Sick and Tired of AA/NA

[Sweet P]

I know how you must feel. I'm court ordered to attend probation and drug counselling until February 2011, after being convicted of several drug-related offences earlier this year. It sucks, but there isn't much you can do (you could possibly appeal the sentence, since AA/NA are spiritual-based programs and the court may be violating your religious freedom by forcing you to attend - but that will probably be a long and costly process as you'll need a lawyer). Just go along with it until the court order ends, then you can quit.

 

[hobhead]

The fiercest collection of anti-AA material out there is the orange papers. http://www.orange-papers.org/ I'm not going to say this guys every point is fair or put in a civil way. Its value is for me is that it is well put together and I find it congruent with my AA/NA impressions. Anyway if you enjoy a well put together rant about AA you might go check out the Orange Papers.

That linked site is a piece of work man . Talk about ranting and raving .

Rational Recovery is an alternative to the ridiculous AA/NA cult scene and despises the whole idea of ''powerless...." . There are no meetings with a bunch of sad sacks, hucksters and people jammed into it by court order .

 

[junctionalfunkie]

^ I was just about to post the RR link. But the OP has no choice. Rational Recovery doesn't exactly have a sign-in sheet you can show your P.O.

I used to completely reject the disease model of addiction, but am realizing through research and self-reflection that it's probably got some merit to it.

AA/NA however is complete bullshit, for the same reason that Fundamentalism of any sort is..... they tell you the that their way is the only way.

Life's a little more complicated than that.

 

[dragonslayer428]

I don't think AA is bullshit; however, I am a recovering alcoholic. For people that are truly alcoholic (not a 'heavy drinker'....there is a HUGE difference) it is a g-dsend to go into those rooms and and listen to the experience, strength and hope from people who suffer from the same disease.

I will admit, sometimes it does get boring. In fact, a lot of the crap I hear in the rooms bother me because they just dick size or tell war stories of their past drinking. The reason you SHOULD share in a meeting is to talk about the 'Solution.' Which is a higher power, the 12 steps and the Big Book.

If it were not for AA, I'd be dead. I was diagnosed with liver problems 4 years ago and was given 1 year to live. Until I entered AA and gave my will and life over to the care of G-d, I couldnt stop drinking. No matter how hard I tried.

I can see how it could seem like total B.S. to a non-alcoholic because they truly do not understand the disease of alcoholism.

So, to me, it's been a life saver.

 

[junctionalfunkie]

And how is the "disease of alcoholism" different from any other addiction?

With the exception of meth and alcohol, I've been addicted to possibly every class of substance known to man. Twice. At least.

 

[justsomeguy]

there is always Narconon!

 

[Legerity]

I've spent a long time going to AA/NA and I've come to the conclusion that it's program can be harmful for certain people. Many people continue to "need" several meetings each week even after 20 years.

I suppose if somebody enjoys the meetings then this isn't so bad. But if one is continuing to go out of fear then it becomes another form of dependence. I also ended up relying on AA/NA for social support, and now that I left I'm finding it difficult to meet other people to be around. It's a very easy way to meet people when any day of the week you can walk into a room full of people, even if you don't necessarily like most of them.

 

[EoTorv]

The constant predictions that occur within meetings that lessened AA participation equals relapse, coupled with predictions that even a small relapse will equal total devastation ends up enhancing the damage people do to themselves imo.

The attribution that AA participants every personality trait and every problem is about their addiction can really magnify people's problems as well. The answer to every problem that comes up is not calling your sponsor & hitting more meetings. I know many AA members and meetings are more sane & healthy about these sorts of issues than others, but a blanket AA recommendation is going to involve people encountering some pretty unhealthy meetings and clubs as easily as some of the more positive ones.

 

[junctionalfunkie]

Many people continue to "need" several meetings each week even after 20 years.

Oh, because dontcha know, they are "meetingaholics." It's a disease. These poor people are incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions. They are blameless! They are genetically or physiologically unable to not attend meetings.

8) :D

 

[Help me please]

^ Like Marla Singer in Fight Club?

 

[junctionalfunkie]

I actually think that Pahlaniuk meant that meeting-addiction thing to be a metaphor for the loneliness of the Modern Urbanite, but yes, like that.

 

[Legerity]

Oh, because dontcha know, they are "meetingaholics." It's a disease. These poor people are incapable of taking responsibility for their own actions. They are blameless! They are genetically or physiologically unable to not attend meetings.

8) :D

Out of curiosity, are you an AA/NA member? My sponsor had 21 years of sobriety and told me that if he didn't go to a meeting for a few days he started to feel edgy and uncomfortable. Ask a lot of long-time members if they think they can live a good life without meetings that they will tell you no.

I'm not saying this is a real "need" (hence the quotation marks), but rather it is what many people come to believe because it is what they are told, lest they end up with "jails, institutions, or death".

 

[K12]

I would like AA to be more logic oriented. The sputtering of mindless statements by the therapist and the muttering of stories from sad sacks across the room accomplishes little to advance an individual. It just keeps one going to AA. When going around the room, telling war stories, this old guy was in his 70s and explained to the class how he has been coming to AA for 43 yrs. Like an ass, I started laughing loudly! in my seat -- I apologized -- but I just couldn't take it. I excused myself to the bathroom. A bunch of guys smirked when I came back in and gave me a thumbs up. I felt a little bad though, but what could I have done? It is absolutely ridiculous to attend meeting for 43 yrs and to think it is encouraged at AA... wtf? As one poster said, the guy could take norcan and get out of AA. My God. After 43 yrs still no life. Imo it's pathetic.

