Doctors who pretend narcotics don't exist

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Yeah I've seen benzos tested for on standard urine screens, since some people find them to have recreational value. I'd stay away from them, especially ones with a long half life. Either that or get a legitimate script. Without coming off as a drug seeker.

 

[Cyc]

Well, if she asks I'll just say I went on a plane and got a couple from a friend for anxiety. I'm sure she won't judge that too harshly.

 

[ycktr]

Hey, thank you for the very informative post. Actually, I just did my urine screening the other day.

I wonder, the only thing in my system would be valium, as I do take it (non-prescribed) as needed. Would that show up, or be tested for by an initial doctor/patient urine test?

Depends. If was the 5-panel, no...10-panel test, yes (depending on how long ago you took the Valium of course)

Chances are, he gave you a 5-panel test (most use this protocol)

The larger issue, and forgive me if this comes across the wrong way, is that you are planning to take opiates while using unprescribed (undocumented) valium. Not a very safe choice IMHO. Your doctor will make choices about your opiate tx based on your pain needs and potential interactions with other medications. Because he doesn't know that you are taking Valium, he can't make an informed decision about your care. This is dangerous for both of you.

You didn't ask, but I'm going to merely suggest anyway; open the discussion with your doctor about potential interactions with valium. In keeping with the rules of bluelight, the only advice I can give you is to be honest about the situation. Again, most doctors that script pain meds are lied to daily. Imagine his relief to know that he is dealing with an opiate patient who is willing to be upfront and protect him from potential liability.

And I have to say...prepare for him to possibly discharge you as patient. If you signed a contract, part of that contracted stated that you would not take other medication without his knowledge or a prescription - ie. without taking into account your opiate tx. Now, if you haven't taken any valium since you signed the contract, you can approach the situation honestly and tell him that because you don't want to violate the contract in the future, you want to discuss the fact that valium has been necessary in the past.

Note: I do not mean to suggest that all opiate tx patients are liars or drug seeking.

 

[Cyc]

Thanks again, and welcome to BL. I hope you stick around.

 

[thujone]

I'm just putting things in perspective, that's all. The line between 'needed therapy' and 'luxury enhancement' is a always a very blurry one in medicine, especially when you take demographics and geography into consideration.

Very very true, also agree that most of Cyc's complaints don't warrant Oxy. Bottom line is, when you have pain that actually warrants Oxy, you're FLYING to the ER as fast as you can go not reading Redbook in the doctor's office until he gets around to you. Your GP is not about to prescribe opiates to someone who isn't already on a long-term regimen for chronic pain because they know that your ass would be in the ER if your pain was actually serious enough to warrant the knock out punch that only the most addictive drugs on the planet can provide. Or hey, if you'd RATHER be a dope addict, i'm sure there's a doctor unscrupulous enough to help you out.

 

[Ol' Morfy]

You know that when many doctors & nurses have aches & pains, they don't try to kill their livers with APAP/acetominophen, they don't try to kill themselves with NSAIDS, they don't bother seeing another doc and try to convince them their pain requieres an opiate analgesic.

They get whichever opiate is available to them and they take it.

Do all healthcare workers practice this? Surely no.

Do many, yes.

If hospitals ran ~weekly, or monthly urinalyses, and published the results, I think many of us would be in for a pleasant surprise.

O M

 

[ControlDenied]

yeh, but its not like everyone dies from acetominophen and NSAID.s only a tiny fraction of people who take them do.

also, opiates arent right for EVERY kind of ache or pain at all

 

[Tommyboy]

yeh, but its not like everyone dies from acetominophen and NSAID.s only a tiny fraction of people who take them do.

also, opiates arent right for EVERY kind of ache or pain at all

I would say that it is higher than a "tiny fraction of people" that use acetominophen that end up with liver disease, and I dont mean somebody who takes them once a month for a headache. There have been many headlining stories in the news recently about the alarming number of deaths related to liver disease caused by acetominophen (tylenol). So much to the point that the makers of vicodin and oxycodone are being pressured to make their products without the acetominophen in them.

