Iodine from 2C-I and the thyroid gland

[Burn it up]

As you might know, the thyroid gland produces thyroid hormones using iodine as an indispensable component. Normally, in case of excess iodine in the diet, hyperthyroidism may occur, specially on those with an unusually sensible gland.

I was wondering if the quantity of iodine in an average dose of 2C-I (say 15mg) could somehow affect the production of the thyroid hormones in the thyroid or unstabilize it in any way. Here is the number of atoms of Iodine in 15mg of 2C-I (please double check in case I messed up):

Molecular weight of 2C-I HCl = 343,6 g/mol
In 15mg we have 0,000044 moles of 2C-I
As 1 mol has 6,022 x 10^23 molecules, 0,000044 moles will have 2,63 x 10^19 molecules.
A dose of 15mg of 2C-I has 2,63 x 10^19 atoms of Iodine.
As the atomic weight of iodine is 126,904 g/mol, in 0,000044 moles (2,63 x 10^19 atoms) there will be 5,58 mg of iodine.
A dose of 15mg of 2C-I has 5,58 mg of Iodine.

In my oppinon, 5,58mg of Iodine is a lot, taking in account the reccomended daily dose is 120-150ug. I have asked a few people who might know about this, but I am getting different answers all the time. I am very interested to know about this.

Thank you.

 

[Swerlz]

A single time use won't affect thyroid function. Now if you start taking it daily for an extended period of time, you can bet something is going to happen on a number of levels. I apologize for not giving you a straight answer in terms to what you've said.

im sure someone will be able to give you a more definite answer

 

[vecktor]

short answer is no. the iodine in 2-ci is not avaliable to the thyroid, it is almost all excreted still attached to the benzene ring.
so use is not going to directly effect the thyroid.

 

[Burn it up]

What about this?
Thyroid Problems Associated With 2C-I Use

 

[Iodjini_dk]

Iodine in 2C-I is not the same as ingesting the iodine ion (which the thyroid gland uses). If halogens in organic molecules would be the same as halogen ions then a drug ike 4-FA would be as toxic as flouride in tooth paste.

As vecktor says the vast majority of it is excreted still attached to the benzene ring.

 

[seep]

This issue comes up periodically on this board. It is almost always immediately dismissed as erroneous (as in vecktor's response above). But it seems there is still a fair amount of uncertainty. Review the subtle differences between informed responses in the following:

Post #7 by fastandbulbous here.

This entire thread.

And especially post 3 by Hammilton here, which I guess implies there still is unresolved confusion among the better minds on this board as well as in the medical literature. It's bad enough that the -ide vs. -ine naming conventions aren't uniformally used in the literature, but I'm also sensing that there's disagreement about the ultimate fate of (at leat open-chain) halogen-containing organic compounds.

I'm sure the long answer is around here somewhere.

 

[Burn it up]

Thanks for the answers, guys. Some good info about 2C-I metabolism here:

"The identified metabolites indicated that 2C-I was metabolized on the one hand by O-demethylation in position 2 and 5, respectively, followed either by N-acetylation or by deamination with subsequent oxidation to the corresponding acid or reduction to the corresponding alcohol, respectively. The latter metabolite was hydroxylated in β-position and further oxidized to the corresponding oxo metabolite. On the other hand, 2C-I was metabolized by deamination with subsequent oxidation to the corresponding acid or reduction to the corresponding alcohol, respectively. 2C-I and most of its metabolites were partially excreted in conjugated form."

From: New designer drug 4-iodo-2,5-dimethoxy-β-phenethylamine (2C-I) : Studies on its metabolism and toxicological detection in rat urine.

EDIT: So it seems that Iodine remains attached to the bencene ring, just as Vektor said. Its logical, taking in account that no bromo intoxications have occurred from 2C-B (LD = 15mg/kg), that the Br remains attached to the ring. And, being a halogen, we presume the Iodine in 2C-I will behave the same.

 

[seep]

EDIT: So it seems that Iodine remains attached to the bencene ring, just as Vektor said. Its logical, taking in account that no bromo intoxications have occurred from 2C-B (LD = 15mg/kg), that the Br remains attached to the ring. And, being a halogen, we presume the Iodine in 2C-I will behave the same.

Try applying the same logic to 4-chloroamphetamine. The halogen stays put there too.

 

[MyExcuse]

I know this is purely anecdotal but I figured it might be relevant:

When I was younger (13-15) I would use 2C-I every weekend, and during the summertime or holidays I would use frequently whenever possible.

My mother suffers from thyroid problems (hypothyroidism) and must take iodine supplements.

To this day I have suffered no ill effect from copious 2C-I consumption during my youth. I have had periodic tests done to ensure my thyroid does not fluctuate and so far nothing is out of the normal.

Not that this confirms or discounts any danger of 2C-I consumption, but I personally would use it again without worry about my thyroid.

 

[MurphyClox]

Iodine in 2C-I is not the same as ingesting the iodine ion (which the thyroid gland uses). If halogens in organic molecules would be the same as halogen ions then a drug ike 4-FA would be as toxic as flouride in tooth paste.

