Will the New Tobacco Tax stop you from buying Tobacco to mix with your Marijuana?

[De quincy]

Taxing tobacco, taxing cannabis?

I’m interested to gauge people perceptions of the new tobacco taxes and controls; and if you feel there is some potential use for a similar form of control/regulation for the use of other illicits within the Australian scene, particularly cannabis regulation.

What would be the strengths of such a control measure and what would be its undoing?

 

[Mr Blonde]

Strengths: Decriminalized, regulated, reduced crime, hopefully better programs and services for problematic cannabis users.

Cons: Expense would probably lead to continuation of black market undermining the whole thing, also I believe that there is too much opposition to it in the general population for it to work if it went ahead.

 

[drug_mentor]

The new tobacco controls are a fucking laugh! They already tax the shit out of tobacco, $20+ for a packet is a god damned joke.

I believe marijuana should be legalised and taxed but not to the extent cigarettes are now being taxed.

 

[De quincy]

Apparently there is a statistical formula, not that I could quantify the toes on my hand! It is formulated to find a costing that sits between the optimal price of an illicit substance and sits below the illegal price of the commodity, effectively creating a happy medium. Not too cheap but cheap enough as to not create a black market. The payoff is that it has the potential to destroy the black market. I did see it many years ago in a stats lecture but it seems to have eluded me.

Buy I agree there is scope to control and regulate based on a more health driven formula contingent on the cost of dealing with any potential health outcomes in deregulating cannabis or for that matter any substance contingent on risks and harms and not throwing buckets of money into the bottomless pit off prohibition.

 

[bit_pattern]

I support all measures to reduce smoking in the community, be they increased taxes or new labeling laws. There is ample evidence to show that both measure will be effective. Sure, taxing it might lead to more chop chop but potential new smokers aren't going to be attracted to chop chop in the way they are the slickly marketed cigarette packages. The combination should go a ling way to reducing uptake and should be applauded imo.

But, yeah, what drug mentor sez, legalise and tax pot but probably not to the extent that we do tobacco. At least pot has some value (ie. it gets you high) tobacco's sole purpose is to make you feel better because you are withdrawing from nicotine.

 

[De quincy]

I support all measures to reduce smoking in the community, be they increased taxes or new labeling laws. There is ample evidence to show that both measure will be effective. Sure, taxing it might lead to more chop chop but potential new smokers aren't going to be attracted to chop chop in the way they are the slickly marketed cigarette packages. The combination should go a ling way to reducing uptake and should be applauded imo.

I totally agree. Do you see any scope for refrom with other drugs via this system?

 

[bit_pattern]

I totally agree. Do you see any scope for refrom with other drugs via this system?

Honestly. No. Simply because the nanny state is too entrenched. It's funny though because I am perfectly comfortable with the cognitive dissonance of wanting to see drugs legalised and regulated while wanting to see tobacco regulated out of existence, so am happy to advocate higher taxes while still bemoaning the nanny state. Theoretically, it should be more than possible to apply the same system to recreational drugs, I just don't see the possibility on the political horizon. We are living in an increasingly wowser-ish pendulum swing at the moment, as Australian society seems want to go through from time to time.

 

[walking_wounded]

I agree with bit_pattern...The tax is harm reduction. The new tax also brings in a lot of cash to get us out of the shitter as a country as well.

I would like to see weed made legal and sold at a dispensary and taxed marginally lower than cigarettes. Maybe have like a joint a day limit and track it or something?

 

[Doorway]

If the tobacco companies developed an analogue for tobacco would they avoid the tax?

 

[nabollocks]

Check out the doco "Cannabiz", and see what is going on in BC, Canada at the moment. There is a big push for medical marijuana in BC, as well as the fact that BC supplies 20b marijuana industry every year. A government report suggested the province tax and sell marijuana exactly the same as tobacco. Unfortunately this will not happen under the current conservative government. It is a good watch.

Summary:

Canada's $20 billion-dollar marijuana industry is now at a violent crossroads between crime and commerce. Impossible to police, yet steadily gaining public acceptance, the cannabis industry is now so vast and vital to Canada's national economy that it can no longer be ignored.

