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DXM noticeably improved my intelligence

K

klgdragon

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
10
A lengthy read, but worth it…
As a little background, I am in college and just completed finals a couple of weeks ago. I am also prescribed 20mg of adderall twice daily which I rarely take due to tolerance issues. I ended up taking slightly more than prescribed during my last two weeks of the semester. I knew my brain would be fried after finals were over but I figured I could recuperate over winter break.

In order to keep tolerance under control I took low doses of DXM (>100mg) daily which seemed to actually help a little bit. I have thoroughly searched everything I can think of for information on DXM to gather a true measure of the risks and benefits involved. I had zero problems during this experience and the combination of the two had a healthier feel than adderall alone. By itself adderall usually made me over stimulated and left me feeling burnt out and anxious when I crash. The DXM made everything much smoother and even a little better. I ended up doing very very well grade-wise.

At this point I decided to turn this short dxm maintenance therapy into a scientific experiment. I’ve read of possible neuroprotective and cognitive improvements from dxm but these are only theories. I really liked the glow the dxm gave me so I then began a 2 week experiment to try to notice any cognitive or spiritual benefits of daily dxm usage which couldn’t be TOO incredibly riskier then memantine therapy.
I quit taking any other substances and only took the dxm. It was a combo of regular syrup, delsym, and gel caps. I started at about 150 mg a day and worked my way up from there. I never wanted a full on trip, but only slight effects. My tolerance to dxm grew as expected and so I upped my dosage. 2 weeks after starting I was up to 300mg a day. I by no means felt like a junkie or felt any damaging effects commonly attributed to dxm. I think it gets a bad rap because of the people who take inhibitory doses of it. Now onto the results of this experiment…

Roughly 3 days into it I was finally able to perceive noticeable non-placebo effect. My sense of rhythm and rhyme was becoming quite pronounced. What started as an occasional line of poetry became a stream of rhymes and rhythms that were legitimately coherent. I never noticed ability previously so I assumed it had something to do with the dxm. It acted as a very very good antidepressant as well. I experienced a sense of content that I had never felt before. Not once would I describe this feeling as high. It felt extremely natural actually, unlike the emotionally blunting effects of other drugs or antidepressants.

A week into it I began to get very excited at the potential of this experiment. My brain felt creative, alive, fresh, and fast! I’ve always held the stigma that dxm damages your brain or something but this experience completely changed that view. The effects became more profound as I began to up the dosage up to a limit of 300mg a day. My thoughts took on a much deeper quality and my reality became more vibrant. As a perfectionist and a horrible worrier I usually fall victim to circular thoughts that snowballs into a great amount of stress. This anxiety was completely eliminated within a week surprisingly. Also my sociability has been much improved as I no longer stress over any type of social situation. I feel like I am much more fun to be around as a result. Lastly my vocabulary and talking ability shot way up along with a noticeable improvement in spatial thinking and intelligence.

I am not advocating anybody to try the same experiment I did, but simply want to share my experiences for I feel they are very profound and deep. I personally feel like this particular nmda antagonist is a miracle. Reduces tolerance, improves IQ, increases creativity, eliminates depression, deepens your level of thinking… I really feel as if dxm just increases the efficiency of your brain. Even after stopping the experiment I felt lasting effects.

This experiment definitely merits further exploration, but I leave this here for criticism and insight. I would love to see much more research done on the cognitive benefits of nmda antagonists. If you can handle them responsibly like me then it feels like a miracle, but all it takes is one idiot to screw things up for everybody. Thank you for those of you who read this entire thing!




