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New JWH Urine TesT!!!, detect time really 72hrs??? PLEASE HELP!!

Captain.Heroin said:
The simple solution to avoiding JWH 018 and 073 DT's would be to move onto JWH 250, or maybe another synthetic cannabinoid.
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I think the funny thing is that so many synthetics are coming out all the time without the same structure. That means by the time laws/tests come out 10 new synthetics are discovered. The cat is out of th bag. This is like Elmer Fudd trying to catch Bugs Bunny. As soon as Elmer figures out how to get in to where Bugs lives Bugs has 3 new locations.

The only solution is to legalize marijuana. But we all know that. If I need a cannbinoid I go straight to natural however I do feel the synthetics are pretty neat even though I barely touch them.

But back to 018 and 073, any info I can find mentions 72 hours of detection. I guess the jwh breakdown is water soluble? That was the problem with THC metabolites. They were fat soluble, even though they are being sought out for the health aspect of that property. I see hemp oil in all kinds of stores now.
 
I specifically wanna know if due to the fact that it tests for the parent chemical instead of metabolites, does this make the detection time shorter. Chemicals rarely remain in the human body for a length of time and remain unchanged, that is why I am leaning towards believing that the detection window is smaller. The 72hrs is what Redwood claims, they are a business, seeing as how this predicament of mine all started when they had a press release giving it to all of their clients (whom most didn't even know that these synthetics existed).
 
I suspect they detect the metabolites, seeing as JWH's get metabolized fairly quickly.

But i recall reading that the first step in the metabolism of JWH's is N-dealkylation - if this is the case, and they're testing for the metabolite, then JWH-200 and JWH-019 would also be detected.
 
Basic Base said:
yes, i most likely will move on to another synthetic, but i was more interested in the process of JWH compounds breaking down in the body.
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Yes, but unfortunately this sets the precedent... if it is pursued, then soon they will add tests for each new synthetic cannabinoid. Then they will keep making new ones since there are a great many that have been synthesized and tested to some degree, and the drug tests will try to keep up. And then marijuana will be legalized and they'll drop it.

I'm pretty confident it will be legalized for personal use in California in November! :) It's become so normalized that it is inevitable.
 
I wonder how many JWH's have metabolites similar enough to give a positive on this test. I'm not on probation or parole, and i'm almost out of jwh-018 & 073, so it isn't really an issue for me personally, but i am interested in the metabolism of cannabinoids. Wonder if these labs have any CP's or AM's on their radar yet, or if they're soley concerned with the more common aminoalkyl/napthylindoles.

Also, does anyone care to offer any speculation as to possible substances that could cause false positives?
 
Why would they test for JWH if it isn't technically illegal? For athletes I can understand, but are they testing it for jobs too?
 
This is what has me confused by talk of these new tests.

THERE IS NO LAW STATING "ANY AND ALL CHEMICAL THAT STIMULATES ANY CANNIBALOID RECEPTOR IN THE BODY IS ILLEGAL TO CONSUME."

Furthermore, other that anecdotal reports about using these to get "high", I am not aware of any official legal or medical reports stating that consuming these creates some deleterious effects on health or causes some dangerous form of intoxication.

So... what is the legal or even medical basis for either government (i.e., probation officials) or private (employment agencies, HR departments) utilizing positive tests for these to result to negative consequences for the person?

It seems they are just making shit up off the top of their heads, and claiming it is illegal for us to use when it is NOT illegal! This has GOT TO BE LEGALLY CHALLENGED!!!! No way it is legitimate in the law to do this.

What if they were to just decide for some, I dont know, religious reason, that consuming PARNIPS was NOT allowed... could employers then fire anyone who tested positive for parsnips just because they felt like it? Would that really be legal?? I can't believe it would, but who knows... perhaps so long as it does not break constitutional bars against discrimination based on race/sex/age/disability they are allowed to make and apply any and all rules they damn well feel like. Is this correct?
 
^Excellent point. I agree totally, and I also intent to fight it if it happens to me. I am in a DUI court, which is a specialized treatment court that is almost identical to most drug courts. Our stipulations specifically refers to the Cont. Sub, Device, and Cos. Act as the guideline of substances not to use, but also has an alcohol clause. Nothing that refers to "all mind-altering chemicals" like I have been hearing that some drug courts enforce. It's incredibly interesting to watch how this is all being handled.
 
Also I apologize for stating that the test only tests for the parent drug, I must had been mixed up.
Both JWH-018 and JWH-073 metabolize extensively in humans via oxidation and glucuronide conjugation. Depending on dosage, the hydroxylated JWH-018 and JWH-073 and the carboxylated JWH-018 metabolites can be detected up to 72 hours in urine. Parent drug excreted in human urine has not been reported.
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:from Redwood Website.
 