One can NOT compare the different halogenes directly, in particular not fluorine vs. the rest. The leaving group quality increases with increasing mass. For this reason it is practically not possible to remove a fluorine in vivo (very few exceptions), while e.g. alkyl bromides are formidable alkylating agents (= mutagens).

Only because the iodine stays put in this special case, it is wrong to draw general conclusions from it.

- Murphy

 

[Iodjini_dk]

When Br is attached to a benzene ring it is not an alkylating agent. The story is different for alkylbromides where Br is a good leaving group.

Maybe I was wrong in comparing them to benzene rings with fluorine attached, but I really dont think you can regard bromobenzene as an alkylating agent as SN2 on bromobenzene is impossible.

 

[MurphyClox]

Nope, I don't consider aromatic halides as good alkylants, but still, the leaving group quality is significantly different. Therefore, the conclusion was wrong.

But for sake of discussion, the aromatic halides usually stay put in vivo, that's right.

- Murphy

 

[joanmiro]

I have talked to a 100% reliable source here in Spain, and there was a recent case where a mid-20s guy, otherwise healthy but suffering from Hyperthyroidism ingested an unknown amount of 2c-i dissolved in water (i.e. he OD'ed) and nearly died.

Apparently his EKG and vitals indicated extreme cardiac distress, bordering on cardiac arrest. The hospital misdiagnosed as anxiety and sent him home. The effects didn't subside in more than 24 hours and he was saved by a specialist sympathetic to the cause.

I don't know which drugs were administered to save him, nor his dose, but this is 100% fact- and quite scary.

So, tread carefully...

 

[vecktor]

I have talked to a 100% reliable source here in Spain, and there was a recent case where a mid-20s guy, otherwise healthy but suffering from Hyperthyroidism ingested an unknown amount of 2c-i dissolved in water (i.e. he OD'ed) and nearly died.

Apparently his EKG and vitals indicated extreme cardiac distress, bordering on cardiac arrest. The hospital misdiagnosed as anxiety and sent him home. The effects didn't subside in more than 24 hours and he was saved by a specialist sympathetic to the cause.

I don't know which drugs were administered to save him, nor his dose, but this is 100% fact- and quite scary.

So, tread carefully...

This unknown taking an unknown amount of unknown purity material is completely unhelpful.

whatever amount of 2C-I was ingested as the symptoms were acute and there is simply no way it has anything to do with the iodine in 2ci which is what the original poster asked about.

as a general point all stimulant drugs are contraindicated in active unmanaged hyperthyroidism.

 

[hugo24]

Even if its the Hydrojodide salt (think greedy vendor increasing "a gram of the base"),its still quite a small amount.My KI tablets have 65mg in it (I live close to a reactor).

 

[pharmakos]

The Erowid report and the instance in Spain are most likely due to an interaction between 2C-I and the hyperthyroid MEDICATION that the people were taking, not due to an interaction between our beloved halogenated phenethylamine and the thyroid gland itself.

Copypasta from a reply I wrote in this old thread:

The person in the report had pre-existing Hyperthyroidism and was taking the anti-thyroid drug Methimazole at the time he took 2C-I. My thought when I read the report was that the odd change in metabolism he had was actually due to the interaction of the 2C-I and the Methimazole that were both in his system.

From the Wikipedia (yeah yeah) article:

Quote:Methimazole inhibits the addition of iodine to thyroglobulin by the enzyme thyroperoxidase, a necessary step in the synthesis of thyroxine.

Perhaps since his medication prevented any free iodine from binding to his enzymes, the 2C-I stepped in and bound to his enzymes instead, possibly irreversibly.

Looking back on this theory, I'm not so sure that it is plausible. Maybe some of you wiser minds can use it as a spring board for some more theorizing though!

 

[grue]

I have talked to a 100% reliable source here in Spain, and there was a recent case where a mid-20s guy, otherwise healthy but suffering from Hyperthyroidism ingested an unknown amount of 2c-i dissolved in water (i.e. he OD'ed) and nearly died.

Apparently his EKG and vitals indicated extreme cardiac distress, bordering on cardiac arrest. The hospital misdiagnosed as anxiety and sent him home. The effects didn't subside in more than 24 hours and he was saved by a specialist sympathetic to the cause.

That sounds like 2c-i overdose. I mean that is the most likely explanation.

Perhaps a 2c-i overdose in a person with preexisting susceptibility to cardiovascular difficulties, due to hyperthyroidism.

This is a nice thread.

So, chemists: so what about iodine left over from synthesis, in a product? Is that likely or possible? As an error? I don't want to get into synthesis details as is our rule, but I'm looking at the PIHKAL entry right now, and it mentions a quantity of iodine monochloride to be used.

 

[MurphyClox]

So, chemists: so what about iodine left over from synthesis, in a product? Is that likely or possible? As an error? I don't want to get into synthesis details as is our rule, but I'm looking at the PIHKAL entry right now, and it mentions a quantity of iodine monochloride to be used.

