What is the beauty in death?

[qwe]

what happens on the inside may be considered beautiful even as the body shits itself

 

[~_Hiss_~]

i'm watching the documentary now, well listening to it... the bridge.

i don't see much beauty because i see it as the crushing out of consciousness through physical forces (or chemical if talking about suicide in general)... but I realize that it may be me someday. I may decide i want to control when I die, due to unavoidable suffering which is terminal.

the old man jumping was most sad to me. he didn't find it worth living anymore, and he ended his life with a leap, falling down the curve of spacetime we call gravity...

mental pain is a horrible thing, and medicine is empty of good solutions. antidepressants don't work, at least for me. hopefully someday they come out with a brain implant which mimics pleasure feelings. it'd be nice if consciousness can attach to devices like this in our lifetime, which not only induces good feeling, but "is" good feeling. like extra neurons.

i am suffering from a depression episode at this moment, and seeing the documentary is helping in a way, letting me know that there are people who sadly were much worse off and actually had the courage to end it all. and yes i think it does take courage, and only in some cases its cowardly in addition.

 

[~_Hiss_~]

Um no, if anything, it is the lack of drugs.

And yes, that IS my philosophy - not only do I stick to it, but I live by it. The ONLY purpose there is to life is to mitigate others's suffering however possible.

The way I see it, existence is, and always has been, overrated.

I agree its a bit overrated at times, but in my better moods, I see the beauty of being a part of this universe. Our molecules coming from supernova and burned out suns. There is way too much suffering in the world though.

If that is what you feel is your cause, a tough but noble one, it seems to mean that you aren't happy with your life. i think you are more valuable and worth your own attention. i sometimes feel like i'm pointless except for taking care of my dog. not trying to directly relate; i don't know how you feel. but i'd put yourself first so you can take care of others.

I know that psychedelics could help people in a clinical situation who are suicidal, in the right amounts, at least temporarily (but beyond action of the drug).

I think that at death, time could be said to go infinitely fast, and nothingness like we've never experienced. we wouldn't experience it if death is final, it'd be no time at all we'd spend dead. maybe i'm wrong and we merge with the universe or another life in someway, but I don't want to live eternally anyways, sounds a bit too long.

in a way i feel like death will be the ultimate freedom. i know that is a quote, but its become mine too.

 

[ex-meth-ator]

frredom..

freedom freom your self , your worst enemy
freedom from the system
freedom from responsibilities
from problems
headaches
pain
me....
me..
me...
me..
ahhhhhhhh

 

[qwe]

freedom freom your self , your worst enemy
freedom from the system
freedom from responsibilities
from problems
headaches
pain
me....
me..
me...
me..
ahhhhhhhh

i assume that, if we live on after death, that means we also lived on before life.

which means that death, or at least, our previous death, doesn't lead to freedom...

 

[TheAppleCore]

Which begs the question... why is survival so important?

I think it's far overrated in popular culture. However I also think that the importance of anesthetizing life from pain is overrated (sorry, Jamshyd ). But personally, I do think it's important to protect life on earth to some degree, including humanity.

You could look at the incorporation of life into lifeless spacetime/matter/energy as either a significant corruption, a neutral rearrangement of matter (the boring choice ), or a significant rectification.

My own life experiences happened to have pointed me toward the latter (perhaps the will to survive being genetically ingrained in human psychology almost ubiquitously has a certain influence ). Although I can definitely entertain the first possibility.

 

[Jamshyd]

a neutral rearrangement of matter (the boring choice )

I don't see that as boring one bit though .

In fact, I see it as infinitely beautiful.

It seems to be the empirical, (theoretically) measurable, scientific realization of the Dharmic idea of Nibbhana, IMO.

Keep in mind that I personally see plants as being more noble than animals (of which the lowest is Human), and minerals as more noble than plants as far as Selfless-Love goes.

I realize that my static, elemental utopia must be excruciatingly boring for many people .