 

[panic in paradise]

oh man...

i have a couple of valid auttoimmune chronic pain d/o's, and there is not one doc out of the many ive seen the past few years that will prescribe me narcs for more then 1 or 2 btls. i had one tell me that opioids and marinol are contraindicative while he looks at my disfigured MRI's CT's and X - Rays + bloodwork.

its a freaking terror of sleepless pain, and ive been waiting patiently for a looong time.

shit the other night i took a cab to the ER in thriving pain and got nothing but set up in the psych ward waiting for a social worker to tell them that im in a fury of pain and sleep dep, its situational. still no relief. a while before that, i was so out of it and delerious from pain and sleep dep. that i went in and the were going to give me a shot and a place to sleep. they came in with iv dilauded, i knew that would do nothing for no time, and asked if there was something that lasted lomger like a pill,, since the nurse insisted no iv drugs lasted longer then dillys. LOL.

so they gave me a 5mg perc and sent me out hunched over in pain at 5 am in to the 27 degree rain.

fuck

every doctor sends me to another for pain meds, now im going to a major university pain clinic, but in the meantime, be a good patient, and suffer like a feelingless animal.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

pIp, I'd have to see your whole medical history to say any more than this, but technically those docs who script you one bottle of narcs are following standard protocol. Opiates are advised against in chronic pain, because of limited efficacy, especially over time, and harsh rebound effect whenever they're stopped.

The doctors you're seeing are NOT following standard protocol, however, if they didn't refer you to the ample new treatment options that are being tried for chronic pain (one dose of ketamine in a psychiatrist's office, regular psychotherapy after that, and a low dose SSRI is one regimen that looks promising). I bet a lot of these programs, especially if they're in the trial stage, are willing to work something out for people who don't have insurance too, but you'd have to ask. Still, shame on your doc for not filling you in on this.

 

[panic in paradise]

i was on Humira a TNF blocker, that stopped working, cartiosteroids no go, methatrexate cant have due to cell mutation and sperm disfigurement, heavy NSAIDS, im supposed to avoid while on lithium, but i was desperate and took one any ways and that fukd me all up, i began a remicaid infusion but half way through that i developed pleurisy and have been having intense chest/rib cage pain, and have lost 40+lbs in less then 2 months since trying that lil combo.

the humira stopped working last time for more then 4-5 days and 900 a pop, im trying it again 3x a month, and it is quite apparent i need more then the tnf's. its common for people with similar d/os to be on long term opioid use, at least from what ive read for the past idk how long. especially duragesic patches, they have been proven very affective treating ankylosing spondylitis pain in the long term, tapering then raising the dosage levels over the course of years. the federal government has recently approved opiods for long term malignant pain, not only nerve pain but malignant pain.

ive tried and suffered through alternative treatments, the humira works to an extent and is outrageously expensive, the MM does as well, but only to an extent, i live in pain and am sick of jumping through hoops and abusing my body doing so.

i feel like a seeker and its ridicules sending me from one doc to another because they dont want to be the one prescribing me the meds, so hand him off. oh well, the pain clinic, thats their job, i just have to wait now for a response for an appointment.

but after saying all that, my d/os wouldnt be as progressed as they are if the doc's i saw many many years ago would of taken a closer look and seen inside with their own eyes at whats causing the pain, instead of sending me out the door with some pills and a week general diagnosis.

soooo. i just try and sum up to irony a bit, and stay interested in medicine and whats happening rather then fear it.

 

[rasgyle]

lol op: Tylenol and Hugs for Cancer

I've lived in Illinois and California. I have ADHD and GAD.

In Southern Illinois, they've consolidated all of the psychiatrists into one government-subsidized organization. Which makes appointments take months; additionally, these doctors refuse to prescribe stimulants to an adult for ADHD, even if the patient was prescribed Adderall by a reputable psych in CA.

Apparently, the problem is fairly widespread: Many doctors seem to think that ADD "goes away" the minute you turn 18. Even though studies show juveniles and adolescents have a greater than 50 percent chance of retaining attention deficit symptoms into adulthood.

I haven't had these problems in CA. Probably because you can just walk into a psych's office without a referral or insurance and say Hi, I want an appointment.

Of course, in CA, I'm a Prop 215 patient. So when you have medical marijuana regularly, everything else pales in comparison. Many current pharmaceutical solutions would be considered weak and unhealthy by many people if they had access to MMJ. It does so many positive things and doesn't have insane side effects. But I'm sure everyone knows marijuana is quite possibly a gift from God.

