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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

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Everyone is different man but I have a similar tolerance and I never need more than 4 mgs for 24 hours. The first day is usually the only day I need 4 to 6 mgs total. By day 7 I am down to 1mg per day. I understand you don't have any more sub right now, that sucks. I emphasized "whole pill" because I would think you could make 8 mgs last much longer, even with your tolerance. Bube is a very very potent opiate. If you use the search engine, you will see some people say that "less is more," with bube. Try insufflating next time. It has a higher availability intra-nasally and hits much faster than sublingual. The faster onset really helps titration.

When you are just starting out it's hard to know how much to take and and when to take more, especially when it takes about 100 minutes to really start working. Next time maybe take 2 mgs sublingual and then blow 1 mg lines every 30 minutes or so until you feel good. Once you get past day 2 it will be easy to taper fast down to a much lower dose.

I actually don't have any personal experience with methadone. I have read plenty though and have heard plenty from other people. I recommend you check out the mega thread here and methadone FAQ.

To answer your question though, common sense should be enough. Once you know you are in withdrawl again, go ahead and take your methadone. People act like suboxone is some mystery and that there is some formula out there for when it is ok to take other drugs before or after. All you have to do is listen to your body. If you are starting to experience withdrawl symptoms, go ahead and take the sub. If you already took sub and then want to get high with a full mu agonist, the same rule basically applies. If the sub is still holding you, it will take much higher dose of H or whatever to get you high. Once withdrawl starts setting in, your receptors are free and you can get high again.

Your plan to take your methadone between 24 and 36 hours from your sub dose should be fine but no one here will be able to tell you for sure. If you aren't in WD then save it. Conversely, if you wake up in the middle of the night drenched in sweat and freezing cold running to the loo to shit chocolate soup.....probably not gonna be a waste to take the methadone.

Read up as much as you can on all the drugs you take, including suboxone and methadone. Use that knowledge and listen to your body. Withdrawl sucks man. Check out the guide to narcotic withdrawl here, it's a great resource. In case you didn't know, loperamide (immodium) is an opiate. If you have nothing else, given your tolerance I would say pop like 50 mgs, take some nuquil/dyphenhydramine/benzos and try and get some sleep.

Best of luck dude.
 
Buprenorphine -> Methadone is easier than going from Methadone -> Buprenoprhine.

I don't know how long exactly you will have to wait, but you should know as an experienced opiate user - just wait for full WD to set in. If you wait as long as possible, you'll get the most relief out of the buprenorphine then the methadone.

Try taking 2mg at a time, and see if you really need all 8mg.
 
i'll definitely take less next time and go from there, honestly just assumed to take the whole damn thing...thanks guys8)
 
I did the methadone > bupe "switch" and didn't have anywhere near the amount of trouble I expected. When I got the boot from the clinic, I had a pretty fair stockpile of the 40mg methadose wafers. I had tapered down to 90-120mg/day which was FAR from what most online recommendations said was preferred. My first bupe script was for 16mg/day, which I immediately started in on.

While acclimating to bupe, I continued to supplement with 40mg methadose kickers. I was pretty disoriented a couple days, but within a week I was pretty stable. I would NEVER recommend that anyone else try this. For an addict (at least this addict) DIY crossovers and/or detoxes aren't destined to be pretty!
 
Hello guys.. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on something. I have been on suboxone (very small doses ~.4-.8mg / day) for a while now, probably a year, but only for 2 months at these low doses. So I took methadone on tuesday and wedsday. I think i took about 20 mg each day, but it was liquid methadone so I'm not 100% sure. So anyway, the last time I dosed was wedsday around 4 PM (eastern) and t is now saturday at 130 pm, and for some reason I am still not in w/d. Is there any reason for this? its been almost 72 hrs.. is it the small dose of suboxone i take? or is it maybe b/c i took methadone 2 days in a row?? any feedback would be appreciated... basically im waiting for when i can take my sub bc i dont want to go into precip. w/d so i want to wait until i had some w/d before taking the suboxone.
 
