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12 Step Breakdown - Step One

^yup

i finished writing on my first step about 3 weeks ago. and i must admit, it was awesome. i knew my life was very unmanageable. 6 arrests from age 19 -21. and the powerless thing is lke this for me: once i start i might be able to control it the ONE time but more than likely it will get out of hand and i wont stop untill i get really fucked up. and once i use i will obsess over it for months and have to fight the all consuming urges. its just easier to keep the door closed.

the thing that shocked me the most was how self centered i was. i thought i was a decent guy but i was just the opposite. all i cared about was getting the next one and i didnt care who i hurt along the way. it disgusts me.

the obsession to use has been lifted. i dont need drugs anymore. i can be social w/o them and enjoy life w/o them. theres no point anymore, and its a waste of money on top of all that.
 
Awesome that you guys are doing so well using NA.

For the record, I don't have really have any problem with AA/NA... my views have not necessarily changed but fuck if I can fault anyone for doing what works for them. I don't feel as negatively towards the whole concept anymore, I suppose. I'm off sub maintenance and had been using like 30-60mg oxy once a week for about 7-8mo (after I got off sub), which honestly may sound good but I still obsessed a lot about it, and it still pretty much ran my life. It's only been about 20 days though altogether since I used. I've got to get on with my life already.

Anyway, it's odd reading these posts I wrote. Things change, I guess ;)

Keep it up with the clean times :)
 
IMO there is an inherent problem with 12 steps when it is designed to create an idea of lifelong powerlessness over a substance when the idividual does not remain in a constant state. Then it imposes that the only cure is to essentially become addicted to the 12 steps -- Bill W. should have learned to teach users discipline and MODERATION and "empower" them, not cause them to give up and take whatever power they had.
 
The 12-steps and AA/NA...my favorite topic of discussion :)

I think you make an important distinction with using "a seemingly powerless manner". In the middle of heavy substance use, we seem to be powerless. We don't see another choice, we don't think we can face whatever pain we will have to experience in order to not get high or drink again. I can much more agree with the idea of a perceived powerlessness.

Drink...pass out...hangover...drink...pass out...hangover....drink...pass out hangover. Somewhere in this chain a person in AA has made the decision to stop. At that point a person is taking their power of choice back and actively changing their behavior. If a person were truly powerless then this would not be possible and the cycle would continue forever.

So I do not think the problem is that we are powerless, but that we THINK we are powerless over our choices. Which is why I don't like this step in the first place, because it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy if we are told over and over again that we do not have the ability to make different choices than we are currently making. It's easier to say that we simply don't have control over something, rather than exploring the underlying reasons why we continue to make decisions that are harmful for ourselves.

But I also acknowledge the benefit of surrender in our life. We cannot control everything that happens to us, we can't avoid unpleasant experiences, we can't live without feeling some emotional pain. To continue to struggle against things we can't change is pointless.

I just think the steps apply the principle of powerlessness in the wrong place. Yes we are powerless over our past, the things people have done to us, our shitty families. We can't change that. But right now, in this moment, we have the choice of how to act based on our current set of circumstances. And this includes our substance use. Taking this power of choice away, in my mind, can have negative repercussions. Maybe not for everybody, but I'm speaking for myself.

Telling a person that he can't stop drinking after alcohol enters his body makes it that much more likely that he won't be able to.
 
Legerity said:
exploring the underlying reasons why we continue to make decisions that are harmful for ourselves.
Click to expand...

Word. This is what is most effective. Problem is, everyone out there uses for a different reason. It is much easier for The State Body Politic to just say that these pathetic wretches are "powerless" and lump 'em all together in one big, stinky smelly package and try to treat 'em -- the goal is not to get them to think -- but rather just to submit.
 
lol^

step one does not say we are powerless over (drugs)

it says : we admitted that we were powerless over our addiction and our lives had become unmanageable.

so if you think u can control ( use succesfully)/ manage your life, its simple : DONT GO!!!

about getting the paper signed, i go to a bunch of groups that dont allow papers to be signed and i whole hearted believe in this . it goes against traditions.


im going to a meeting now so ill get back to this later. :)
 
I always wonder why people would want to pick holes in something that helps so many people. If you don't like it or can't relate to it, don't go, simple.
 
