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Are there any psychedelics thats are strong and are not tryptamines and phenylamines?

Visionary_Kpsycho

Visionary_Kpsycho

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Are there any psychedelics thats are strong and are not tryptamines and phenylamines and lysergamides? If so can someone post some that are, just wondering? Seems like every one if tryps or phens or lyser. But anything besides that?
 
Yeah, I heard Salvinorin B, lasts for 1-3 hours and is more potent then A. :O:O

I could not picture being on salvia for 3 hours, i would not be the same person when the effects wore off lol.
 
if you haven't read at least a little blurb about something either here or on wikipedia, then it probably doesn't exist yet. why don't you join Nichol's crew and go searching for new compounds? :)

the simple fact of the matter is-- our current understanding of the classic psychedelic is that it must be an agonist on the 5HT2a receptor subtype. this receptor has a very specific binding site that requires a certain shape of molecule with certain electronic and steric properties in order to activate the receptor. just read through pihkal and tihkal and you will see that the phens and trypts are very sensitive to modifications. add one carbon here, you might get 5x increase in potency. add another carbon on that same chain, and you get 20x decrease in potency.

so we can't just start with a random skeleton and hope it works-- the science of these research drugs is very much a shot in the dark. the discovery of LSD-25 being super-potent was an amazing moment of serendipity, as there is no way we could predict its activity based on what we know about DMT, psilocin, or mescaline.

the current study is being done in n-benzyl phenethylamine analogs (25I-NBOMe) and conformationally-restrained analogs thereof (2CBCB). there might be something to discover in the piperazine family, but so far it looks like a dead end.

take some chem/biochem courses :)
 
^^DXM is pretty trippy. I know we could have a whole discussion as to whether its an actual "psychedelic" but its actually a morphine derivative, so definitely not a phen, tryp, or lsy. Ketamine and PCP too.
 
rincewindrocks said:
^^DXM is pretty trippy. I know we could have a whole discussion as to whether its an actual "psychedelic" but its actually a morphine derivative, so definitely not a phen, tryp, or lsy. Ketamine and PCP too.
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Ketamine, PCP, and DXM are disassociatives, not psychedelics. Although, they can cause hallucinations.
 
that brings us back to the original question-- if you are asking about 5HT2a psychedelics, then you are strictly speaking about the tryptamines and phenethylamines found in the works of shulgin et al.
 
ya why not?
i personally use dissociatives to get fucked up constantly rather than explore my mind, and there's tons of other k/dust/dex-fiends out there, but that doesn't make them not psychedelic.

i'd say dissociatives, salvia, and nitrous.

piperazines although i can't vouch for them as i haven't tried them. someone correct me if piperazines are phenylethylamines or whatever.

amanita muscaria is considered psychedelic by some people, not me though.
 
I have very little technical knowledge of chemistry nomenclature, but my minute and a half of internet research on this subject leads me to think it depends on how loosely "tryptamine" is defined. It looks like some people consider LSD, ibogaine, and yohimbine tryptamines even though they have substantial structural differences compared to DMT and company. Ibogaine is a weak 5-HT2a agonist that causes psychedelic effects and it's a really odd duck. Looks like Shulgin thinks it's a tryptamine, too, though.
 
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Are there any psychedelics thats are strong and are not tryptamines and phenylamines and lysergamides? If so can someone post some that are, just wondering? Seems like every one if tryps or phens or lyser. But anything besides that?
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As I posted in the other thread, quipazine is a reasonably selective 5ht-2a agonist, and is not a phenethylamine or tryptamine. However, it also hits 5ht-3, so it will cause nausea, and you're pobably better off with an analog, some other pyrimidine-piperazine. TFMPP also hits 5ht-2a, but it moreso hits 5ht-2c and causes really bad anxiety (it's so bad, they even decided not to schedule it!).