CLIFFS
-daily low dose dxm seems to undeniably enhance every aspect of my cognitive functioning
-worth the read :)
 
hey there klgdragon. I'm a very experienced dxm user(over 600mg at least 1000 times). I too share the same experience of broadening the spectrum in my way of thinking. I've adapted an entire new mindset, a humbleness, if you will. I've seen things in a new light and am able to process thoughts in an entirely new way. Unfortunately, I have fried my brain a little in the process. Not my intellect; kind of hard to explain. Be careful. DXM is very fun and it is a trip, for sure; but too much is bad.. I too experience "circular" anxious thoughts and the DXM makes me think of everything else but the bad. I would love to conduct a government-funded dxm experiment to find out all of the other things it can do. There's little studies done about the, so widely used, chemical. I've found it to have TREMENDOUS pain killing properties, as well as being VERY theraputic in so many ways.. anywho, glad to see someone else know wtf I'm talking about
 
I do agree. Never done PCP but ketamine actually feels so similar in alot of ways. I love to get super messed up and listen to music in my blacklight room. I see so much cool stuff when I close my eyes and let the music take me away
 
rnr715 said:
hey there klgdragon. I'm a very experienced dxm user(over 600mg at least 1000 times). I too share the same experience of broadening the spectrum in my way of thinking. I've adapted an entire new mindset, a humbleness, if you will. I've seen things in a new light and am able to process thoughts in an entirely new way. Unfortunately, I have fried my brain a little in the process. Not my intellect; kind of hard to explain. Be careful. DXM is very fun and it is a trip, for sure; but too much is bad.. I too experience "circular" anxious thoughts and the DXM makes me think of everything else but the bad. I would love to conduct a government-funded dxm experiment to find out all of the other things it can do. There's little studies done about the, so widely used, chemical. I've found it to have TREMENDOUS pain killing properties, as well as being VERY theraputic in so many ways.. anywho, glad to see someone else know wtf I'm talking about
Click to expand...

Its comforting to know somebody else shares the same experience. I think i will try to pursue this as a way of enriching my life. I'm sorry to hear that dxm fried your brain somewhat. I feel that constant HIGH doses of it (ie 1000mg) could be slightly toxic. Its all about trying to find that sweet spot dose. with discipline, every drug can be used in a somewhat healthy manner. The benefits of dxm that I am beginning to experience are truely unbelievable.
 
Noticeable? Have you quantified this with objective IQ testing (not those 30 min online tests)? I am not trying to be a dick, but simply put, the likelihood of it quantitatively increasing IQ is, well.....

What you likely experienced some sort of "entheogenic" (never truly had one so I don't know; I heard some unearthly music on after smoking a big dose of n,n-DMT). Never had the balls to try a psychedelic doses of ibogaine though. Then again, I dislike most "psychedelics", aside from IV ketamine (not IM). This technically is rather dangerous, but I found it to be much less psychedelic than the IM route, and more "rewarding", subjectively. If you don't know what you're doing or don't have pharm. or at least BRAND name vet. grade vials,
 
I couldn't agree more. I didn't really pay attention to my body. It was trying to tell me it was too much. I would still be high from the day before, then here I go, chugging more. In moderation, I think it's a great thing. I found myself. Have fun and be safe. Never take it with yohimbe. A friend of mine has permanent brain damage because of the two. MAOI like actions from the yohimbe caused this severe reaction. It's like he suffered a stroke.
 
negrogesic said:
Noticeable? Have you quantified this with objective IQ testing (not those 30 min online tests)? I am not trying to be a dick, but simply put, the likelihood of it quantitatively increasing IQ is, well.....
Click to expand...

I understand what you are getting at. I admit that I can't make any scientific claims about this, just anectodal ones. I feel that an individuals definition of IQ is very subjective and that it could generally encompass many similar qualities. I really wish that studies could be done in regards to this though, because I definitely feel a lasting benefit from it. Its almost as if the constant nmda antagonism stimulated nerve growth that carries over even when you dont take it. I know that is a ridiculous claim and i have no proof, but just a hunch.
 
I don't, in any way, think it improves your IQ. We only use a certain percentage of our brains. I feel as if dxm allowed me to unlock certain parts I've never known how to use before. The part with my alleged "third eye." It's hard to explain, but the more "spiritual" part of my brain seems to be A LOT more active.
 
It seems you improved mental/emotional quality instead of increased intelligence (as direct result). I'm sure there are psychological studies that show a depressed and/or anxious person is less likely to perform well on an exam than one who is relaxed and/or generally calm. It's absolving some obstacles (depression, stress, anxiety, etc.) rather than simply raising efficiency of your brain functioning; which it may, but the validity of your approach and conclusions does not seem to state it.

rnr715 said:
We only use a certain percentage of our brains.
Click to expand...