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^^anyone have any thoughts on this?? Its been over 72 hrs, and I feel fine (for the most part) .. Is it because my tolerance and/or dose is so low?
 
if you feel fine then why so worried? just be patient because patience will be rewarded. who knows maybe at .4mg of sub a day maybe your body might be able to jump off all the way? not necessarily but maybe, its just a thought but definatly continue to wait if you are still gonna take the bupe

i think it was staff writer who said she waited 6 days from transdermal fent n still had precip WD so i would wait until sickness, good luck
 
BeEasy said:
Hello guys.. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on something. I have been on suboxone (very small doses ~.4-.8mg / day) for a while now, probably a year, but only for 2 months at these low doses. So I took methadone on tuesday and wedsday. I think i took about 20 mg each day, but it was liquid methadone so I'm not 100% sure. So anyway, the last time I dosed was wedsday around 4 PM (eastern) and t is now saturday at 130 pm, and for some reason I am still not in w/d. Is there any reason for this? its been almost 72 hrs.. is it the small dose of suboxone i take? or is it maybe b/c i took methadone 2 days in a row?? any feedback would be appreciated... basically im waiting for when i can take my sub bc i dont want to go into precip. w/d so i want to wait until i had some w/d before taking the suboxone.
Click to expand...

It took me a good three to four days to really feel crappy after dropping my last 0.2 of bupe/ day (insuffulated). I was taking 0.5mg clonazepam/ day as well at the time, so it really affected me more than 0.2mg bupe usually would... Take my experience with that in mind.
 
Suboxone WD...Dones?

I've been taking .5mg-.75mg a day (usually broken up morning/noon/nite)
I know its not a big amount, but I've taken it for awhile and when I try to stop I go through a reallly longgg withdrawal. Ive tried 3 times now and make it about a week.

My idea is this... Can I take methadone to help ease withdrawal (or atleast give me a night to sleep) with out restarting the whole ordeal?

My intention is to take a small amount of Methadone (5-10mg) on the 3-4th day of WD. I'll get some sleep and wait another few days, repeat as needed.

What say you?
 
By the way Cap_Heroin , since we seem to be pretty much on the same boat so to speak ,what is it you have to say about this rumour regarding St. John's wort somehow potentiating Buprenorphine?
 
That's the opposite of what you want to do IMO. Methadone is a lot stronger than buprenorphine, most people go from mdone to bupe.

A better plan would be to find something shorter acting. Codeine, morphine, OC, whatever else, and use sparingly. Codeine/hydrocodone/DHC (depending on your geographics and what's available) would be what I would choose, as it's one of the weaker opioids available.

Another option would be to use a low dose of bupe every 3-4 days, when it starts getting uncomfortable.

I really feel using methadone, even in low doses would be very counterproductive.. but again, that's just my opinion.

If getting sleep's the hardest part of your kick, i'd try to find some benzos, sleep aid's, or hit up the doctor and explain the problem.
 
I tried oxy during my last attempt. It was ok, but expensive. I was leaning towards methadone because of it's long half life and being inexpensive.

Is your concern that I will get addicted to the methadone or that it will reset my WD's?

Edit...

Wanted to add that the lack of sleep, duration of WD, and back and forth nature of it is what makes it VERY hard for me. I'd rather go through Oxy or Heroin WD for a few days and be done.

Edit 2

Also should let you know that I'm Severely depressed. My daughter died a year ago and every time I go through WD it feels like I'm right back to that day.
 
fistful_of_needles said:
By the way Cap_Heroin , since we seem to be pretty much on the same boat so to speak ,what is it you have to say about this rumour regarding St. John's wort somehow potentiating Buprenorphine?
Click to expand...

I have actually never tried it.

I have tried WGFJ, which apparently slows down buprenorphine's metablization, elongating the experience slightly. I hear St John's Wort & buprenorphine causes the metabolization to speed up - meaning you get more nor-buprenorphine - hence better mu agonism.

I don't know if that's "for sure" to be honest, I only saw one post which supported this idea and I couldn't really...find it again.

