University Classroom Etiquette

[Cohesion]

In class: I need to shut my mouth so that I can learn more. By Listening. The teachers talk about social issues that I feel SO compelled to talk out. Instead of allowing the teacher to guide the conversation, I consistently give my own opinions -- poorly formed. I desire debate and discussion. But I get in the way of letting class just happen.

I know that strong personalities (and poor articulation) are off putting. And I feel so isolated. Regardless: I speak out because I feel it's better to say diversive things than to keep silent. Silence is saddening. Though discussion is necessary, I'm realizing that the classroom "forum" isn't the place.

But I have some mental health issues (I'll put it like that) that I'm coming to terms with. I feel so different from everyone there. I have skeletons in my closet (they all do) but mine, in my mind (paranoia?) my mental illnesses are worn on my sleeve. I frequently feel like people look at my face and are able to see every sin (on a subliminal, not literal level) all over me. Oozing out of my aura.

( Just a bit of history about me below )

I've been in "higher education" for years, with too many credit hours that haven't added up to a bachelor's. I've sat through so many classes. I've been there, done that, but now I'm at the beginning of a 2 year Special Ed at Illinois State University. High expectations, very homogenous SES (socio economic status) students. Future educators. I'm pissed. Where are our puerto ricans. Where are our blacks. Where are the american-Indians, the american-everyone that is not mostly white and well to do?? I have a fundamental resentment with the COMPOSITION of my "collegues".

I am a non traditional student, single mom, 1 hour + commuter, POOR, financially dependent on the government, and my car is over 20 years old. I feel ashamed, but happily committed to this ontaking. I'm doing great so far academically, it's my class behavior.

What are your thoughts? I need critical and blunt opinions. What are your experiences?

 

[yucatanboy2]

Maybe you need an outlet for you social action thoughts? Can you do some activism work away from the classroom so you can focus on learning in the classroom?

One thing to consider is that maybe the audience in the classroom will get no value from you information and feelings on social issues because they are there to learn the course and get the grade and probably try to block out any non-essential-to-high-grade information?

In terms of making well thought out arguments, you can try writing down what you want to say, then reading it before you say it to double check that it makes sense and is clear and respectful?

Just some quick thoughts. I hope you work out a way to resolve these issues.

In terms of resentment for the composition of the college, it is well known that many groups are underrepresented in higher education compared to their populations, which sucks, and we need to think about the problem and devise ways to work towards fixing it. We had a discussion about this at my school a couple weeks ago.

 

[AmorRoark]

Maybe you could see a university-provided counsellor about this problem? I assume ISU has free counseling as most state Universities are more than willing to help their students who are facing problems both in and outside the classroom. That said, I think the fact that you realize you might not be presenting yourself best in class, can admit it and want to work on it is a *great* sign. Try not to be too hard on yourself.

I agree with yucatanboy with the writing it down before you speak suggestion. This will both organize your thoughts and probably allow you to speak less because of the time you're spending writing.

Good luck and let us know your progress. It's always nice to hear resolution to these inquiries.

 

[badandwicked]

But I speak out because I feel it's better to say diversive things than to keep silent. Silence is saddening. We need to discuss. BUT we need well-led discussions, too... it's like I don't LET the teachers can facilitate like they want.. I am "too much" for people to handle. I make people uncomfortable. I'm SURE of it. I'm a "talking out in class bully". : ( I want to present myself well. Thought out. But it's like Tourette's : (

In your case it's better to stay silent than say diversive things. I know group silence can be frustrating, especially when you can see the potential for an interesting debate, but just because there're the opportunity to discuss doesn't mean it's appropriate or relevant to discuss. A time & a place for everything.

Being a 'talking out in class bully' also devalues what you have to say. Quantity over quality. When you start to speak people will just think 'here she goes again..' and switch off. As I think you know, it is very irritating to have someone like this in a group, both for the other students and the professor.

I suggest you set yourself the aim of saying nothing for the next couple of classes, tempted though you may be to speak up, say nothing at all. Just concentrate 100% on listening, and then reflect on these silent classes and what you've learned and how the class works without your contribution. Then you may be in a better situation to judge when it's appropriate to speak and assess the content of your speech.

Could it be that as a single parent you've been deprived of adult conversation in the past? At yukatanboy2 said maybe find another outlet for your need to discuss & be intellectually stimulated. Is there a debating society you could join? Are there classmates who you could continue discussion in the bar with after class?

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Don't be so hard on yourself. Many profs like when people speak up in class because it shows they're paying attention.

I'd like to hear what your teacher thinks about all this. If I were in your position, I would stop by my prof's office hours and ask him or her what they think about your contributions and whether you should tone it down. I can only imagine they'd give you an honest answer.

If you really enjoy school and find the need to continue your education into grad school, your classes will be more discussion-based. I'm taking 4 classes in grad school right now and ALL of them are discussion-based; IOW if you don't talk during class you lose participation points.

