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turning "gay" while rolling

crunchymilk said:
Didn't you just say MDMA does not turn you gay? I agree with you, it doesn't, it also doesn't mean that a guy giving another guy a massage wants to start making out as well.

I'm sorry if that's not what you were implying, but apparently your friends are straight but also tried gay acts during their lifetime? That does not make sense to me, they are clearly bi at least. If not, they experienced those events unwillingly or were confused at one point and wanted to try it but decided it wasn't for them. I just feel like you are trying to lump straight individuals with also being gay at one point?

As a straight individual I'd rather prefer to give massages to a girl even if I'm rolling. Sexuality definitely is not a shade a grey for me, would that make me a homophobe in your eyes? Cmon...
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I mean no offense, honest, because it took me some time to wrap my head around the concept, but it's not about the clear-cut categories of straight / bi / gay, and putting people into those categories is nearly impossible.

For example, imagine a man who fantasizes exclusively about sex with men, and it's all he's ever been interested in. But, due to religious beliefs, he is married, has sex only with his wife, and lives his entire life that way. He acts like a "normal" heterosexual man (and you'd be quite surprised at how many gay men are "normal" and "macho"). Most people would consider him gay if they knew what he fantasized about, but if we define it exclusively by his actions, then he would be considered heterosexual.

Or what about my friend, a male who became curious about men around age 15 and had a boyfriend briefly. This period lasted a year or so, and then was over. As far as I know, he no longer has any interest in men at age 27 (we are extremely close and he would have zero issues sharing that with me or anyone, for that matter), has had sex with probably 150 women, now has a fiance, and is planning on being married. By definition, he is technically "bi" because of his sexual experiences with men, but by all rights would be considered by every single person who didn't know him at 15 straight.

Am I bi? Defined by acts I engage in, no, I'm straight, even though I've fantasized about sex with men. But compare me to a theoretical man who never had a single fantasy about men, a gangbanger in prison, who is now having anal sex with other men. Who is bi, and who is straight?

What I'm trying to say by way of example is that trying to define people and box them into categories is useless and futile, including categorizing yourself. (Am I bi? I don't fucking know. :p Maybe, maybe not.)

The ONLY relevant questions as it relates to your interactions with other people and their sexuality should be:

- Do I enjoy hanging out with X person?
- Do I enjoy having them touch me in the way that they do? (i.e. if it makes you uncomfortable, let them know, but if not, enjoy!)
- Do I want to have sex / fool around with them? If yes, go for it!

Just relax. There is no gay / bi / straight. There's just people fucking people, the way it's been since the dawn of time. :D
 
^ Well, if an individual fantasized about gay men but had straight relationships he would be in the closet. I would obviously think he's straight since he's living a false life by having relations with women and not being true to himself but if he were true to his own feelings then he would come out and be gay. I cannot say that I know every persons intent, that is why I made sure to add situations where one might have had experiences but later decided it wasn't what they were attracted to.

There certainly is a distinction between being gay/bi/straight, but how a person chooses to hide their sexuality is another issue and not my place to assume and be like, oh he's gay even though he has sex with women. There is no way for me to know that unless he owns up to his feelings and comes out of the closet.

I'm sorry but I just feel it's offensive when you say that there are no such thing as being gay/bi/or straight. There is a clear distinction, just because individuals think one way but choose to hide their sexuality due to religious or societal influences does not make that distinction any less true.

I respect your opinion though, you may think whatever you like, this is just my opinion.
 
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crunchymilk said:
^ Well, if an individual fantasized about gay men but had straight relationships he would be in the closet. I would obviously think he's straight since he's living a false life by having relations with women and not being true to himself but if he were true to his own feelings then he would come out and be gay. I cannot say that I know every persons intent, that is why I made sure to add situations where one might have had experiences but later decided it wasn't what they were attracted to.

