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Is anyone else teetering on the edge of abandoning this earthly world?

Changed

Changed

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No, this isn't a thread motivated by member DOC; a "how do I kill myself?" thread...

I've been studying philosophy and religion for upwards of six years now. This is obviously a very short period of time, but six years equates to a quarter of my life. In the past four years, I've practiced a Buddhist life-style of abstinence, modesty, and downright simplicity. I've meditated daily and can attest to the amazingly beneficial aspects of Eastern religion/philosophy's way of life.

On the other hand, I've wrestled, frequently, with the idea of giving up aspirations for a normal life--a modest income, "something to show for life," or relative comfort in old age. These notions of success or security--whatever they may be--have prevented me from going "all the way": giving up everything I own, giving up concerns for debt, income, family, or future relationships. Something deep inside of me (perhaps something that has been deeply implanted by material culture) prevents me from giving everything up and following the life of a religious ascetic (so to say)...


I'm just wondering if anybody else feels this way, or has felt this way in the past. If you haven't ever felt this way at all, perhaps you could weigh in with your opinion about the matter. Any discussion should be fruitful...
 
My 69yo uncle is a monk. He raises sheep in rural NY; sometimes bald eagles or wolves come and take the baby sheep for food :( He shows up at all the family functions wearing a habit and sandals with wool socks.

The idea of living in such a way is fantastically appealing to me. Not having to worry or fret for material possessions, spending one's time simply meditating and reflecting on gratitude for life and the inherent beauty of Earth and her creations. Less drama, more contentedness. I am very drawn to the idea of routine and constants in life, which are altogether quite fleeting in modernity.

Then I consider the prospect of sex :D Or no sex :eek:

I plan on trying to find a happy medium.
 
Why does one have to tune off from Maya?
Can't one become a master of it, attain the skill of playing it like a musical instrument?
I heard someone quote a guru once, he was responding to a request from a young man who was searching for nirvana. The guru told him he wouldn't like Nirvana yet, its too cold and spacious.
I'm referring to the kind of philosophy which models life after a mirror: One reflects all, but at the same time is detached.
What I'm trying to get at here is, in order to attain peace of mind, does one really have to shut off from material positions? Cant one just use them rightly?
 
Quantum Perception said:
Why does one have to tune off from Maya?
Can't one become a master of it, attain the skill of playing it like a musical instrument?
I heard someone quote a guru once, he was responding to a request from a young man who was searching for nirvana. The guru told him he wouldn't like Nirvana yet, its too cold and spacious.
I'm referring to the kind of philosophy which models life after a mirror: One reflects all, but at the same time is detached.
What I'm trying to get at here is, in order to attain peace of mind, does one really have to shut off from material positions? Cant one just use them rightly?
Click to expand...
Of course one can. Here's one example of someone who can do that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuaOye9VyI & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBFDAbgoaoI. Not that there's anything special about him.
But to 'reach nirvana' or this 'pure state of being' (however one wants to call it), it takes a lot of practice. And giving up everything material can be one very helpful step on this journey.
I'm not sure about the coldness, tho. No attachment does not necessarily mean coldness. I think it's actually the other way around. Seeing reality from a pure mind gives rise to very many positive emotions (joy, compassion, kindness and love for all beings).
 
^ This.

What is it you are trying to do? What is the goal here? Is it happiness that you're after? Or does living the life of a monk have some value in itself beyond increasing your happiness? I think it would be a good idea for you to figure these types of questions out. The answers will help you figure out what you should do.

Assuming the goal is happiness...

I think it's best not to take anything to extremes... especially religious and philosophical teachings.

Maybe your instincts are right?

To be honest, some of this sounds like a really bad idea to me. The thing stopping you from doing all this is probably common sense. It's not some mental block created by living in a consumerist culture... it's the "bad idea recognition" part of your brain which is stopping you.

You're about to start getting diminishing returns from the whole thing. I think that is probably the reason why you are hesitating.

I think Buddhism teaches something like "desire leads to unhappiness". That definitely has a lot of truth to it. But there are some things that humans pretty much NEED to be happy. Ignoring the desire for those things can make you less happy. Being in poverty all your life does not lead to happiness. Being lonely all the time does not lead to happiness.

If the religious teachings are telling you the opposite, telling you things that don't seem to make a lot of sense... then I would start being a bit more skeptical about those teachings. I'd start ignoring the things that didn't pass the smell test...

I'm sure that Buddhist ideas definitely can improve your life. I certainly would be happier if I followed them a bit closer. But they might be true up to a certain point, and less true after that. It depends on how close you follow them I think.

Think of Christianity. Following it loosely can make you more happy, give you strength to deal with problems, and things like that. But if you follow it too closely, it can end up causing problems for you, and making you less happy in the end. Just think about how much they are losing by not using psychedelics, and you'll see what I'm talking about. They could be a very useful tool for increasing their relationship with god, but a strict interpretation prevents that from happening.



Maybe you could try it for a while, and see what makes you happier? Try the real monk life for a while. Then try to have a mix of that and normal life. See which works best?
 
The Roman Catholic way of discussing such a thing would be to talk about vocation or calling (same word but one is Latin-ish). (I know your thing isn't RC, I just think vocation is a useful model) In a way different discussion about being an artist someone told me that an artist is someone who could not possibly avoid doing art even by their best effort. I think if you are called to a monastic life you will end up there.

I agree with the others who say you can mix a temporal life and a spiritual life but some people can not help but commit to a more dedicated life that involves some seclusion from the temporal world. A lot of us have a vocation of trying out many different modes of living before we find the right one. I think my vocation is honestly to flit from one thing to another, even though that is very unappealing to many people.

