Antihistamines to raise serotonin ?

[marijuana-kid]

Okay so ive been reading up and researching this alot .

According to many sources Antihistamines like Diphenhydramine HCL and Chlorpheniramine maleate have been claimed to be mild SSRI's or SNRI's .

I was wondering if anyone uses antihistamines for anxiety purposes ? And how does it help you ?


I was also wondering if this would be an effective way to raise serotonin after MDMA use ?

thank you

 

[jamesmartin]

I is bumpin this due to intrest in de toipce

 

[aparenz]

i'd post this in advanced discussion

 

[The Smoking Man]

Okay so ive been reading up and researching this alot .

According to many sources Antihistamines like Diphenhydramine HCL and Chlorpheniramine maleate have been claimed to be mild SSRI's or SNRI's .

I was wondering if anyone uses antihistamines for anxiety purposes ? And how does it help you ?


I was also wondering if this would be an effective way to raise serotonin after MDMA use ?

thank you

You could probably use them for their SSRI or SNRI or whatever effects, but then you might as well just take real antidepressants and not feel drowsy all the time.
And no, it wouldn't be effective in rejuvenating the serotonin system post-MDMA use. In fact, it'd probably worsen the situation. Tryptophan or 5-HTP, preferably taken with ECGC or carbidopa, are logically the only things that would help raise serotonin levels after rolling, seeing as they're the actual building blocks of serotonin.

 

[jamesmartin]

^ is this dude right ?

 

[RGB]

Diphenhydramine was in fact instrumental in discovering modern SSRIs like Prozac. The history of it is detailed in this fascinating and easy-to-read paper:

History of Modern Psychopharmacology: A Personal View With an Emphasis on Antidepressants
Edward F. Domino, MD
From the Professor, Department of Pharmacology, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Also, everything that The Smoking Man said makes sense -- you'd be overwhelmed by the side effects before you noticed the mild serotonin reuptake inhibition.

Regardless, an SSRI would only allow serotonin to accumulate in the synaptic cleft, where it would not only cause further downregulation, but also be more vulnerable to degradation by MAO. You'd be better off taking a serotonin precursor like 5-HTP along with green tea. The green tea (which contains ECGC, the compound The Smoking Man mentioned) acts as a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor. Simply put, it suppresses the enzyme that turns 5-HTP into 5-HT (serotonin), but only peripherally (e.g. not in the brain). This has the net effect of allowing more 5-HTP to be metabolized into 5-HT in your brain where it's actually useful to you.

 

[marijuana-kid]

yess i love green tea .


So many benefits .



What if i just had green tea without the 5-htp?
would that be effective in raising my serotonin and dopamine levels ?


I heard the caffine content in green tea just stimulates these chemicals leading to even more downregulation

 

[RGB]

Caffeine is an extremely mild dopamine releaser -- you won't notice a change. Green tea is great for you, but I don't think it'd do much to unusually impact your serotonin and dopamine reserves on its own.

Also, there's a difference between downregulation caused by day-to-day endogenous releases of neurotransmitters and the kind of massive downregulation caused by, say, a potent serotonin releaser like MDMA. Downregulation is part of the brain's normal attempt to maintain homeostasis -- if a signal really was too strong, you'd want your brain to tune it out.

In the case of rolling, your brain is faced with a massive, persistent stimulus. The brain overcompensates (at least by our definition), leading to downregulation that lasts for a long time and is compounded by using again during the regeneration period. In the case of using an SSRI, the stimulus isn't massive, but it is persistent, leading to a gradual decrease in receptor sensitivity as the brain becomes acclimated to a higher basal level of activity.

The point I'm trying to make is that most downregulation is normal, and all downregulation will reverse itself given enough time. You shouldn't have to worry about avoiding endogenous releases of neurotransmitters, but you should worry about abusing neurotransmitter-releasing drugs like amphetamines, since the depletion and downregulation they cause can last for a long time (disregarding the whole prickly issue of neurotoxicity, too).

 

[augustaB]

Interesting. I didn't know that about antihistamines. I've been taking them since I was 7 and I'm now 63. I still hate the effect they have on me. Perhaps that why I always recover from summer rolls better than winter ones.

 

[The Smoking Man]

The green tea (which contains ECGC, the compound The Smoking Man mentioned) acts as a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor. Simply put, it suppresses the enzyme that turns 5-HTP into 5-HT (serotonin), but only peripherally (e.g. not in the brain). This has the net effect of allowing more 5-HTP to be metabolized into 5-HT in your brain where it's actually useful to you.

EGCG might be centrally active, too, but I can't be sure. I've read some papers turned up on Google that said that EGCG distribution in the CNS does have significant effects, and I've seen others that say it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier very well.