There certainly is a distinction between being gay/bi/straight, but how a person chooses to hide their sexuality is another issue and not my place to assume and be like, oh he's gay even though he has sex with women. There is no way for me to know that unless he owns up to his feelings and comes out of the closet.

I'm sorry but I just feel it's offensive when you say that there are no such thing as being gay/bi/or straight. There is a clear distinction, just because individuals think one way but choose to hide their sexuality due to religious or societal influences does not make that distinction any less true.

I respect your opinion though, you may think whatever you like, this is just my opinion.
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Fair enough. I see your point that people do tend to fit into straight / bi / gay categories, but what I am saying is that those categories are too narrow to fully encompass the full spectrum of human sexuality. While those categories are certainly very USEFUL to help us more easily identify sexual orientation, and MANY people do fit neatly into them, they are unhelpful in certain circumstances where there isn't a good fit.

Perfect example is me. I'm not exactly bi, not exactly straight. "Mostly straight" is probably the best description, but you're not giving me that option, so I just say "straight" to keep things simple even though it's not really 100% accurate. But what happens if we are out at a rave and I make out with a dude? Am I gay? Bi? No, I'm mostly straight still. My orientation hasn't changed, but your perception has. And now you've stuffed me into "bi" when that's not really an accurate description.

In the case of the original poster (or whoever it was that had someone kiss their hand), their friend may be similar to me. The compulsive need to categorize people into one of those three groups blinds us from the ability to accept that they aren't exactly ANY of those three choices, and by virtue of categorizing, we make certain assumptions about who they are. For example, the assumption that I'm bi if I were to make out with another man would be wildly inaccurate, just as the assumption that a girl who makes out with another girl is bi or a lesbian could be wildly inaccurate.

In the end, I think we are both right in our own ways: Yes, categories of sexual orientation are useful in certain contexts and help us to make decisions and understand our world, but when it comes to interpersonal relationships with our friends, I don't think they're terribly useful, especially when rolling balls.

If you let go of your need to categorize people (whether it's sexual orientation, social status, level of education, or race) you'll find you get to know people more completely and truthfully for who they REALLY are, not for how you've categorized them.

And to me, that's what rolling is all about in the first place. <3
 
thelearner said:
Fair enough. I see your point that people do tend to fit into straight / bi / gay categories, but what I am saying is that those categories are too narrow to fully encompass the full spectrum of human sexuality. While those categories are certainly very USEFUL to help us more easily identify sexual orientation, and MANY people do fit neatly into them, they are unhelpful in certain circumstances where there isn't a good fit.

Perfect example is me. I'm not exactly bi, not exactly straight. "Mostly straight" is probably the best description, but you're not giving me that option, so I just say "straight" to keep things simple even though it's not really 100% accurate. But what happens if we are out at a rave and I make out with a dude? Am I gay? Bi? No, I'm mostly straight still. My orientation hasn't changed, but your perception has. And now you've stuffed me into "bi" when that's not really an accurate description.

In the case of the original poster (or whoever it was that had someone kiss their hand), their friend may be similar to me. The compulsive need to categorize people into one of those three groups blinds us from the ability to accept that they aren't exactly ANY of those three choices, and by virtue of categorizing, we make certain assumptions about who they are. For example, the assumption that I'm bi if I were to make out with another man would be wildly inaccurate, just as the assumption that a girl who makes out with another girl is bi or a lesbian could be wildly inaccurate.

In the end, I think we are both right in our own ways: Yes, categories of sexual orientation are useful in certain contexts and help us to make decisions and understand our world, but when it comes to interpersonal relationships with our friends, I don't think they're terribly useful, especially when rolling balls.

If you let go of your need to categorize people (whether it's sexual orientation, social status, level of education, or race) you'll find you get to know people more completely and truthfully for who they REALLY are, not for how you've categorized them.

