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What would happen if drugs were legalised Part 2. Heroin

Well I beleive that the harms of prohibition outweigh any of the natural problems inherent in having heroin legally available. Yes with iv heroin use overdoses are inherent.. however when people do not have consistent heroin and get a surprisingly potent batch people are more likely to od than if the heroin was pure and consistently potent. Also I assume Narcan/Naloxone would be either provided with the heroin or be sold right next to it so everyone would have it. Really once someone has a decent tolerence to heroin ods are not that common unless you start mixing stimulents, depressents, or alcohol with it.

The reduction in crime would be huge. Right off the bat there would be no arrests for the possesion or sale of it. Then there are the people who steal or commit other petty crimes to get their fix because of the rediculously inflated prices on the black market. I'm sure some people would still steal to support themselves but then again if their stealing to buy heroin when its cheap then their just criminal types would be stealing and commiting other criminal acts to lives with or without any drugs..

Unemployment? wow the only unemployment I can think of would be the dea, cops, and correctional officers layed off because of the reduction in crime.. The way the system is now people are missing work and not having jobs because they have to run around doing soo much shit to score, being sick because they cant afford it, missing work or being late to go cop , etc. If all the people who are using now had a legal consitent source they could get their sick off in the morning go to work, maybe do a small lunch hit if their work isnt critical to anyones life, (doctors,drivers, and the like), work go home and do their shit at home.
 
The removal of the criminal element from illicit drugs through legalization is always going to be an upside, and crime would drop. But I don't feel like it will ever be viable to legalize heroin. For recovering addicts maybe, but the idea of the public being able to medicate their own pain relief with such an addictive and powerful analgesic is ridiculous. Doctors and pharmacists struggle to protect the public from prescription meds far less dangerous.
I've had little to no experience with heroin, and would struggle to find a few people who've even smoked it. User numbers probably wouldn't explode. But I hate the thought of someone turning to it to escape some problems and never coming back, and society somehow enabling this. the war on drugs is a failure, but I do see the merit in protecting society from a drug that seems to have real power over people.
Thoughts? Is this society's demonizing of drugs flowing through me? I have seen a lot of movies....
 
A lot of people don't end up addicted to heroin after trying it, it does suck to see people go down the path of drug addiction, but I don't think the majority should be prevented from having freedom of choice because a few will have problems.
 
I saw a stat thrown up somewhere about the % of ppl who try heroin and them develop an addiction and it was under 50%. Not everyone who uses heroin does so to relieve pain some ppl just like the buzz. The money saved on law enforcement could be redirected to rehab clinics etc.
 
skatkid said:
I saw a stat thrown up somewhere about the % of ppl who try heroin and them develop an addiction and it was under 50%. Not everyone who uses heroin does so to relieve pain some ppl just like the buzz. The money saved on law enforcement could be redirected to rehab clinics etc.
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You are correct, it's actually much lower than 50% according to the National Institute of Drug Abuse; a United States government agency. According to the NIDA website, about 23% of heroin users become addicted to it. While this means that most users are not addicts, it is an extremely high proportion of addicts compared to other drugs, so using the money saved on LE to help with rehabilitation is a good idea.
 
The same thing that happened in china with opium.

Over many generations, people learn their lesson, they educate their children to respect drugs and everything else, people use but in moderation, because people who abuse opiates do not add to society and cannot support themselves.

Side note:
As soon as the missionaries brought pure morphine into China and tried to stop the opium smoking that had been there for generations, they created a whole lot of Chinese addicted to pharms. Great outcome guys.
 
GlassAss420 said:
Unemployment? wow the only unemployment I can think of would be the dea, cops, and correctional officers layed off because of the reduction in crime.. The way the system is now people are missing work and not having jobs because they have to run around doing soo much shit to score, being sick because they cant afford it, missing work or being late to go cop , etc. If all the people who are using now had a legal consitent source they could get their sick off in the morning go to work, maybe do a small lunch hit if their work isnt critical to anyones life, (doctors,drivers, and the like), work go home and do their shit at home.
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Employers are not stupid. The second day you pulled that shit I would sack your sorry arse.
 
^The whole idea of legalization avoids shit like needles on the streets, since people will likely get their dose at a sterile injection room at their local chemist (if its an OMT style treatment). All kinds of things like levels of disease, sharing of unsterile injection equipment - everything like that, would be entirely minimized.

