take a lot of time and effort. In my experience, drug use is almost always used as a way to circumvent both time and effort to reach a certain level of euphoria. As with other types of euphoria, it's not sustainable and eventually takes some kind of toll on your sober life, whether it's great or small. If substance use/abuse is your God, then it's not any god I'd want to find, because the search for it will be supremely short. I've found that all shortcuts ever do is get you lost.
 
You can achieve euphoria when you ,

A. Have Goals.
B. Start accomplishing your goals

As humans were meant to have goals. Achieving somthing like quiting benzodiazapines, graduating from school, making a million dollars, Feels really good.

That's how you get natural euphoria. IMO after a long break from drugs I was doing so good, that I did some oxy and didn't get euphoria from it, because I was already euphoric. It took me 2 days to get more euphoria from it as I grew dependent, when I didn't even need it to feel good.

If you quit drugs and dont do anything but sit at home, then no your not going to feel good. But if you start doing stuff with your life, your going to feel great.
 
^^^Achieving goals is satisfying but this quickly wears off. Then we need to find another one to achieve...and life becomes about doing rather than just being.
 
a state of bliss, euphoria (or maybe even enhanced mental abilities) that no drug could ever compare to?
Click to expand...
i'm like the old record skipping back, but only when some people will invent a word that starts describing 1% of what i feel on 5-MeO-DMT or ayahuasca will i begin considering this state as reachable without external intervention on the brain


I really mean it in this way. In the future, maybe, after we learn to better use our brains we'll approch similar states of mind
but as for today we have to do with slightly enhanced euphoria and mental abilities only

i know the stories of meditation methods that bring you pretty far, but they sound like far at 30%, not far up at 90%
 
Legerity said:
^^^Achieving goals is satisfying but this quickly wears off. Then we need to find another one to achieve...and life becomes about doing rather than just being.
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eliminate all(?) exterior chatter and the simplest of things become enchanting :)
 
"i know the stories of meditation methods that bring you pretty far, but they sound like far at 30%, not far up at 90% "

they sound like 100% to me. that is what i "know" i must do for me to find happiness... for now i'm just trying to come to grips w/ how much work it will take.

HoneyRoastedPeanut said:
I don't know about reaching states of total bliss or euphoria, but I think the things in life that make us feel the most fulfilled rely on at least some measure of sobriety.
Click to expand...

i disagree -- kind of. i would say they rely on perspective, of which sobriety is apart of but not all of.


In my experience, drug use is almost always used as a way to circumvent both time and effort to reach a certain level of euphoria.
Click to expand...

maybe that euphoria is really perspective?

As with other types of euphoria, it's not sustainable
Click to expand...

perspective might not be sustainable either =P

I've found that all shortcuts ever do is get you lost.
Click to expand...

agreed, but maybe we've just sucked @ using them
 
Kam, I do think it is a matter of perspective, whether we perceive euphoria to be the end goal, or fulfillment. I draw a thick, dark line between those two. I don't think the perspective of euphoria as the goal is sustainable, because euphoria by its nature is a temporary condition, one end of a wide spectrum of feeling and thus farthest from the middle, or moderation. Fulfillment, to me, is more permanent because it is built on a strong, well-tempered base.

To use the analogy of a number line, seeking euphoria is like jumping from 0 to +9, then rebounding back to -4, and eventually getting back to -1 or 0. Fulfillment is like working slowly, decimal by decimal, from 0 to +2 or +3 and staying there. You'll still fluctuate, but your baseline is a few points higher than it used to be. Maybe that sounds stupid, but hopefully the point is clear. Over time, we operate most efficiently and appropriately at our baseline, whatever that may be, so that must be what we strive to improve.

Shortcuts are well and good for some, it's true that a few of us can take them at leisure and keep on going without breaking stride, but at some point you will have to account for the route you've taken to get where you are. You have to explain yourself, or demonstrate your wisdom in reaction to what life throws at you. Wisdom comes from experience, and when you take shortcuts, you bypass the experiences that give you the appropriate wisdom. For many, though (myself included), that is itself a wisdom that one can only find by taking said shortcuts.

Vegan, I'm curious to understand what you're talking about with the 5-MeO-DMT/ayahuasca. At my heights of psychoactive clarity, I achieved not anything close to bliss or euphoria, but more akin to a prescience. A knowledge of exactly what to do with myself, exactly which path was the optimal path for me. Of course, being of the euphoria-seeking mindset I was in at the time, I painfully ignored it. Really, psychoactives were trying to tell me to get back to sobriety, to accept my sober self as my true self.
 
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