I experienced some damage to my knees once when a large object driven by a retard backed into them. I was in IL at the time. Went to the doctor (fees are higher here than CA too) and was prescribed codeine for the pain. Which makes me very nauseous. But the Dr. refused to prescribe anything better. "Better pain killers are addictive," he said. "Wellness is addictive" I countered. He did not give me anything better. So I traded pain for vomiting.

Love what all these laws and consolidations are doing to medicine. Maybe the OP isn't far off. Maybe soon, all doctors will be more like Dr. Phil.

 

[Coolio]

To psychiatrists, ADD often means you are a pain in the ass to your parents and teachers, not that you have a disorder.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Let me give you three examples recently of legitimate doctor visits I've had.

1.) Last summer I pulled a muscle in my back playing baseball. Walking was difficult, but I made it to the University clinic. I told him I was taking Aleve but it hurt my stomach and wasn't working. He felt around, and told me to continue taking Aleve. <--- Like he didn't even hear me.

Common experience, there are serious unpleasant effects for some people with NSAID's. I know two people who seriously can't use them, and doctors don't believe them.

2.) Last month I go in with a painful dry, non-productive cough. I tell the Dr. I'm taking Robatussin but it doesn't agree with me and fails to suppress the cough. The Dr. tells me to get rest and plenty of fluids. The obvious prescription would be for codeine or hydrocodone syrup. Doctor fails yet again.

The only time I got codeine in a cough syrup prescribed to me, I probably deserved IV hydromorphone.

3.) Finally, this week I find a family Dr. and tell her I'm experiencing tooth pain from an exposed nerve. I tell her I have a dentist appointment next month. She actually says, "Well next month is just around the corner" and ignores my pain.

ROFLCOPTER no it's not! If 1 month goes by quickly enough to say "it's just around the corner", you must live the most pointless, boring, unproductive life of anyone I've ever known. That's literally what I would have said to that dumb bitch.

If I was a doctor I would have given you a small/medium prescription for a low dose opiate like codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, etc.

These 3 examples all tell me that doctors are simply not prescribing pain medication for people who are... in... pain!?

In fact, I've never gotten a percocet prescription, even when I got my wisdom teeth pulled, got stiches in my nose from being in a fight, and stabbed myself (deep) in a kitchen accident and got stitches without any freezing.

I've NEVER been prescribed pain medication stronger than T3's no matter what my complaint is. Do you see this as being part of our culture? I mean, I almost feel guilty describing pain to a doctor because they either play it off, or become uncomfortable at the suggestion. It's not like I'm a junkie. These were valid medical concerns. I feel I should stop telling my physicians when I'm in pain.

I think it's becoming more trendy (for lack of a better term) for doctors to simply pretend narcotics don't exist. I call these doctors "homeopathic-lite" doctors because they refuse to use drugs to treat certain symptoms of their choosing.

Where do you see narcotics 20 years from now? Are we going to treat cancer patients with tylenol and hugs?

Just buy heroin if you don't find opiates addictive; problem solved. If you find opiates addictive, that's the problem. Whatever a doctor prescribes you will only last but for so long, and then you'll be in worse pain. That's why doctors don't want to prescribe real medication; they are afraid it'll be like a homeless cat/dog that won't stop begging them endlessly for more.

In reality, this is why LEGALIZING drugs is a GREAT alternative to not treating legitimate medical patients for pain, anxiety, or addiction management. 8)

Very very true, also agree that most of Cyc's complaints don't warrant Oxy. Bottom line is, when you have pain that actually warrants Oxy, you're FLYING to the ER as fast as you can go not reading Redbook in the doctor's office until he gets around to you. Your GP is not about to prescribe opiates to someone who isn't already on a long-term regimen for chronic pain because they know that your ass would be in the ER if your pain was actually serious enough to warrant the knock out punch that only the most addictive drugs on the planet can provide. Or hey, if you'd RATHER be a dope addict, i'm sure there's a doctor unscrupulous enough to help you out.

Opiates work for less severe pain too. Not everyone finds opiates to be addictive.