Police believe that one house in ten in the picturesque town of Grand Forks, BC contains a grow op. Credit: Lionel Goddard
CannaBiz unfolds in Grand Forks, BC, a small border town nestled in the Kootenay Mountains, where draft dodgers planted the first "BC Bud" in the 1960s. After the pine beetle chewed through what was left of the forest industry, marijuana became the backbone of the local economy. In secret forest plots, basements, barns and high-tech underground bunkers, growers nurture some of the world's most potent bud. Most of the marijuana here, and in the rest of Canada, is destined for the US market, where a pound of premium weed sells for a street price of $4,500.

Across the country, formerly laid-back marijuana growers now live in fear of armed thieves, and smugglers take huge risks to cross the beefed up American border. Conflicted police and RCMP officers like Harland Venema continue to fight a seemingly futile battle. In Grand Forks, Brian Taylor, once nicknamed "the marijuana mayor", is campaigning for medical marijuana as a prescription for economic prosperity. Ex con Sam Mellace dreams of supplying medical marijuana nationally through Shoppers Drug Mart outlets.

Former "ground pounder" Mel Bell retraces the route he used to smuggle marijuana across the border to the United States. Credit: Ed Araquel
With inside access to growers, gangsters and police, CannaBiz untangles the inner workings of the marijuana industry and raises serious questions about Canada's drug laws. Stephen Easton, a leading Canadian economist, recommends the end to marijuana prohibition, yet the government's position is to get even tougher on an industry that now employs as many Canadians as the auto industry. Are the staggering profits from the cannabis industry better off in the pockets of hard-core smugglers and criminal gangs, or would the Canadian economy benefit from taxing this exploding industry?

CannaBiz is written and directed by Lionel Goddard and Chris Aikenhead for Omni Film Productions in association with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

There is also another amazing documentary narrated by david suzuki called 'The downside of high'.

This documentary explains how there are 3 types of people with different genes. One group will be able to smoke MJ without any negative effects, one group will be able to smoke MJ with minimal effects, and one group is most certainly in trouble of serious mental effects if they smoke MJ. Once again, a good watch.

Teenagers who start smoking marijuana before the age of sixteen are four times more likely to become schizophrenic. That's the startling conclusion of some of the world's top schizophrenia experts, whose research is featured in the new documentary The Downside of High.

The scientists' groundbreaking work on the connection between marijuana and mental illness also reveals that, for all young adults, smoking marijuana nearly doubles the risk of developing recurring psychosis, paranoia and hallucinations - the hallmarks of schizophrenia.

Ben was first introduced to marijuana while at a high school in BC. His increasingly psychotic behaviour led to a year-long hospitalization.
The Downside of High, directed and written by Bruce Mohun, tells the stories of three young people from British Columbia who believe - along with their doctors - that their mental illness was triggered by marijuana use. All three spent months in hospital psychiatric wards, and still wage a battle with their illness. Today's super-potent pot may be a big part of the problem. Modern growing techniques have dramatically increased the amount of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana - ramping up the threat to the developing teenage brain.

But there's an intriguing twist to the story: in the process of cultivating more potent strains of pot, growers have also been breeding out a little-known ingredient called cannabidiol that seems to buffer the effects of THC. So today's high-octane pot actually contains a double-whammy - more psychosis-producing THC, and less of the protective CBD or cannabidiol.

For many people, smoking marijuana is not a big deal - it is, after all, the most widely-used illegal drug in the world. The Downside of High provides a scientific perspective on some of the little-known and little discussed risks of marijuana, particularly for teenagers.

The Downside of High is directed and written by Bruce Mohun, story-produced by Maureen Palmer, and produced by Sue Ridout for Dreamfilm Productions of Vancouver.

I see what BC is doing with pot to be the direction that Australia will take in the future as more scientific research is done on the matter.

 

[Mr Blonde]

If the tobacco companies developed an analogue for tobacco would they avoid the tax?

Ha ha, interesting... I'd like to see that!