Also, several indazolethylamines hit the 5-ht2A receptor, see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AL-34662
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AL-38022A

and have been found to substitute for DOM et al in rats.

whoremoaning said:
How about Salvia/Salvinorin A?

I think that's pretty unique :)
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Technically, that's a dissociative. :p

Why are dissociatives not psychedelic?
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"Psychedelic" usually refers to a rather specific pattern of action that involves increased "novelty reactions" and pretty much always involves the serotonin-2 receptor subtype, especially 5-ht2a. Things that previously appeared mundane will begin to seem interesting, etc. Nichols mentions the effects here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knrZ4YQV47M

Most dissociatives (loosely defined as "something that reduces signals to the conscious mind") make you less interested in the real world (with the exception of wanting to listen to Sigur Ros for hours on end) and produce anesthetic effects. And of course, deliriants are those dissociatives strong enough to make you forget you're hallucinating (all are antagonists of muscarinic acetylcholine receptors; acetylcholine is the king of neurotransmitters).

All three, plus cannabinoids, constitute the "hallucinogens". Or at least that's how I've always understood it.
 
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Visionary_Kpsycho said:
Are there any psychedelics thats are strong and are not tryptamines and phenylamines and lysergamides? If so can someone post some that are, just wondering? Seems like every one if tryps or phens or lyser. But anything besides that?
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If you mind me asking, no need to answer.. but why not tryptamines/phenyl's
 
The article says AL-34662 doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, so does that really count? AL-38022A however sounds like it fits the bill.

EDIT: Apparently it's probably really cardiotoxic due to high 5-HT2b affinity.
 
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psood0nym said:
The article says AL-34662 doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, so does that really count? AL-38022A however sounds like it fits the bill.

EDIT: Apparently it's probably really cardiotoxic due to high 5-HT2b affinity.
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AL-34662 doesn't, but the three analogs shown at the bottom of the article do cross the barrier, so I figured the link was worth posting. Also, you can apparently replace the indole nitrogen of the tryptamines with oxygen (or theoretically sulfur):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimemebfe

Also, 5-ht1a activity is good because it means less anxiety. I imagine the thiophene analog could also be active. In general, some completely unrelated compounds can also be psychedelic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RH-34
 
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atara said:
"Psychedelic" usually refers to a rather specific pattern of action that involves increased "novelty reactions" and pretty much always involves the serotonin-2 receptor subtype, especially 5-ht2a.
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To be an agonist of 5-HT2a is not necessarily the definition of psychedelic, which predates even the discovery of serotonin as a neurotransmitter. Your assumption would also of course include serotonin as a Psychedelic substance, which it is not.

Quoting from Wikipedia the definition of a Psychedelic:

"The term psychedelic is derived from the Greek words ψυχή (psyche, "soul") and δηλείν (delein, "to manifest"), translating to "mind-manifesting". A psychedelic experience is characterized by the perception of aspects of one's mind previously unknown, or by the creative exuberance of the mind liberated from its ostensibly ordinary fetters.
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Therefore I would argue that most cannabinoids, even synthetic ones, would couple with others already mentioned (e.g, dissociatives as Salvia) as Psychedelics. JWH-018 and JHW-073, in particular, have been referred by many users as having similar effects as oral DMT with a MAOI
 
yea I was wondering if dissociatives actually hit that 5ht-2 receptor because although a different trip are definitely psychedelic to me.
 
Rorthron said:
To be an agonist of 5-HT2a is not necessarily the definition of psychedelic, which predates even the discovery of serotonin as a neurotransmitter. Your assumption would also of course include serotonin as a Psychedelic substance, which it is not.

Quoting from Wikipedia the definition of a Psychedelic:



Therefore I would argue that most cannabinoids, even synthetic ones, would couple with others already mentioned (e.g, dissociatives as Salvia) as Psychedelics. JWH-018 and JHW-073, in particular, have been referred by many users as having similar effects as oral DMT with a MAOI
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really?
 
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