One-hundred percent, I take it...
 
only a certain percentage of a person's neurons fire at any one time. That does not mean that there are areas of the brain that remain unused.

There's a House MD episode where an extremely intelligent patient takes enormous quantities of DXM in order to lower his own intelligence so that he can tolerate his wife.

!
 
NMDA-antagonists in general seem to have a lot of interesting effects with chronic low dosages. I'm not that surprised by this story, but I would suggest changing the word "intelligence" in the title to perhaps "creativity", or instead saying "altered my way of thinking positively", etc.

Ketamine is a big name here, too.
 
DXM is a tricky one for me. I am not very experienced at all, but have had some experience. DXM does remove my social anxiety to a very noticable degree, and allows me to be more disinhibited in my social interaction and thinking. That is what I have noticed on low doses, but higher doses have caused severe anxiety for me, but in a very different way. I do feel "quicker" socially, and more confident on low dose DXM, and it almost acts as a sort of fuel. I think a lot of these effects have to do with the anxiolysis DXM provides because of its dissosciative properties. It is hard to explain, but the few times I have enjoyed low dose DXM in social settings, I felt better because I WAS "detached" from my reality, and in some strange way more attatched. Tricky-tricky NMDA-antagonists are, doesn't alcohol have NMDA-antagonist properties too some extent?
 
atara said:
NMDA-antagonists in general seem to have a lot of interesting effects with chronic low dosages. I'm not that surprised by this story, but I would suggest changing the word "intelligence" in the title to perhaps "creativity", or instead saying "altered my way of thinking positively", etc.

Ketamine is a big name here, too.
Click to expand...

Yes I get what you mean about labeling it intelligence. I guess to me my intelligence is how efficient and fluid the different parts of my brain communicate with each other and process/analyze information. Creativity may be a more general fit though, but I think I read somewhere that nmda antagonists were used in some study and statistically improved the intelligence of deficient subjects. I will try to find that study.

Also, on the same note as 235360287471352662, I remember one episode of House MD where they experimented with a "ketamine reset" of House's nervous system in an attempt to fix his chronic pain. I am really interested to learn more about this sort of possibility. Does anybody know if the whole "ketamine to restart your body" thing is in any way supported by science or studies? It sounds extremely innovative.
 
Regarding the question of whether ketamine can "restart your body", you may find some useful studies among the references on the Wikipedia's page about its "experimental antidepressant use":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine#Experimental_antidepressant_use

To express my apology for how ridiculously long this post will likely be, I'm gonna label the paragraphs with topics, so readers can skip parts more easily.


My Source of Experience
-------------------------------
I was overjoyed to discover this story, because I have had an almost identical experience. (If you want to skip a summary of my story, and onto my thoughts about its effects, ignore the rest of this paragraph) My interpretation of its effects are quite different, but I believe that we've witnessed the same wonders. It's likely that I've developed a moderately high tolerance toward DXM (though, at least regarding the effects which I seek, as opposed to side-effects, I've noticed a slower development of tolerance to DXM than to any other drug I've ever repeatedly used), but I, too, found an optimal balance of pros to cons by administering 300mg daily; I divide it into three 100mg doses, taken at four-hour intervals, normally starting at 8 in the morning. I've had profoundly treatment-resistant depression for a little less than a decade (even Vyvanse has failed to touch it *), and my experimentation with trials and pauses of this regime, over the last year and a half, has appeared to be the only effective remedy. I conceded to my psychiatrist's request that I lay off of DXM, two weeks ago, in order to give Vyvanse a chance (along with a new "ADHD" diagnosis) - and I know that admission to my doctor about therapeutic use of DXM seems awkward, but that's a long story - yet my mindset seems remarkably similar to its state before I started my last bout of self-medication with DXM, about three months ago, which was the first time I touched it since July 4th (another long story).