To psychiatrists, ADD often means you are a pain in the ass to your parents and teachers, not that you have a disorder.

I disagree entirely.

 

[NeedlessBeing]

As much as I love opiates I really wish the doctor didn't give them to me when I didn't really need them. It started me down a path I wish I didn't take...as much as I hate the fact some people who really need them aren't getting them, Advil does do the trick 95% of the time ESPECIALLY with dental issues, where it's twice as effective as opiates, imo...

 

[tamoz]

I know the frustration. having an uncompassionate doctor who doesnt want to tread the path of the DEA so they cant give pain medications for fear of losing their licence. my view is that i dont care if you are a heroin junkie, you should get the same medical treatment as any person in pain, not be judged because of stuff you do on your own time.

 

[Newbierock]

I Had dihydrocodeine (sp?) for an exposed nerve, did the trick brilliantly. And thats like the most hadcore painkiller we have over here, can't beleive in the land of oxycodone and hydromorphone a fucking dentists wouldn't give you even the tamest of tame painkillers.

And yeah, exposed nerves seriously hurt.

 

[Moral Decay]

Let me give you three examples recently of legitimate doctor visits I've had.

1.) Last summer I pulled a muscle in my back playing baseball. Walking was difficult, but I made it to the University clinic. I told him I was taking Aleve but it hurt my stomach and wasn't working. He felt around, and told me to continue taking Aleve. <--- Like he didn't even hear me.

2.) Last month I go in with a painful dry, non-productive cough. I tell the Dr. I'm taking Robatussin but it doesn't agree with me and fails to suppress the cough. The Dr. tells me to get rest and plenty of fluids. The obvious prescription would be for codeine or hydrocodone syrup. Doctor fails yet again.

3.) Finally, this week I find a family Dr. and tell her I'm experiencing tooth pain from an exposed nerve. I tell her I have a dentist appointment next month. She actually says, "Well next month is just around the corner" and ignores my pain.

These 3 examples all tell me that doctors are simply not prescribing pain medication for people who are... in... pain!?

In fact, I've never gotten a percocet prescription, even when I got my wisdom teeth pulled, got stiches in my nose from being in a fight, and stabbed myself (deep) in a kitchen accident and got stitches without any freezing.

I've NEVER been prescribed pain medication stronger than T3's no matter what my complaint is. Do you see this as being part of our culture? I mean, I almost feel guilty describing pain to a doctor because they either play it off, or become uncomfortable at the suggestion. It's not like I'm a junkie. These were valid medical concerns. I feel I should stop telling my physicians when I'm in pain.

I think it's becoming more trendy (for lack of a better term) for doctors to simply pretend narcotics don't exist. I call these doctors "homeopathic-lite" doctors because they refuse to use drugs to treat certain symptoms of their choosing.

Where do you see narcotics 20 years from now? Are we going to treat cancer patients with tylenol and hugs?

I know that in a perfect world your appearance should be irrelevant but, what do you look like? Do you go in with facial piercings, rock band t-shirts and torn jeans? Or do you go in looking like you just came from a job with a professional atmosphere or in business casual attire?

Because sad to say it really does matter. You should try getting a new doctor and before you go in there looking like a stoner, try to establish a relationship with them so that they can see that you are not just a drug seeking burn-out.

 

[Kurrupt]

Where do you see narcotics 20 years from now? Are we going to treat cancer patients with tylenol and hugs?

I believe in 20 years, maybe even 10, who knows, there will be drugs available that can provide equal analgesia as strong opioids minus dependence/addiction and other possible negative side-effects. The drugs being available to the public is another thing, think of all the money pharm companies would lose if opioids were ever phased out... crazy.

 

[fatstep]

I just encountered one yesterday who was a dickhead. I have a grade 3 mcl tear with mris to support and the orthopedist wouldnt even give me 5mg oxy or hydro or even tramadol when the er gave me 40 hydro 10s just to last a week. He told me only ibuprofen would work which is bullshit as Ive been taking the 800s 3-4 times a day. I fully believe I require pain medicine as I cant even walk and I have to get a cadaver tendon put in during surgery in 3 weeks. You better believe he will not be doing my surgery, my mom's had her acl tore at grade 3 and she required pain medicine for almost 4 months with a longer script running for breakthrough pain.