 

[thestudent14]

I've thought about this a few times.
It was only a couple of months ago that I did a complete 180 from being against the legalisation to completely pro legalisation of mariujana.

The tax and ciggarettes I think is a bit much, I don't smoke. But I feel for all you fella's who do. It was like the alcohol tax a couple of years ago, kicked me right where it hurts, and it's cash that I could really use instead of working more and having less time for my studies.

Legalisation of cannabis would definately be interesting to see how it played out,
I have mixed views about how it would impact on the black market though. The blackmarket for cannabis is my experience is still minimal, it's more a cheap social thing amongst minority's.

Alot of people think it would cripple the black market as a pivotal part, true it might have an immediate minor dent. But most of the cash on the black market in Aus at the moment is through Cocaine and Methamphetamines. I think it the long term though the legalisation of mariujana would open up a whole lot of new people to try it if it was legalised, and then many of them may start questioning the pro's and con's of other "stronger" drugs.

I'd personally wish our country was more willing to give things better trials. A 12 month trial run of legalisation of weed, I think you would find there would be less violence on the streets, and a slight reduction in crime.
Another doco worth checking out is "how weed saved the west" it goes for like an hour though, it's on youtube.

 

[nabollocks]

I think it the long term though the legalisation of mariujana would open up a whole lot of new people to try it if it was legalised, and then many of them may start questioning the pro's and con's of other "stronger" drugs.

Are you preaching gateway drugs here?? Get back in your hole!

Alcohol and tobacco are the ultimate gateway drugs if you follow that logic...

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ In my experience they sure are. And tobacco is perfect with just about any other drug as well.

 

[thestudent14]

Are you preaching gateway drugs here?? Get back in your hole!

Alcohol and tobacco are the ultimate gateway drugs if you follow that logic...

Oh god no!
I have definately been miss interperated. IF I believed in gate way drugs then MDMA is mine even though I had tried Weed and alcohol long before it.

What I'm saying is that with a legalisation of weed, alot of people would definately be re-considerring their views towards the drug community.

Which could work in either the black market selling more.

Or just having more people understanding that Drugs aren't evil. and People shouldn't be judged quite as heavily as what they are.

 

[nabollocks]

Or just having more people understanding that Drugs aren't evil. and People shouldn't be judged quite as heavily as what they are.

This is the general consensus in BC regarding pot. Everyone here smokes . I could not believe it when I first arrived. But now I am used to smelling it 24/7.

 

[Busty St Clare]

Given how easy it is to grow good quality weed at home I can't see many people suddenly being worried about a forced tax on weed. It would also make it difficult for police to determine if the spliff in your hand is "moonshine" or government sanctioned weed with all the duties paid for. I would see a better way of regulation being a cannabis licence similar to a car rego. The advantage to this is the health funds and insurance companies would also have access to this list and adjust premiums accordingly. This would likely deter a lot of average punters who might otherwise been curious to try weed.

I'd just be happy if it was decriminalised with on the spot fines. Far more harm is done to especially young users by means of a conviction not their lungs.

 

[bit_pattern]

Are you preaching gateway drugs here?? Get back in your hole!

Alcohol and tobacco are the ultimate gateway drugs if you follow that logic...

Weet Bix is a gateway drug if you follow the gateway logic

 

[bit_pattern]

Given how easy it is to grow good quality weed at home I can't see many people suddenly being worried about a forced tax on weed. It would also make it difficult for police to determine if the spliff in your hand is "moonshine" or government sanctioned weed with all the duties paid for. I would see a better way of regulation being a cannabis licence similar to a car rego. The advantage to this is the health funds and insurance companies would also have access to this list and adjust premiums accordingly. This would likely deter a lot of average punters who might otherwise been curious to try weed.

I'd just be happy if it was decriminalised with on the spot fines. Far more harm is done to especially young users by means of a conviction not their lungs.

I think you are underestimating the inherent laziness of your average pot head. I'd quite happily pay a premium so I didn't have to frig around with hydro set-up's, shit, I already do!

 

[Busty St Clare]

Hydro? Wash your fucking mouth out.