My Cons
-----------
I was tempted (to the point where I made the same claim, from late summer of '09 until late spring of '10) to interpret the effects of chronic, low doses as increasing "intelligence"; and I still feel that this is a valid statement, given a fitting definition of the word, but most people mean something quite different when they say "intelligence." DXM seems to "lateralize" thinking, from my experience. Linear thoughts, like flawlessly following steps from start to conclusion or performing your daily tasks in the mechanical manner which society often encourages, become more challenging, but such skills as divergent thinking, compassion and introspection are remarkably enhanced. When I accompanied it with copious and continuous hydration, as well as roughly a gram of fish oil at each dose (3g/day), its cons were almost negligible, but I can't deny that it (at least when taken otherwise) had a profoundly negative impact on my episodic memory (my memory of concepts and academic material remained untouched, but recollection of personal, real-world experiences suffered horribly, whether it was remembering what I had done the day before or an inside-joke from several years ago) as well as my math skills (again, I could recall and explain ideas, even up to and inclusive of calculus proofs, but, if I'd try to demonstrate them in detail, my work was horridly riddled with arithmetic errors and other 'absent-minded' mistakes. In math, absent-mindedness has always been my only issue, and DXM managed to make it even worse.).


My Pros
----------
I not only feel that these trade-offs are entirely worth it (at least for people like myself, not necessarily everyone in general), but also that they're integral to its role as (at least from my experience) an unparalleled anti-depressant. The difficulty experienced when deliberately trying to recall episodic memory seems as though it may keep less useful memories from inadvertently arising, and bringing with them recollection of the traumatic experiences which were initially responsible for the depression. Beyond that, the challenges which one encounters, when trying to perform convergent thinking, seem as though they enable one to escape the relentlessly cyclical and degenerating patterns of negative thought responsible for perpetuating the mental illness and forestalling recovery, by instead leaving the mind with no other option in its pursuit of answers than to create original conjectures. The combination of these two effects, namely forcing the mind to conjure novel explanations for its experiences while simultaneously freeing it from brutally oppressive memories of trauma, seem as though they essentially allow chronic, low doses of DXM (and likely other NMDA antagonists) to turn one's self temporarily into a personalized master of psychoanalysis.


My Issue
------------
* This Vyvanse, at 30mg, which I'm now prescribed is in addition to a daily regime I've been taking for about a year, now, of 400mg of Bupropion, 40mg of Celexa, 40mg of Strattera, 500mg of Curcumin (a mild MAOI), 10mg of piperine, 100mg of Huperzine, 250mg of choline, as well as tones of vitamins & minerals... I've tried damn near literally everything, shy of a prescription MAOI (which every doctor I've seen refuses to give me), including ongoing distillation of my water and alkalizing of my diet, but DXM is the only thing which makes the mental effort needed to keep myself sitting/standing upright painless enough that I stay awake for more than 10 hours per day. I didn't seek psychiatric help or deviant self-medication until I was 18; from ages 12 to 18, I used about 2g/day of caffeine to get a similar effect, but with much worse side-effects. I imagine that such absurd doses during my developmental years might explain my trouble as much as the issues which initially led to my depression, but I'm still really puzzled about where else to go from here, other than returning to DXM.
 
235360287471352662 said:
There's a House MD episode where an extremely intelligent patient takes enormous quantities of DXM in order to lower his own intelligence so that he can tolerate his wife.

!
Click to expand...
Benzos would have been a better choice. And yeah, I guess everyone I know who did a lot of dxm is kinda stupid.
 
Novel Zephyr said:
Regarding the question of whether ketamine can "restart your body", you may find some useful studies among the references on the Wikipedia's page about its "experimental antidepressant use":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine#Experimental_antidepressant_use

To express my apology for how ridiculously long this post will likely be, I'm gonna label the paragraphs with topics, so readers can skip parts more easily.