Because only though constant analysis can we make something better. If you're not interested in helping more people than you already claim to be, you're doing a disservice to your cause.
 
calmAnimal said:
lol^

step one does not say we are powerless over (drugs)

it says : we admitted that we were powerless over our addiction and our lives had become unmanageable.

so if you think u can control ( use succesfully)/ manage your life, its simple : DONT GO!!!

about getting the paper signed, i go to a bunch of groups that dont allow papers to be signed and i whole hearted believe in this . it goes against traditions.


im going to a meeting now so ill get back to this later. :)
Click to expand...

I believe you are referring to the 12 steps of NA. The 12 steps of AA do in fact refer to powerless over alcohol specifically. CA does the same.
 
ok well im talking about the one that i go too. if u dont like the fellowship your going to and dont think it can help, go to a different one.

i dont like substance specific programs because i didnt just like one substance. my drug of choice truly was MORE. more of anything that gives me instant gratification no matter the consequences later on. does that make sense?

Originally Posted by Legerity
exploring the underlying reasons why we continue to make decisions that are harmful for ourselves.
Click to expand...
Word. This is what is most effective. Problem is, everyone out there uses for a different reason. It is much easier for The State Body Politic to just say that these pathetic wretches are "powerless" and lump 'em all together in one big, stinky smelly package and try to treat 'em -- the goal is not to get them to think -- but rather just to submit.
Click to expand...

umm we are talking about the first step. and if u actually ever did a first step you would see that it is very specific towards your own personal situation. but you choose to sit with your fingers in your ears and just say no no no im different. and dont even wanna give it a shot.

like samael said: i constantly used and did enough research and analysis to see that i cannot use succesfully. so i want to try a new way. i am going to go at it as hard as i went at trying to get fucked up.

i personally only want for myself to get better. its selfish but if im the only one who is recovering from addiction with NA, then im cool with it. i have no problem sharing with how i am recovering. but i dont appreciate you telling me that i can be doing it better with your way.


Mymindisgoo: every meeting is different but in this area we usually carry a good message. there is alot of recovery in my area. Union county NJ
 
Went to my first NA meeting last night. There was a speaker who talked about his use and shit at first then he let people raise there hands and tell their stories or problems they're having now or how they're dealing with recovery. I could relate to a lot of it and am hoping to gain some knowledge from listening. At the end they gathered around in a circle and put arms around every one and said some chant I didnt know...after that random people came up and hugged me since they noticed I was new and I told them it was my first meeting I've been too. They gave me the NA handbook with meeting locations and the 12 steps. Still not sure how the whole 12 step thing works, guess I'll ask at the meeting Im going to tonight. Other than that, about 8 people wrote down their phone numbers in the book, are they sponsors? I don't blieve in god, but think being around clean people may help me anyway. Im just not sure how these meetings are suppose to keep you clean though? What do you guys get out of being at a meeting?
 
calmAnimal said:
ok well im talking about the one that i go too. if u dont like the fellowship your going to and dont think it can help, go to a different one.

i dont like substance specific programs because i didnt just like one substance. my drug of choice truly was MORE. more of anything that gives me instant gratification no matter the consequences later on. does that make sense?



umm we are talking about the first step. and if u actually ever did a first step you would see that it is very specific towards your own personal situation. but you choose to sit with your fingers in your ears and just say no no no im different. and dont even wanna give it a shot.

like samael said: i constantly used and did enough research and analysis to see that i cannot use succesfully. so i want to try a new way. i am going to go at it as hard as i went at trying to get fucked up.

i personally only want for myself to get better. its selfish but if im the only one who is recovering from addiction with NA, then im cool with it. i have no problem sharing with how i am recovering. but i dont appreciate you telling me that i can be doing it better with your way.


Mymindisgoo: every meeting is different but in this area we usually carry a good message. there is alot of recovery in my area. Union county NJ
Click to expand...


It's great if you have found something that works for you. I would never try to discourage somebody from 12-step meetings if they feel they are benefiting from it, just because I personally disagree with the philosophy. We are all different and can find an individual approach that works.

And I agree with you about NA, when I was going to meetings I much preferred the idea of dealing with "addiction" in general rather than a specific substance.
 
chompy said:
IMO there is only 3 steps.

1. Identify the problem
2. Create a plan to quit
3. Stick with solution/quitting.

that's it.
Click to expand...

if only it were that easy..