Remaining iodine (as iodide-anion) is absolutely likely to be a impurity of PEA- and amphetamine-based compounds. As it is widely known (...even (the german) Wiki lists this as a fact), a very famous (clandestine!) route towards amphetamines involves among other reagents elemental iodine, which is used to assist in a reduction. An expected sideproduct would be iodide.
As clandestine productions very often do not undergo purification processes that are lege artis, I can see potential for a significantly increased iodide-uptake. This is most probably only of significance when consuming such an impure drug on a regular base; rare use, as it is strongly recommended with all PEA-/amphetamine-based drugs, wouldn't pose a major problem in this respect.

As a sidenote, one must emphasize that if you encounter a batch that is significantly contaminated with iodine, it is most likely that other impurities are present, too, which pose a greater threat to your health.

Summarizing, I'd say that YES, iodine is probably an issue with impure street drugs, albeit not the biggest one should worry about.

Peace! - Murphy

 

[Bi0hazardOpeth]

Hi,

Since doing 2C-I (18-23mg)- 8 Times in 5-6 months, I have had this left over increase in my metabolism and a Stimulant (Ritalin-like) raciness/body load. With abrupt small to medium Muscle Spasms & Tension - like my body is releasing the body load in muscle jolts. I've read of others saying they got the same after effects from 2C-I and even 2C-E. Even when I don't smoke I still feel this left over change in raciness/stimulant fidgetiness that is miles more intense than ever before. It would be like being on large amounts of stimulants, where my body would twitch in small ways as a way to let out the excess stimulant energy. Not very pleasant or socially helpful at all.

1) Can people share their experiences of reoccurring stimulant body load - weeks to months after taking 2C-I or other 2C-X/phenethylamines?

2) Also, any reports of other after effects from 2C-I, which used to or continue to get re-activated, with or without cannabis months to years after taking a 2C compound?

I'm curious if certain phenylethylamines can have an effect on left over stimulant/bodyload based reactivation similar to how other 2C-I flashbacks can be brought forth? My metabolism seems much faster, without a doubt. I'm 25 and since 2C-I have had some hairs die and turn grey, not my general hair color or anything, and a feeling like I'm on speed, with a lot more dopamine and maybe norepinephrine bandwidth/uncontrollable stimulation. Something new is when I'm in the cold, my body has a much harder time handling it, and starts to tremor right away almost uncontrollably in certain situations. Overall I really feel like my metabolism is sped up.

I'm really trying to figure out the connection between this, since some other people have also discussed it very directly on other 2c-i forums. I wrote a more detailed write up of my Positive and negative after effects from this left of stimulant effects. I no longer need to take stimulants for my ADHD, it's like it's naturally there, to name one. Although, sometimes my hands kind of do a fast tremor like when I was actually on stimulants, 2 years ago, which sucks. I feel a little jittery, like rushed in my head, also some muscle spastic movements or pulses/bodyloads. Similar to taking 2C-I, where the energy bodyload builds up and you want to kind of shake it out of you, or tap your feet to release it. I feel what seems to be left over manifests itself in small jumps in muscle movements as a subconscious release of the energy. This can happen in social situations, where I have trouble slowing down to the pace of the conversation. This didn't use to happen, after I stopped taking Ritalin. It wasn't full blown, but I really feel racy in my head, which can make it hard to create a proper conversation speed, or feeling rush on responding.

More detailed report here @ http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=524441

Thanks in advance, for all the input and advice...

-Bi0hazard

 

[atara]

What about this?
Thyroid Problems Associated With 2C-I Use

Well, this quote is just wrong:

Iodine has NEVER been used in any psychotropic (mood-altering) chemicals other than thyroid medications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altropane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM-694
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Iodopropofol

Iodine is found in a number of medications which are well-known and not psychoactive as well. In particular, there are around fifty contrast media containing iodine. A comparison between chronic and occasional use is not really appropriate since the trip report mentions a single use.

It looks like the combination of 2C-I and thyroid medications is a bad thing, but if 2C-I caused thyroid damage alone we'd surely have seen a lot more damage, considering that it's become the most popular of the 2Cs. I mean, we have two instances of 2C-I and antithyroid medication together causing massive thyroid damage, and zero instances of thyroid damage without a combination with antithyroid medication.

Since doing 2C-I (18-23mg)- 8 Times in 5-6 months, I have had this left over increase in my metabolism and a Stimulant (Ritalin-like) raciness/body load. With abrupt small to medium Muscle Spasms & Tension - like my body is releasing the body load in muscle jolts. I've read of others saying they got the same after effects from 2C-I and even 2C-E. Even when I don't smoke I still feel this left over change in raciness/stimulant fidgetiness that is miles more intense than ever before. It would be like being on large amounts of stimulants, where my body would twitch in small ways as a way to let out the excess stimulant energy. Not very pleasant or socially helpful at all.

Sounds more like HPPD than thyroid damage.

I'm 25 and since 2C-I have had some hairs die and turn grey

I'm 19 and I've been getting grey hairs for the last five years. Quit bitching.