My Source of Experience
-------------------------------
I was overjoyed to discover this story, because I have had an almost identical experience. (If you want to skip a summary of my story, and onto my thoughts about its effects, ignore the rest of this paragraph) My interpretation of its effects are quite different, but I believe that we've witnessed the same wonders. It's likely that I've developed a moderately high tolerance toward DXM (though, at least regarding the effects which I seek, as opposed to side-effects, I've noticed a slower development of tolerance to DXM than to any other drug I've ever repeatedly used), but I, too, found an optimal balance of pros to cons by administering 300mg daily; I divide it into three 100mg doses, taken at four-hour intervals, normally starting at 8 in the morning. I've had profoundly treatment-resistant depression for a little less than a decade (even Vyvanse has failed to touch it *), and my experimentation with trials and pauses of this regime, over the last year and a half, has appeared to be the only effective remedy. I conceded to my psychiatrist's request that I lay off of DXM, two weeks ago, in order to give Vyvanse a chance (along with a new "ADHD" diagnosis) - and I know that admission to my doctor about therapeutic use of DXM seems awkward, but that's a long story - yet my mindset seems remarkably similar to its state before I started my last bout of self-medication with DXM, about three months ago, which was the first time I touched it since July 4th (another long story).


My Cons
-----------
I was tempted (to the point where I made the same claim, from late summer of '09 until late spring of '10) to interpret the effects of chronic, low doses as increasing "intelligence"; and I still feel that this is a valid statement, given a fitting definition of the word, but most people mean something quite different when they say "intelligence." DXM seems to "lateralize" thinking, from my experience. Linear thoughts, like flawlessly following steps from start to conclusion or performing your daily tasks in the mechanical manner which society often encourages, become more challenging, but such skills as divergent thinking, compassion and introspection are remarkably enhanced. When I accompanied it with copious and continuous hydration, as well as roughly a gram of fish oil at each dose (3g/day), its cons were almost negligible, but I can't deny that it (at least when taken otherwise) had a profoundly negative impact on my episodic memory (my memory of concepts and academic material remained untouched, but recollection of personal, real-world experiences suffered horribly, whether it was remembering what I had done the day before or an inside-joke from several years ago) as well as my math skills (again, I could recall and explain ideas, even up to and inclusive of calculus proofs, but, if I'd try to demonstrate them in detail, my work was horridly riddled with arithmetic errors and other 'absent-minded' mistakes. In math, absent-mindedness has always been my only issue, and DXM managed to make it even worse.).


My Pros
----------
I not only feel that these trade-offs are entirely worth it (at least for people like myself, not necessarily everyone in general), but also that they're integral to its role as (at least from my experience) an unparalleled anti-depressant. The difficulty experienced when deliberately trying to recall episodic memory seems as though it may keep less useful memories from inadvertently arising, and bringing with them recollection of the traumatic experiences which were initially responsible for the depression. Beyond that, the challenges which one encounters, when trying to perform convergent thinking, seem as though they enable one to escape the relentlessly cyclical and degenerating patterns of negative thought responsible for perpetuating the mental illness and forestalling recovery, by instead leaving the mind with no other option in its pursuit of answers than to create original conjectures. The combination of these two effects, namely forcing the mind to conjure novel explanations for its experiences while simultaneously freeing it from brutally oppressive memories of trauma, seem as though they essentially allow chronic, low doses of DXM (and likely other NMDA antagonists) to turn one's self temporarily into a personalized master of psychoanalysis.


My Issue
------------
* This Vyvanse, at 30mg, which I'm now prescribed is in addition to a daily regime I've been taking for about a year, now, of 400mg of Bupropion, 40mg of Celexa, 40mg of Strattera, 500mg of Curcumin (a mild MAOI), 10mg of piperine, 100mg of Huperzine, 250mg of choline, as well as tones of vitamins & minerals... I've tried damn near literally everything, shy of a prescription MAOI (which every doctor I've seen refuses to give me), including ongoing distillation of my water and alkalizing of my diet, but DXM is the only thing which makes the mental effort needed to keep myself sitting/standing upright painless enough that I stay awake for more than 10 hours per day. I didn't seek psychiatric help or deviant self-medication until I was 18; from ages 12 to 18, I used about 2g/day of caffeine to get a similar effect, but with much worse side-effects. I imagine that such absurd doses during my developmental years might explain my trouble as much as the issues which initially led to my depression, but I'm still really puzzled about where else to go from here, other than returning to DXM.
Click to expand...