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ I can see how one can find a certain beauty in it -- I think that the only reason I described it as "boring" was that it seems to steal humanity of a noble goal. We like to busy ourselves with attempts to better the world, physically, in some way. If any physical alteration is ultimately neutral, then how do we discern right from wrong?

 

[helium-4]

I don't see that as boring one bit though .

In fact, I see it as infinitely beautiful.

It seems to be the empirical, (theoretically) measurable, scientific realization of the Dharmic idea of Nibbhana, IMO.

Keep in mind that I personally see plants as being more noble than animals (of which the lowest is Human), and minerals as more noble than plants as far as Selfless-Love goes.

I realize that my static, elemental utopia must be excruciatingly boring for many people .

What beautiful utopia that is. I agree.

 

[helium-4]

^ I can see how one can find a certain beauty in it -- I think that the only reason I described it as "boring" was that it seems to steal humanity of a noble goal. We like to busy ourselves with attempts to better the world, physically, in some way. If any physical alteration is ultimately neutral, then how do we discern right from wrong?

What is it with the obsession people have with being of more importance? (not singling you out) Or the need for there to be something absolute in this world. The universe doesn't stop to wait for the insignificant concepts we create to satisfy our need to have the answer. I find such behavior to take the beauty out of the choas, that is our universe.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ I can see how one can find a certain beauty in it -- I think that the only reason I described it as "boring" was that it seems to steal humanity of a noble goal. We like to busy ourselves with attempts to better the world, physically, in some way. If any physical alteration is ultimately neutral, then how do we discern right from wrong?

My personal opinion is that humans striving to "fix" the world are (in the grand scheme of things) humanity attempting to fix the errors that humanity created for humanity.

In the miniscule scheme of things (eg. a millennium) however, I can see the practicality and even nobility in attempting to make the world a better place and I am right there with you about making it one's passion in life.

If I may ask (I am curious), what is it that drives you to make the world better, or describe such a mission as being noble?

---

At the end though, to me the fact remains that all these problems we're trying to fix could have not been created in the first place had humanity been in stasis and inaction.

Many people believe that consciousness is a sort of gift that puts humanity ahead of the game, whereas I personally see consciousness as an obstacle to overcome (or at best a tool to be used and discarded, rather than to be venerated), and humanity is the most lagging of all beings when it comes to that. Humanity is the child that invents its own world and pretends to be king in it, imagining adults to be inferior because they do not involve themselves in its drama.

I suppose at this point it is very obvious that I am heavily influenced in equal parts by Gnosticism and Buddhism. I've been digging recently and am rather baffled that these two streams of thought never really merged as I see they ought to... the closest to this may be Manichaeanism, which is a bit too extreme...

What beautiful utopia that is. I agree.

Thank you . I am glad we can agree on something at last.

 

[TheAppleCore]

What is it with the obsession people have with being of more importance? (not singling you out) Or the need for there to be something absolute in this world. The universe doesn't stop to wait for the insignificant concepts we create to satisfy our need to have the answer. I find such behavior to take the beauty out of the choas, that is our universe.

Because you cannot base your goals and actions on a conceptual model of the universe that does not give human beings any absolute importance. It just seems like a philosophical dead end, in all practicality. There has to be some mechanism by which a man compares the outcomes of various possibles paths of action, and judges one to be the most valuable in some way, and makes a decision.

If my understanding of reality is only pure chaos, and my actions theoretically play no important role, then why should I bother to learn an instrument? Why should I go to school? Why should I care for others? Why should I care for myself?

 

[TheAppleCore]

At the end though, to me the fact remains that all these problems we're trying to fix could have not been created in the first place had humanity been in stasis and inaction.

Many people believe that consciousness is a sort of gift that puts humanity ahead of the game, whereas I personally see consciousness as an obstacle to overcome (or at best a tool to be used and discarded, rather than to be venerated), and humanity is the most lagging of all beings when it comes to that. Humanity is the child that invents its own world and pretends to be king in it, imagining adults to be inferior because they do not involve themselves in its drama.