Just something to think about....

 

[addictivepersona]

Hey, mami. I'm not good with giving advice in this area, but have a friend who is. Passed this thread along to her and this is what she said:

i would...hm. probably ask this person to take a good look at her motives. because people can change behaviors. it's not easy, it's incredibly difficult. but it's impossible if you don't even know why you behave the way you do. some of the motives i've found for that kind of behavior from dealing with my kids are...some kids have poor impulse control. they struggle to contain their ideas while other people speak, they're afraid they'll forget. some of them just don't CARE what anybody else has to say. some of them are dominant personalities and they just strongly want to control what happens in the classroom. i would say that how to fix the problem depends a lot upon the reason it is occurring. and not knowing this person, i don't know why that is.

because her actions don't line up with her philosophy. she says discussion is good, but she's not promoting it. so either she doesn't really believe discussion is good or something is keeping her from being a good discussor. so the first thing is to figure out what the reason is.

if the problem is an impulse-control issue then i agree with the person who says to write it down or three reasons: 1. it makes sure the idea is well thought out and gives the person some time to construct an argument that says exactly what she wants to say. 2. it takes up some time, because writing is slower than speaking, and gives others a chance to share their opinions, which again, helps with the impulse control issue. 3. it keeps her from forgetting what she wanted to say while she listens to others, if that's ever a problem. which is actually one of the biggest reasons people don't listen. they have their ideas in their heads and they don't want to forget them when they start really listening to somebody else. so that's not an issue if she writes it down, and it frees her brain to listen without the worry of forgetting her own thoughts.

 

[cj]

Hey miami I have the same problem teachers fucking hate me for it. In high school it was all good because people were so uninterested that the teacher loved feedback and people who showed interest. College is a different ballgame as im sure you know. I have gotten better by simply writing down my questions or comments then at the end of class usually the teacher will say "does anyone have questions" that seems to be the appropriate time to state opinions or whatever you wanna say. Also schedule an appointment with your teachers and let them know the situation and find out if you are bothering them or what the deal is they will like/respect you for doing this honestly. Good luck bro

I didnt even read the responses before posting sorry didnt mean to steal other peoples ideas.

 

[Cohesion]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses!

It is a great idea to write down my opinions; in this way they will be further refined. Also, I will be weeding out my "impulsive" comments which are irrelevant to the professor's goal. Professors, I've found, do love discussion but they also might enjoy it after class (email, office hours) where we can speak more freely.

I took the advice of one of the first PP that suggested to commit to saying "nothing" for a few classes, and observe what happens without my input. I did pretty well, (I did ask a few questions though), BUT in my last class I went off the hook when they were talking about an emotionally arousing issue - SES and the history of education. I can't stand the mostly white composition/lack of diversity in higher education. So I messed up and felt really embarrassed. I will work on this writing down things.

Also, for this class, I think it will be good to take my meds BEFORE class (klonopin) because we talk about so many social issues. Thanks again for all your thoughts! I hope that I have succeeded in giving more "results" to "these types of questions" as another person asked. I'll be in touch : )

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

I have had students like you in my classroom. I'll tell you a secret: teachers like you. They like your enthusiasm, they like how focused on the topic you are and your passion for discussion. Now that said: we also like all of our students to get a chance to participate in discussion and if you are monopolizing the discussion then I would eventually pull you aside and give you the above information and the following suggestion.

During class try to have more of an inner monologue going. Come up with responses and counter-arguments to the points being raised. There is no need to always voice your ideas out loud. Look at yourself as a custodian of the classroom...if the class needs help on a discussion and you have an idea that will illuminate some critical point: then by all means VOICE IT. If your ideas are already being spoken by others then take that moment to quiet your external voice and sharpen your internal voice.

 

[Cyc]

First of all, I think it's great that you're so passionate about higher education. I am too, and I feel a great kinship with my fellow lifelong learners.

Second, shut the fuck up in class. You are "that person" and it really is offputting. I don't know what to tell you, except maybe sit in the back of the class and absorb. This will put you out of the line of fire, and hopefully act as a constant reminder to keep yourself in check.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Lol, I was thinking along these lines.

Yeah, I'd say you'd be "that person" in any class you take that is neither specifically Social-Justice oriented nor Seminar-style (<15 students, discussion-heavy, usually 3rd and 4th years). In all other classes, most students are really just there to jot down notes and use them to do well on exams. If that one lecture happens to be about social justice, then said students will learn what they feel is necessary to pass the exams or write the essays. Most of them are so lost in middle-class lala land that they will never even notice that they're using flash-cards to memorize heart-wrenching facts about poverty or what have you.

And, really, even I do not really care much for Social-Justice discussions in, say, a Greek Mythology class, because frankly they have little relevance there and serve only to chop up the lecture and mire it.