I find your experiences to be interesting. Reading these unexpected yet identical experiences intensified my curiosity of this topic. I have a feeling that focused NMDA antagonist research has the potential to create an entirely new method of approaching a wide variety of medical problems.

If you step back and really think about it, this approach stems from some pretty basic ideas. The human body is comprised of a vast and complex map of electrical connections. This complex biological network makes it possible for the human body to relay information with an astounding degree of accuracy and precision. It can then be further broken down into a series of conceptual processes. The stimulation of nerves result in the formation of unique electrical impulses that are instantaneously transmitted through a precise series of electrical connections. These electrically coded biological messages are relayed to very specific processors. These processors then respond by inducing a precise sequence of biological events. This intricate process eventually produces an appropriate biological response to the initial stimulus. That being said, human electrical systems fall victim to the same pitfalls that can observed in devices such as computers.

Essentially every computer will malfunction at some point in its lifetime due to random disruptions in its circuitry. Problems created in this manner can sometimes be corrected by simply restarting the system. If the system is not given a chance to restart, these malfunctions will eventually build up resulting in a highly inoperable computer. From this analogy, I am led to hypothesize that a human might reap the same benefits of a restart that a computer does.

It does not seem to be out of line then to think that a number of human ailments can be possibly corrected by a electrical restart. NMDA receptors are theorized to be responsible for the learning and adaption of memories and behaviors. Let’s say that the an amputee experiences phantom pain in their missing limb due to a degenerate NMDA receptor mediated connection. Antagonizing the NMDA receptors may rewire this connection and solve the problem.

I perceive this theory to be fairly logical and rational. I am not an expert neurologist and I’m sure there are flaws with the explanation of my theory, but hope that it is in the general vicinity of something realistic.

This is very interesting stuff!
 
fryingsquirrel said:
. . . And yeah, I guess everyone I know who did a lot of dxm is kinda stupid.
Click to expand...

who are nevertheless better able to tolerate the steady onslaught of banalities that is married life.



There is a free fulltext of a case study of cognitive deterioration induced by chronic DXM administration. Old, but indicative of clinical attitudes toward the effects of the more potent NMDA antagonists on humans:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1188627/pdf/jpn00057-0057.pdf

a postscript to the case report:

It is interesting that our patient had prolonged cognitive
effects from DM toxicity while the cases reported in the
literature showed only short-lived changes. It is known that
five to ten percent of caucasians are slow metabolizers ofDM
(Hildebrand 1989) and perhaps our patient cleared the drug
more slowly which resulted in greater accumulation and
toxicity. While this is only speculation, it is clear that DM is
not as safe a medication as was originally believed.
Click to expand...

(btw OP in the article you'll see that measuring instruments for cognition are used by the authors. The updated versions of these instruments can be found in chapter 11 of this handbook.

 
klgdragon makes a good point, I've experienced something very similar. I guess a lot of us have.

I don't believe that your vocabulary improved unless you're arguing that DXM motivated you to read novel literature or saying that while you were intoxicated you browsed literature and noticed words you did not know the meaning to prior.

The problem with this situation is that the overwhelmingly positive life experience you gained and new outlook on life is addictive and could lead to repeat said behavior with other far less forgiving chemicals with this new mindset.

I think novel zephyr is right on point. Drugs have made my quest for knowledge unquenchable and my grades have been higher because I enjoy my degree whereas before I was going through the motions to make a good living; but there is no good without evil, no happy without sad, no pleasure without pain. Everything balances itself out perfectly, drugs are no exception. There is a fine line when your overwhelming insight and jubilation at what the world could hold crosses over to psychiatric problems or burn out, and it's insidious...ie you believe you are continuing to learn new things and new ways of thought you think at the time are brilliant and meaningful but years later figure out were unproductive and/or foolish.

Good example is with LSD...I've never known a person to trip LSD once if it was a positive experience because of the inundation of new thought and stimulation of creativity. They get turned on to a new world and come out of the experience many trips later as a completely different person, for better or worse you can decide.

Not trying to scare you, I've been in your shoes but for a lot of people (myself included) anecdotal advice even if I know it is probably true I have to prove to myself and experience it for confirmation. I guess its the nature of man.

Best of luck
 
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