I think most drugs potentiate buprenorphine nicely (depending on the direction you want to take it in). For example, benzos or OTC antihistamines may help increase the depressant/sedation side of the experience, whereas quality stimulants can help increase the stimulant properties of buprenorphine. I have found all psychedelics I have tried go well together with buprenorphine. The only psychedelic I haven't had with buprenorphine that I have had without it would probably be salvia.
 
have you considered starting on anti-depressants since you're depressed? and are you using any otc drugs to help you through the wd like immodium and nsaids, antihistamines? what about benzos and muscle relaxants? it sounds like you're having trouble getting through the PAWS - post acute withdrawal symptoms which are things like depression, anxiety, cravings etc. there isn't a miracle cure for PAWS unfortunately. what may work for one person may not for the next.

using methadone would be counter-productive, the opposite way to go.

you could possibly go the way that foul play mentioned and use shorter acting full agonists to help ease things but that's likely to only draw things out further as well and will likely make you crave even more. relapse would be likely for me at least.

have you spoken to your doctor about this? whats his opinion on thngs? or are you using from street connects?

im sorry to hear about your daughter:(
 
i too am sorry for your loss :(
the death of my fiance started my heavy oxy usage.....

anyways to answer your question, don't do the 'done man.........

i echo the sentiment of just taking a very small bupe dose every like 3 or 4 days (instead of a daily dose)...doing a long sub taper like this will work. i would advise against using full agonists to get off bupe - risk of relapse is too great....and besides, isn't that why we're all on bupe in the first place?? ;)

the reason i advise against methadone: First off, you can abuse it, where you cant abuse suboxone to get high, and secondly, you think suboxone wd's suck? well wait till u run outta methadone!
 
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Hi guys I got a quick question that can hopefully be answered...

I'm trying to quit dope again for awhile with the aid of subs. I been doing about .4-.6g's of powder a day IV'd. I have 6 8mg suboxones, clonidine, and immodium to help the impending withdrawal. My questions are:

1. I plan on taking the first sub tommorrow when i start to feel w/ds coming on. Should I start with 2mg sublingually then wait and see if that holds me then keep raising by 2mg if it doesn't? Is that a good way to measure? If not, how would you suggest?

2. How long should a sub taper with only 6 subs generally last so by the end of it Im not sick from dope or the subs?

3. Lets say my taper lasts 7 days, but day 7 when I run out of subs will i wake up sick or will I be withdrawal free? I don't quite understand how by taking suboxone (an opiate) to taper down from another opiate like heroin that by the time you stop there's no w/ds to expereince at all? I hope that makes sense. I would just like to hear how by the end of a sub taper people are somehow w/d free?

4. Will the clonidine and immodium even be needed during the taper? (In ur experiences?)

Thanks and hope to get a reply by tommorrow so i can start this taper off with some solid info and hopefully a new life to follow afterward!
 
Bupe Withdrawal

Hi Guys,

I've experimented before with seeing how long I'd have to abstain from dosing (at 28mg) before I could get down with oxy's. After three days it was barely worth the ordeal, and the best part was getting back on the bupe, which got me fucking high as piss. I know that didn't really even make sense.

The other day, by inadvertence, I forgot to dose. I'm a bit bored and a bit of a dipshit so I thought I'd see how long it takes to go into withdrawal. But this time my last dose (almost 72 hrs ago) was only 16mg.

Also I have some codeine tablets. Would being on bupe for like almost a year have reduced my tolerance for full opiates like codeine such that they'd be worth a go? Also I'm on 4-5 valiums (5mg) a day atm and feel pretty ok atm.

What do people think?

S
 
I agree almost entirely with what's been said above - it's all very good advice.

'InTheZone614' sugggested taking a small amount of bupe every few days.

And the notion of getting on the heavy ones to stop using a relatively weaker one seems counterintuitive, although I do understand why you'd ask the question.

I think the way to go is symptomatic relief. Get a shitload of benzos, ideally diazepam so you don't develop another addiction, and all the other stuff like immodium. Also, although this may sound stupid, you could even try to cut your dose in half again.

But I really reckon with benzos and like, sleeping tablets or antipsychotics like seroquel, you can do it. I think there's been given a wealth of good advice in this thread.
 
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