And to me, that's what rolling is all about in the first place. <3
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I like to call 'mostly straight' people like yourself 'heteroflexible'. And I can feel the PLUR in all your posts in this thread and love it :3
 
I'm sorry, but if any group I'm with, if he honestly(ANY MALE) grabbed my hand and kissed it I'd be weirded the fuck out.
 
nanchan said:
I like to call 'mostly straight' people like yourself 'heteroflexible'. And I can feel the PLUR in all your posts in this thread and love it :3
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Hahaha, fucking love it! "Heteroflexible" is such a perfect description. Great, now we have a new category. :P

Love you, too! <3
 
<<< CRUNCHYMILK: to answer your question (or as best I can interpret it), I simply was making a point that you can be a "straight" guy, but have a few experiences in your life that were with men, and you can be a "gay" person, and have a few heterosexual experiences: what you take away, personally, from those experiences and how you personally define yourself INSIDE is what defines you, not what you've "tried" or had a few experiences with.

I'm bi, but I'm with a man I am monogamous with and intend to spend the rest of my life with. Though I will likely never have an encounter with another woman again, I am still bisexual, because I'm always going to be capable of being attracted to, or loving a woman.

I don't think MDMA, or any drug "turns" anything for anyone, but it certainly can open up paths and gateways into elements you did not know about, or pay attention to.
 
It ain't gay if the balls don't touch.

Seriously though, sexuality isn't black and white and certain feelings can lead to someone doing something that they wouldn't normally do.

I've gotten a lot of straight guys to admit they would be with a guy. Most of them aren't down for anal, their standards for guys are really fucking high (often unrealistic), and they wouldn't make the first move or even be cool with it unless they felt really attached to the guy. Also these requirements often change when drugs are involved.

People really are way too judgmental...
 
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I can completely see that Bsiren, I just felt as if some posters thought mdma was supposed to open you up towards other sexualities but now I know it's not you or learner, I understand where you two are coming from. As long as we are making the distinction that mdma opens up hidden feelings that an individual might not have been aware of but not actually changing that person's sexual preference because that just perpetuates the false stigma that mdma turns people into gays that many drug opponents like to use in their arguments.

Seriously though, sexuality isn't black and white and certain feelings can lead to someone doing something that they wouldn't normally do. I've gotten a lot of straight guys to admit they would be with a guy, most of them aren't down for anal, their standards for guys are really fucking high (often unrealistic), and they wouldn't make the first move or even be cool with it unless they felt really attached to the guy.
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For example posts such as these, if a guy admits to wanting to have sexual relations with another guy then that makes him bi or gay. It does not mean he's still straight but wants to fuck other guys 8), it just means he's not owning up to his own bisexuality/homosexuality. I understand some users might not like using the labels though, but let's not get confused that every straight individual would have relations with the same sex if the opportunity arose, because that's clearly NOT the case. Lol anyways, time to go to sleep.
 
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i know two guys who ended up sleeping together while they were mashed up. they're both definitely NOT gay, at all, in any way. there just becomes a point where how horny you are cancels out the fact that they're a man. its like an extension of the sleeping with people you just wouldn't normally when you're drunk. they were just horny after a night out, started watching porn and somehow one thing lead to another. given how much md lowers your inhibitions and makes you downright filthy if you're in the mood, of them are embarrassed, because everyone they've told (they choose who wisely!) gets this.
 
Can you not discuss two men / two women kissing each other without being insulting? To 'you' it may seem wrong / wierd / disgusting and that is fine that is your choice, this isnt the thread to voice those opinions.

Rolling does not make you 'gay' - It can for sure lower inhibitions and make you feel so close to your friends that hugging in a loving but not sexual way is possible.

A lot of guys struggle showing love and emotions to each other (not in sexual way) but just really good close friends. When rolling its so easy to cuddle somebody thinking - wow your like my brother etc.
 
well i know whenever i roll i just want to hug someone and love someone. if i was rolling with a group of girls i'd probably hug them and stuff too, and i'm 100% straight. it's not really a big deal.
 
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