Georgie25 said:
Went to my first NA meeting last night. There was a speaker who talked about his use and shit at first then he let people raise there hands and tell their stories or problems they're having now or how they're dealing with recovery. I could relate to a lot of it and am hoping to gain some knowledge from listening. At the end they gathered around in a circle and put arms around every one and said some chant I didnt know...after that random people came up and hugged me since they noticed I was new and I told them it was my first meeting I've been too. They gave me the NA handbook with meeting locations and the 12 steps. Still not sure how the whole 12 step thing works, guess I'll ask at the meeting Im going to tonight. Other than that, about 8 people wrote down their phone numbers in the book, are they sponsors? I don't blieve in god, but think being around clean people may help me anyway. Im just not sure how these meetings are suppose to keep you clean though? What do you guys get out of being at a meeting?
Click to expand...

some chant, lol. normally at meetings at the end they recite the 'serenity prayer,' "god, grant me/us the serenity to accept the things i/we cannot change, the courage to change the things i/we can, and the wisdom to know the difference," or the lords prayer, which i don't know because i'm jewish and N/AA is supposed to be non-denominational.

those people aren't yer sponsors, they're just people yu can call if you need a ride, or to talk to someone whenever need be. they wouldn't give yu their numbers if they didn't want to hear from yu. a sponsor is one person (someone of the same sex as you) who has worked the steps (or the majority of them) and has a good amount of clean time (at least a year or two i figure).

the program isn't about god per-se. when they say god, they refer to their higher power, what ever they want to believe in (nature, jesus, a rock, a coffee pot, na as a whole, the group as a whole, etc.) i personally believe in a higher power, something out there thats a force behind everything else. or it could just mean "good orderly direction."

one of the points of n/aa is the "therapeutic value of one addict/alcoholic helping another." someone who's not an addict doesn't understand what we go through, how ever someone who has been where we have can understand us a lot better. the meeting can help you stay clean by 1) giving you sober people to surround yerself with inside and outside meetings, 2) giving you an hour + of clean time and not using during the day, 3) hearing other stories that you can relate to and learning from others mistakes.

i enjoy going to meetings because it really helps with the urge to use, and realize that i'm not alone. hope that all helped!
 
^
if it was so easy,, the cartels, cooks, and breweries would be out of business, or a pint of Guinness would be near ~15.95 per!

there are many, infinite ideas out there, especially when it comes to drug use.
being privy to hear some one who struggled for most true life, and finally got away from that life, may be worth listening to, and a massive heads up on how to spare a trail of destruction.
also, its as valuable to listen/hear someone who has been trying to fight their addiction most their life,,, and it isnt working.

in either scenario, there is a lot to learn, at the cost of years of struggle on their part, and ones willingness to sit, listen, and learn for an hour or so.


i dont do the AA thing, but did off and on through out my teens, and yeah i learned a lot, i doubt id be here now, honestly, if i didnt go and grab a bunch of tools that became very useful so many years(10+) later.

magic only works if you believe-
AA only works if you work it-
an addiction only rules,
as long as we feed it.

there are other aa/na threads that are intended for debate, or asks questions of validity.
this could go over well, and be very helpful, if it stays OT.

i have reservations with the program, but im not going to dare challenge it. unless maybe i published another book that saved millions of lives; as long as the reader really reads it.
 
^
if it was so easy,, the cartels, cooks, and breweries would be out of business, or a pint of Guinness would be near ~15.95 per!

there are many, infinite ideas out there, especially when it comes to drug use.
being privy to hear some one who struggled for most their life, and finally got away from that life, may be worth listening to, and a massive heads up on how to spare a trail of destruction.
also, its as valuable to listen/hear someone who has been trying to fight their addiction most their life,,, and it isnt working.

in either scenario, there is a lot to learn, at the cost of years of struggle on their part, and ones willingness to sit, listen, and learn for an hour or so.


i dont do the AA thing, but did off and on through out my teens, and yeah i learned a lot, i doubt id be here now, honestly, if i didnt go and grab a bunch of tools that became very useful so many years(10+) later.

magic only works if you believe-
AA only works if you work it-
an addiction only rules,
as long as we feed it.

there are other aa/na threads that are intended for debate, or asks questions of validity.
this could go over well, and be very helpful, if it stays OT.

i have reservations with the program, but im not going to dare challenge it. unless maybe i published another book that saved millions of lives; as long as the reader really reads it.
 
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