To all those who think this doesn't stand on legal ground: it's called the Analogue Act--your argument based on consumption and scheduling will actually work against you in a court of law.

Sorry to break the bad news but if you consume any mind altering substance (specifically scheduled or not) and it is found in a urine or blood test you're out of luck. Period end of story.
 
I would imagine that in the drug courts situations they probably have some kind of contract they make you sign stating that you wont consume any substance that alters your mind....

and If you are in drug court, the odds are that your drug use has caused some issues for you , and (maybe) it is in the states best interests (in regards to your rehabilitation) for you to not be using any drugs that alter your consciousness....

As for HR and employment stuff.....

I am pretty sure that they can create whatever policy they want to create, they could probably create a policy stating "if you work here, you can not do x" (where x = anything they decide they dont want there employees to do

since they are private corporations , I believe they have the right to do what they want in that regard....

this stuff doesnt reallly seem to bother me that much, I mean, its a 72 hour detection time, if you apply for a job , just dont smoke a few days before the test. as for people on probation with random DT and whatnot, that sucks for them, but again, i would rather some places start testing for it, while it is legal, than to have the whole country just ban the shit...
 
naginnudej said:
To all those who think this doesn't stand on legal ground: it's called the Analogue Act--your argument based on consumption and scheduling will actually work against you in a court of law.

Sorry to break the bad news but if you consume any mind altering substance (specifically scheduled or not) and it is found in a urine or blood test you're out of luck. Period end of story.
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"Period end of story" BULLSHIT.

You are incorrect and ill-informed about the analogue act.

Synthetic cannibaloids are not at present included as they are NOT chemical modifications of any existing Schedule I or II drugs, which is a requirement of the Act.

NO they are NOT slight modifications of the THC molecule, dumbass! They are totally different chemicals that happen to also stimulate the cannibaloid receptors, but in general they are in no way shape or form chemically similar or related to THC.

You apparently believe the "Analogue Act" says "anything that gets you high in any way is illegal"

Review material presented here:
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/analog/analog_info1.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/analog/analog.shtml
 
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DwayneHoover said:
"Period end of story" BULLSHIT. I think you are either a pig or are getting off acting like one.

You are incorrect and ill-informed about the analogue act.

Synthetic cannibaloids are not at present included as they are NOT chemical modifications of any existing Schedule I or II drugs, which is a requirement of the Act.

NO they are NOT slight modifications of the THC molecule, dumbass! They are totally different chemicals that happen to also stimulate the cannibaloid receptors, but in general they are in no way shape or form chemically similar or related to THC.

You apparently believe the "Analogue Act" says "anything that gets you high in any way is illegal" That is so laughably stupid, and immensely wrong, that clearly you are either mentally retarded or you are here to deliberately deceive people.

Review material presented here carefully if your tiny little pseudo-piggy brain is capable of understanding it:

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/analog/analog_info1.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/law/analog/analog.shtml
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Wow, talk about a personal attack. If I made a mistake, please inform me, you don't have to be a condescending asshole.

I'm also not here to fool anyone pal. In fact, the AA is a bit more than meets your eyes. Nowhere in my post did I mention structural-similarity to THC; in fact, I avoided it because there is more to the Act then structural similarity.

Let's look here at the link you posted:
(1) The Controlled Substance Analogue Drug Bill. This is contained within Public Law 99-570, the Controlled Substances Analogue Enforcement Act of 1986. This is the so-called "Designer Drug" bill which was intended to allow the prosecution of any act associated with an unscheduled drug, if that drug is analogous either in structure or in action to a scheduled drug, and if it is intended for use in man. Here is the exact wording of this amendment:

(32)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), the term 'controlled substance analogue' means a substance --

(i) the chemical structure of which is substantially similar to the chemical structure of a controlled substance in Schedule I or II;

(ii) which has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in Schedule I or II; or
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Hmm, it looks like you misread the act. Sorry to induce anger in you, but you are wrong. I never meant to act like a police officer. You seriously misread my post. Have a nice night. <3
 
I do believe that if they wanted to, they could fall back on the AA and say that because JWH is consumed by humans to "mimic" the effects of THC, then they are subject to penalty. The line is drawn between human consumption and non-human consumption.
 
After some reading it seems that in some cases (i) must be met and in others it has been overlooked. Thanks US government for your generous ambiguity. A test case would tell the tale.
 
naginnudej said:
To all those who think this doesn't stand on legal ground: it's called the Analogue Act--your argument based on consumption and scheduling will actually work against you in a court of law.

Sorry to break the bad news but if you consume any mind altering substance (specifically scheduled or not) and it is found in a urine or blood test you're out of luck. Period end of story.
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The analogue act applies to analogues!

A bunch of these JWH compounds apparently have no chemical relation to eachother, they just share similar receptor affinities.
 
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