If you are passionate about Social Justice, take Social Justice or Sociology classes oriented toward inequality and critical theory, and aim to take those only in the higher years. Avoid "survey" style classes and take ones that focus on a very specific aspect of a very specific topic. There you will probably find other students that share your passion.

That said, I have personally learnt and accepted the fact that you will be hard-pressed to find critical activists at a University, as they'd have realized what a joke of a capitalist ripoff the so-called "liberal arts" classes (and universities in general) really are and dropped out...

 

[Apostacious]

You can tone it down, or you can keep going, until you meet more people that think and act like you. Does it really matter to you what some business majors think of you? People that are there to get a job and commit their lives to making more money without really finding out how to be happy, and share ideas aren't exactly people that you should consider important. If I were you, I would keep it up, and force your instructor to do a better job at directing a dialog with his/her students.

In my experience, and in my opinion, all classes should have some sort of dialog between students and instructor. Students should be challenging their high-priced instructors to go beyond just reading their textbooks for them. They should demand that the instructor connects the information their relaying with how it applies to the students lives, and WHY they are learning it. I think that there should be no such thing as "participation points" as well. But, I think that an instructor should include what was discussed in an argument between students in class, or between the instructor and the students on an exam, even if it seems tangential. It obviously shouldn't include personal information that was shared, but how it applies to the human condition in general. This is why I loathe giant conference-hall-style power-point lectures.

 

[satricion]

I've taught at universities. Some people talk more than others. I have a few quick things to say:

Firstly, as someone already said, your teacher may like you because you talk. However, if you are actually as domineering in the class as you say, they may also find you frustrating.

Do you do all the set readings? You should. That way when you talk it is more likely to be on topic. Try to make all your comments with reference to something in the course reading. That way it will more likely be a useful or insightful comment that the teacher and other students are going to want to here.

You could talk to your teacher about this. Often, it is difficult to get dominating students to shut up because teachers are afraid of offending them. If you tell them your thoughts, they may be a little firmer with you in guiding how much you contribute, which might be a good thing.

 

[Binge_Artist]

No professor worth his salt would care about an undergraduate's opinion on anything. That, alone, should be sufficient reason to stay quiet.

However, if he feigns interest, chance are, he wants to sleep with you.

 

[Apostacious]

^ If a professor does not care about his employer's opinion, then I would consider them to be worth their weight in sand instead of salt. Salt is generally worth $3 a pound, and that is on the high side. I would feel cheated if I paid $360-$600 for a semester's worth of power point lectures. A professor should care about their undergraduate student's opinions, because they can shape them into more informed opinions. It is their job to do this. To do otherwise is to be a horrible instructor. They may as well not be there, and simply offer the class online to increase enrollment and profit concurrently if they are to ignore their paying student's questions.

It is quite obvious that a Socratic dialog between a professor and her/his students combined with authoritative information is the best way for a student to store the information long-term. Using flash cards, and rote memory to memorize a system of information will result in data redundancy fairly quickly. If the professor simply lectures the entire time, and doesn't allow the student to actively learn, then the information will blur together with all of the previous and future information the student has and will learn. It is equally important for this to exist in a remedial class as it is in an advanced post-graduate course.

 

[satricion]

No professor worth his salt would care about an undergraduate's opinion on anything. That, alone, should be sufficient reason to stay quiet.

However, if he feigns interest, chance are, he wants to sleep with you.

This is bullshit. Many professors love teaching because it gives them the chance to share important ideas with people. Discussing these ideas with students and watching them learn and expand their minds is extremely satisfying. It means that you are forced to understand the ideas yourself in a deeper way so that you can explain them in plain language and apply them to real world examples in order to teach. It's challenging and fun.

 

[ebola?]

Everyone's given very sound advice. Personally, I've never had a problem with someone that's too talkative, really. If they're crowding out others or ill-prepared yet verbose, I just call on other people. I'm pretty sure that I'd much rather have you in my seminar rather than someone who was like me in undergrad--I literally did not say ANYTHING in class until my junior year.

ebola

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

No professor worth his salt would care about an undergraduate's opinion on anything. That, alone, should be sufficient reason to stay quiet.

However, if he feigns interest, chance are, he wants to sleep with you.

You're trolling man. You are aware that many of us in this thread are graduate students and/or adjuncts at universities (or have been)? We care and I never slept with any of my students despite the opportunity present.

 

[ebola?]

He's done high-level study in math. Still likely trollin'.

 

[Binge_Artist]

You're trolling man. You are aware that many of us in this thread are graduate students and/or adjuncts at universities (or have been)? We care and I never slept with any of my students despite the opportunity present.

FWIW, I was talking about professors, not grad students.

But my point was more along the lines that a professor isn't gonna hear some student's opinion on something and think, "My God, that's brilliant! I've never thought of it like that before!"

At least, it wouldn't happen often. But if it did, you could probably bet that professor's advisor wrote his thesis.