Taking the plunge and risking monetary and social standing might be involved in starting a business or many other ventures. I don't regard living in spiritual seclusion a less worthy endeavor than many other things that people risk capitol and standing for. Seems much more worthy than casino gambling and get rich quick schemes that many folks have lost wealth and opportunity to. Just know what you are giving up and know that you are willing to do so without regrets or temper your endeavor to minimize risks if you think it might cause deep regret.

If you can help but to be a monk than it is inevitable you will be a monk. Otherwise giving it a trial will likely be a good thing. No one can really say what they will most regret ten years from now but trying to feel out that question can be a little useful sometimes.
 
Funny, I have a friend --my psychonautical partner at one time-- that has found his 'vocation' and became a RC monk in Spain-- he is only 21 years old.

These responses are worth considering...

But my response for now: I have always had trouble balancing the two: the material and the spiritual. I just can't see how being a 'householder' can coexist with being a Buddhist. To me, these things are mutually exclusive.

Oh well, I'm just lost again!
 
The buddha said to find the middle way in all things, the middle way will always lead you to nirvana. of course, what is the middle way other than your own personal perfect balance of both sides, the materialist and the spiritual? find what you think is most fair between the two poles and there you will find peace.
 
Alan Watts has alot to say about the paradox of finding nirvana become a desire in-of-it-self. That is why I like zen which is just to be, no reaching, just be...
Thanks to the Taoist influence.
Just be, be happy, no need to dissolve all of your affairs in this world, just be happy and don't take things so seriously. Be spontaneous!
 
I have thoughts like this often.

For me, however, I think these thoughts are rooted in insecurity and fear. Such a lifestyle means not having to deal with a lot of the worries, fears, and difficulties of everyday life--I find myself wishing for an ascetic lifestyle when these issues become particularly pressing or abrasive. It promises a life where I don't have to deal with pretty much anything I don't want to. This seems like the wrong reason for such an undertaking.

I obviously can't say whether or not that's true of you, but maybe examine your motivations to see what exactly is making you want to do this. IMO, the monastic life is to an extent intrinsically selfish...we should strive toward the ideal of the bodhisattva--remaining in the world to help alleviate the suffering of others, rather than seeking to sever ourselves from it.
 
i think for ME i would have to give up material possessions for no other reason than that they are one huge distraction.

i intellectually know it doesn't make me happy, but that still doesn't mean i dont pursue it.

i have thought about this topic a lot, and quit my job over it. i resigned from ESPN and was debating withdrawing all my poker money and buy a one-way ticket out of this country.

and i still plan to do that one day in the future, assuming i live that long.

i answered the question for myself: attain my definition of "success," see if i like it, and go from there. along the way don't get distracted (like have a kid) and pick up as many skills along the way.
 
I say go for it, if you want it. People saying you should balance the two, but it seems as though you're willing to reject everything to do the other. As long as you have a plan, and four back ups; jump in. The way I see it, if you strive for balance between these two different wholes you'll more likely to fall back on one life style (lets be honest, it'd be modest comfort and a salary). As Kam said, define 'success' for yourself.
 
You're about to start getting diminishing returns from the whole thing. I think that is probably the reason why you are hesitating.
Click to expand...
i've always wondered... what is the feasibility of going to asia and becoming one of those monks that lives off the food and things others give them by charity?
 
You don't need to go to Asia to become a monk. There are several monasteries in the US (and Europe, etc...) for all types of Buddhists (and other religions).
 
Sounds like you're framing the question in terms of a lifelong commitment. If you're drawn to the monastic lifestyle, why not just try it out and see what it does for you? You may find yourself turning to some other path enriched by the experience.
 
Follow your intuition.

Don't live your life in search of what you think is going to reward and enrich your life, but instead seek what you know to be real. The primal core of your being is voicing a clear message, but you only hear it muffled by the chatter of your wandering conscious intellect -- let this message inform your consciousness, and let your intellect reflect and further this message rather than fight it. You have to ask yourself, "what life will lead me to a fundamental sense of self-respect and fulfillment?"

All of your knowledge of spiritual or religious practice should only then be chosen, if and when and where appropriate, to serve as a means of achieving this essential and complete fulfillment.


Here's something key:

Even if you wanted to somehow fight your primal, instinctual self, by nature you are too weak to really win the battle, and you'd be forever stuck in a sour compromise between two arguing parts of your self. You'd never be able to go "all the way". You need to let your entire being work in harmony.

Boiled down to a single sentence: your life has to feel good, because that's the way humanity works. And that's relieving and inspiring in itself!




These are the strong messages I've gotten in my life experience thus far.
 
Changed said:
Funny, I have a friend --my psychonautical partner at one time-- that has found his 'vocation' and became a RC monk in Spain-- he is only 21 years old.

These responses are worth considering...

But my response for now: I have always had trouble balancing the two: the material and the spiritual. I just can't see how being a 'householder' can coexist with being a Buddhist. To me, these things are mutually exclusive.

Oh well, I'm just lost again!
Click to expand...

What the others in this thread mean is the connection between our spirituality as a whole and the notion of a society to feel comfortable. I hear your desire to stay with society for protection, but sometimes, risks need to be taken to obtain your version of freedom.

I am still wondering myself where each one of us stands in this world. Personally, leaning more toward a simply, hearty and well-lived lifestyle is more appealing than keeping these material possessions any longer. I'm about to disappoint at least one person soon.

What say you? Could we meet in the middle and work out a living condition? It's always nicer to have another mind to work through difficult times with together. No house needed. :)
 
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