As it currently stands, people still find themselves having to share at inoppertune times - such as times that they're really hanging out, have no money for sterile equipment, wanky pharmacies won't sell them equipment, the mobile NSP services are closed until 7:30pm, and are only open for 3-4 hours (meaning they can't get everyone in).

It's a real issue that needs looking at. Too many people look at IV drug use as just some scourge that can't be helped - but it can. Every pharmacy should have to stock cheap or free injection equipment - and be obliged to hand it to anyone who asks.

In a pharmacy in the richmond area of melbourne just last week (slade pharmacy at the epworth hospital). I requested to purchase some 27g insulin syringes, swabs and sterile water. They then asked me if I had a "PRESCRIPTION". I replied "A prescription for what? a harm reduction tool? I plan to use these syringes to inject illicit substances, to reduce the risk of infection of blood borne virii". The pharmacist proceeded to tell me that they're policy was to not to supply insulin injection equipment to anyone without an insulin prescription.

Fucking ridiculous.
 
I think legalising amphetamines would put a far greater strain on the medical system then heroin would
 
Ibis man thats fucked they turned you down, I honestly don't know what they think they are accomplishing it isn't as though you can't cross the road to another chemist. That sort of thing makes my blood boil because they just look down on drug users like we are inhuman and don't deserve rights or something. Like fine if you don't agree with IV drug use, but what are the odds that the mainstream if fully accepting of all your views, just because you don't agree doesn't mean you should condemn them to unsafe practises when its not only completely uneccessary but your workplace makes a profit from selling the fits.

23% isn't the addiction rate thats made out with heroin, I mean people pretty much believe one hit and your hooked. Still, it definately needs to be acknowledged that is a very high % relative to other substances. I do think that when you take the stigma away and make more treatment options more available then the number of people with debilitating addictions would probably drop even if the addiction rate rose.
 
yeah dude, at least some people who aren't IV users can see the benefit of LAWS being in place that protect EVERYONE not just the igorant law abiding retards.
 
I live in freakin dope city USA (Baltimore) and I think it would be pure hell if heroin was legal and there were as many users as lets say, the users of alcohol. I'd say 7-8 out of 10 adults drink. If that many used dope..... good god. You wouldn't be able swing a dead cat in this place without hitting a dopefiend. Heroin turns people (including myself) into passive lumps of shit devoid of ambition and I wouldn't want to live in a place surrounded by such people. (in other words, I can't stand people like.....the 'old' me)

But on the flip side, if heroin was legalized and the only people who used it were the adults in the city who already use it when it's illegal, that would be a different story. I don't know what that might look like. Maybe the dopefiend parents would spend more money on food for their kids instead of dope and maybe we could really turn this place around. Who knows....

I think it would be nice if this city started handing out naloxone (overdose reversing drug) and stopped sending policemen to the scene of overdose 911 calls. Too many people die in the bathtub with ice cubes stuffed down their shorts because their stupid ass friends are too afraid to call 911 and get arrested.

I wish that in Baltimore and all over the world we could STOP criminalizing overdoses and treating everyone at the scene of an overdose like a criminal. It's a goddamn medical issue. It's life or death.
 
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I would imagine that if h was legalised today that in ten years time it would be pretty much impossible to get a job or drive a car or do many other things unless you could pass a drug test.

I can see the point that a lot of crime such as burglaries etc would stop and that would be a good thing.

I wonder about how many more would use if it was legal. If the numbers increased by much then would that outweigh any good that legality may bring?

Would I? Well legality or not hasnt stopped me using other things in the past.

For me it would probably more depend on the cost as to if i even tried it. The fear of possible addiction, difficulty getting and also cost keeps me away from it currently. Personally if it was legal its still probably something i would not do.
 
skatkid said:
I think legalising amphetamines would put a far greater strain on the medical system then heroin would
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I agree there. Like most people here I love getting on the gear, but legalizing it would be a full scale disaster. We already have a ridiculous amount of people sculling caffeine like water just to get through their day, I imagine a huge number of them would make the swap to amphetamines in a second if the stigma and availability weren't an issue, and unlike opiate addiction amphetamine addiction just isn't sustainable. Eventually the body or the mind gives out under the strain of constant over-stimulation.
 
People should still have the right to put said strain on their body and/or mind though imho, how can you feel free as a human being if someone else can govern what you put in it? That shit is ridiculous in my opinion.
 
drug_mentor said:
People should still have the right to put said strain on their body and/or mind though imho, how can you feel free as a human being if someone else can govern what you put in it? That shit is ridiculous in my opinion.
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Which is fine, except when they have a psychotic episode or a heart attack or can no longer function as and have to be institutionalized or hospitalized or any of the millions of horrible things that serious amphetamine addiction does to people, somebody has to foot the bill. Our healthcare system is strained as it is.