Interesting. So, ideally, humanity should have remained in its most primitive and animalistic state, and in doing so avoiding dependance on our current and more "contrived" civilization?


What drives me to make the world better? I suppose it's the faith that I have in the value of what I seek -- which are certain states of consciousness, that I hope to gift to as many people as I can by means of artistic creativity. I don't think that I'm capable of truly understanding reality, but I think that I was given a feeble intuitive grasp by my creator...

 

[L2R]

i've just started a new phi unit called practical ethics and it opens up on the interesting topics of "is death a harm?" and "can one harm the dead?". interesting stuff, some theorise that an objective harm may still apply if you do not, for instance, fulfill a dying wish or promise or debt to a dead person even though they won't subjectively experience it.

dunno if it is on topic, just sharing

 

[helium-4]

Because you cannot base your goals and actions on a conceptual model of the universe that does not give human beings any absolute importance. It just seems like a philosophical dead end, in all practicality. There has to be some mechanism by which a man compares the outcomes of various possibles paths of action, and judges one to be the most valuable in some way, and makes a decision.

If my understanding of reality is only pure chaos, and my actions theoretically play no important role, then why should I bother to learn an instrument? Why should I go to school? Why should I care for others? Why should I care for myself?

Why is the universe relevant to your daily life? What bugs me usually every day is the fact that I'm not sure what I'm going to eat. Thats a far cry from needing some sort of ego-boost to make the world seem relevant. I base the needs and desires for my life on the environmental interactions that take place. The outcomes that I scroll over in my head are created from a life time of responding to variables, for better or for worse (Anxiety disorders for example, because, not all responses are rational).

I've never really understood the idea that life just would fall apart because they realize we are just a random blip in the universe, which is nothing more than a small amount of molecules who just so happen to interact with one another out of pure chance.

So yeah, only one set of events happen at a time. All of it just occurrences that follow a set of stimuli, which of course have its own source of stimuli. Yeah, our brains can read into a set of stimuli at a more complex level, but is it not still the single set of events that took place? Whether or not multiple choices could be seen, only one choice could be made. Its water trickling down.

Why should you learn an instrument? Because what else do you plan to do while your alive. As living creatures we have a predisposition to have the desire to survive, which makes sense right? We do have complex emotions and not to mention thought, so I really couldn't imagine spending my time while alive sulking. Life is already complicated enough with out me adding silly fears and disappointments.

 

[moonlitsky]

People find beauty in death because Earth has lost it's own beauty. And people like to think that the dead are in a better place away from these earthly problems.

 

[Jabberwocky]

*bump* this thread bugged me a lot more than most wich is why I think I'm going to postpone its end of days.

 

[thomas2laylum]

a final relief from all the pain and horrors of a backwards world

?

people often say death is "sad" and "a shame" and shit, but i don't really feel this, i see it more as a portal to somewhere else

it is inevitable

 

[rangrz]

I dunno if it has much beauty...go bag up a teenage girl who jumped in front of a subway or your buddy who was thrown 45 feet out of the turret on an armoured vehicle after it hit a large IED and is now absent 2 limbs and covered in full penetration burns, then come back and tell me its beautiful.

Its really not.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Ever had a friend demolish herself in front of a train and only her teeth remained?
That was ugly.

Ever get the breath strangled out of you by your own organs to the point of shitting your pants in front of your family?
That was ugly.

Death by asthma attack is pretty scary, and it's happened to me twice in my 21 years (total heart stoppage), with countless close calls. Nothing beautiful about that.

We're all going to die, we're all going to have ugly rotten corpses, or else get turned into ash. Nothing beautiful about any of it.
I'm with rangrz 100% and he has a world of perspective that I'm sure none of you "death iz purrty" crowd can even fathom.