 

[junctionalfunkie]

^^^

AA/NA however is complete bullshit, for the same reason that Fundamentalism of any sort is..... they tell you the that their way is the only way.

No, I am NOT an AA or NA member. As I said above, it is Fundamentalism. It is based on doctrine and dogma rather than reason or results.

These people no more "need" meetings than anyone "needs" Jesus in their heart. It's simply the assertion of an organization with an agenda.

Healing people should be scientific, not political.

 

[calmAnimal]

No, I am NOT an AA or NA member. As I said above, it is Fundamentalism. It is based on doctrine and dogma rather than reason or results.

while AA/NA is based on doctrine (traditions) there are reasons for them and results from the groupsis clearly evident

These people no more "need" meetings than anyone "needs" Jesus in their heart. It's simply the assertion of an organization with an agenda.

An agenda? haha yes the agenda is to help other addicts get clean. why are so many ppl against this?

Healing people should be scientific, not political.

well it sure isnt political. AA nor NA is not affiliated with any other outsie organization.

and while i havent seen any studies on how or why AA/NA works, it is said in the beggining of every meeting. it goes something like this " we believe that the healing power of one addict helping another is without parallel" how i see this working is hard to explain and not in anything ive read but this is how i understand it. humans are social beings, many drug users fell away from the "normal culture" and live outside of it. drug users often bond in their use because they have similar hobies. I know i did. and obviously BL is a community of drug users so i think i can say so do you.
Now once a user defines his life as unmanageable and wants to get clean, they have dificulty with how to do it. it is very difficult to break those ties with other users. so they may be able to get clean for a short while but will usually fall back into old patterns. NA is a new place for addicts to come together and share their experience, strength and hope. Users who could not get clean on their own, can relate to what is said in the meetings. they feel like they have a place of their own and once again they can begin to form social bonds.

 

[Sweet P]

The sputtering of mindless statements by the therapist and the muttering of stories from sad sacks across the room accomplishes little to advance an individual.

Calling the chairperson/secretary a "therapist" makes a mockery of all those actual therapists who have studied for years to gain their qualifications. There are no therapists in AA/NA... just the sad sacks you mentioned.

 

[junctionalfunkie]

while AA/NA is based on doctrine (traditions) there are reasons for them and results from the groupsis clearly evident

Evident in their 2% success rate, right? 8)

An agenda? haha yes the agenda is to help other addicts get clean. why are so many ppl against this?

Their agenda is to primarily to maintain their position as the "accepted" or "only effective" method, while they are neither. The recover industry is a huge one, and clinics, courts, lawyers, etc. generally financially benefit maintaining the image that the 12-step programs are infallible and without rival.

well it sure isnt political.

po·lit·i·cal (p-lt-kl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or dealing with the structure or affairs of government, politics, or the state.
2. Relating to, involving, or characteristic of politics or politicians: "Calling a meeting is a political act in itself" (Daniel Goleman).
3. Relating to or involving acts regarded as damaging to a government or state: political crimes.
4. Interested or active in politics: I'm not a very political person.
5. Having or influenced by partisan interests: The court should never become a political institution.
6. Based on or motivated by partisan or self-serving objectives: a purely political decision.

AA nor NA is not affiliated with any other outsie organization.

Excepts courts, prisons, the recovery industry.... ad nauseam.

 

[blazelate]

Im at sober living and i have to go to 6 a week

Shoot me now

Leaving in 7 days.. and counting.

It doesnt work for everyone, it only "works if you work it" ( i know you love hearing that ! haha)

 

[Legerity]

^^^

No, I am NOT an AA or NA member. As I said above, it is Fundamentalism. It is based on doctrine and dogma rather than reason or results.

These people no more "need" meetings than anyone "needs" Jesus in their heart. It's simply the assertion of an organization with an agenda.

Healing people should be scientific, not political.

I missed that, glad to hear.

and while i havent seen any studies on how or why AA/NA works, it is said in the beggining of every meeting. it goes something like this " we believe that the healing power of one addict helping another is without parallel"

This is a major problem with AA, that there is no reason for why anything might work, because for the majority of people it does not work. If somebody is completely happy in AA then I have no intention to try to convince them to leave. But the reality is that the percentage of people who do well in AA is extremely low, as mentioned above. The study that I read about found that 5% of people succeed in AA, and 5% of people had a natural remission of their addiction without any treatment. So, at least statistically, AA may not offer any benefit over no treatment at all.

And if you begin to question, think critically, or disagree with what is taught at a meeting, there is no open discussion. People will either tell you to "take what you want and leave the rest" or tell how you that your best thinking is what got you into problems in the first place. If there is debate it is about different interpretations of the big book, not about whether the big book even makes sense or not.

 

[lilfoot]

imo AA/NA can be a beautiful program for some people, just like christianity can be a beautiful religion. however, if you wanna get hardcore, you're in a fucking cult, and that's all there is to it.

the majority of people at the probably 500+ NA meetings i've attended in my life are sick, stupid, cruel and pathetic fuckers. sorry, but that's the truth. that goes for newcomers and oldtimers alike. i know because i was one of them! there are some very wise people in those rooms, and some very loving and honest and endearing folks too, but they're so few and far in between, it's barely worth the hassle.

in a lot of ways NA saved my life, and re-opened me to spirituality, something that i'll always thank it for. but in other ways the things they indoctrinated me with, the endless moralism, the horrible sense of guilt, are injuries that are very far from being healed.

my suggestion is to keep an open mind, but maintain your boundaries. don't fall for the group-thinking shit, it's toxic as fuck. don't let your inhibitions keep you from learning a few things, too, though, as there really are plenty of people in there who have seen it all. just be reasonable, easier said than done, but that's the best advice i can give.

good luck!