Meth is one of the few drugs where the harm from the drug itself far outweighs the harm caused by prohibition. The problem isn't OD's from variable purity, or contaminants making people sick, or a lack of education, it's just straight up toxic and highly addictive. I don't think your average Aussie has the ability to handle meth without developing a habit, and unlike an opiate habit, a meth habit isn't sustainable indefinately. Eventually you slide off the rails.

The only way I can see it working is if users are forced to register for some kind of insurance policy whereby they pay a certain amount to be able to use meth, and this money goes towards monitoring their use, having regular counselling on hand, paying for any healthcare problems that arise, etc etc. Basically negating the strain on society.
 
^ This is the kind of thing I'm torn about. I do think drugs should be legalised but I also think

drug_mentor said:
People should still have the right to put said strain on their body and/or mind though imho
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Simplifies the issue. You can give someone all the education and information in the world, but it still wont tell them how they, personally, will react to a substance. All the ideas you hold about what you're going to do, how you'll avoid addiction etc, can fly out the window once you start doing a drug you love. How many people actually plan to be addicted? Noone wants it, and although at the core it is a choice, it is a highly conditional one; drug use/addiction actually changes your brain.

Now that's not to say that I don't think ultimately people should have the choice, I just don't think it's reasonable to expect people to make the right or informed choice when it comes to drugs, no matter how much education you give them. A 23% addiction rate is huge, and I think increasing the amount of addicts would cause huge problems, which I can't see any real solutions for at the moment.
 
Some good points here. For me personally, freedom of what you put in your body overrules all.

The hardest thing is placing reasonable restrictions on drugs and sorting out those who can use the drugs safely - or as safely as possible - and those who can't.

Mental illness is also another spanner chucked into the works of legalizing drugs. We know so little about so many psychological illnesses and specifically the effects of (currently) illegal drugs on persons who already have, or have a high chance of developing mental illness.

There's so much more research to be done, and with the current restrictions on illegal drugs we are being held back immensely.

Crankit has the right idea. A free-for-all would be just as bad as prohibition, but with close monitoring off addiction and adequate education I think society as a whole would be better off than the mess that is Prohibition.
 
I do acknowledge a lot of problems would come from legalisation of certain drugs but it is the only solution I see, it isn't fair to force the mto use substandard quality product they pay out their arse for and it isn't fair to make criminals out of them for deciding to do so.

In my mind, freedom has its price, and someone cannot say they are truly free if a Government prohibits them from using certain substances because they MIGHT fuck it up and have a problem with it.

I don't think someone always has to foot the bill, you could make people pay for their own health conditions brought on by drugs or go untreated. You know they made the choice, they didn't have to fuck themselves up. I am a firm believer in freedom but I never said people should be spoonfed if they start fucking up. There comes a point where you must lie in the bed you made yourself...

I agree with you footscrazy, I am simplifying the issue, however I am not sure that is a bad thing. It has been made so complicated with laws and jails and propaganda it is just ridiculous, give people a chance to prove they can be responsible on a whole atleast. If legalisation was a complete and utter failure I wouldn't neccessarily oppose reprohibiting certain drugs, so long as it remained decriminalised.

I just think in a lot of ways the issue IS that simple where we ask, do I want to live in a society where I am totally free to make choices relative to my lifestyle and recreation or do I want to live in a world where I can be imprisoned for choosing to put a substance in my body for my own enjoyment? Despite the fact certain legal drugs are worse and there is no science to show current illicit substances are impossible to enjoy in moderation.

I have a million more complicated reasons I believe legalisation is a more sensible policy than prohibition, but I am also a very firm believer in freedom and to me freedom is black and white, you either have it or you don't.
 
I don't think this would ever come to be unfortunately :(.


Pros:
Organised crime would have to consider a new area to get their money from.
I could have one of my favourite drugs given to me and doses that I would be able to measure out accurately because the purity would be spot on.
There would be less people committing crimes so that they could get there next fix.
The younger generation would not frown down upon Heroin as much as what they do now.

Cons:
More people who are not experienced with the drug would be dropping all over the place from ODs.
There would be a greater number of addicts.


I can't think of much more at the moment but I will add more once my brain decides to come back.....
 
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