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DOI Measuring problem

RhythmSpring

RhythmSpring

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Jun 19, 2008
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I'm having a problem with measuring my DOI: I don't have a scale. Nor can I afford one. The typical dose, they say, is about 1.5-3mg. I intend to take even smaller sub-tripping doses for reasons irrelevant here. So I need some way to measure out .1s of mgs.

Is there ANY safe way to eyeball?
If not, how do you suggest I go about dividing up proper doses?

PLURAL
(peace love unity respect and love)
 
WHOA!!! 8o

DO NOT eyeball a DOx 8(

Ideally you do it by scale and them liquid measurement. I wouldn't measure a DOx dose straight off the scale like I do with 10+mg chemicals. You need a scale to measure a large amount (say 100mg) and then dissolve it in 10mL of vodka. That way it's a 10mg/mL solution and you can use an oral syringe to measure a dose. Every 0.01CC (mL) is 0.1mg.

You could put 100mg in 100mL for a 1mg/mL solution that'll make it easier to measure sub-milligram doses. Every 0.1CC (mL) would be 0.1mg.

Often vendors weigh a very specific amount in the bag. ie. If the bag says 500mg it often is exactly 500mg.

BUT (this is a BIG "but") vendors are sometimes sloppy. See 2C-B-fly sticky thread for an example of the danger of this kind of sloppyness. Anyways if your chemical isn't the exact weight that's printed on the bag you won't get the dose you think your getting and you might be getting more, maybe not "overdose" territory but it's possible. I certainly wouldn't risk it.

Bottom line: To play this game you need to bite the bullet and get yourself a scale. You'll be glad you did; they come in very handy. :)
 
PepperSocks said:
WHOA!!! 8o

DO NOT eyeball a DOx 8(
Click to expand...
yessir.

PepperSocks said:
Ideally you do it by scale and them liquid measurement. I wouldn't measure a DOx dose straight off the scale like I do with 10+mg chemicals. You need a scale to measure a large amount (say 100mg) and then dissolve it in 10mL of vodka. That way it's a 10mg/mL solution and you can use an oral syringe to measure a dose. Every 0.01CC (mL) is 0.1mg.
Click to expand...
Are oral syringes available in the pharmacy? Is that the same as a dropper?
Why does the solvent have to be vodka? Can it be water instead?

PepperSocks said:
You could put 100mg in 100mL for a 1mg/mL solution that'll make it easier to measure sub-milligram doses. Every 0.1CC (mL) would be 0.1mg.

Often vendors weigh a very specific amount in the bag. ie. If the bag says 500mg it often is exactly 500mg.

BUT (this is a BIG "but") vendors are sometimes sloppy. See 2C-B-fly sticky thread for an example of the danger of this kind of sloppyness. Anyways if your chemical isn't the exact weight that's printed on the bag you won't get the dose you think your getting and you might be getting more, maybe not "overdose" territory but it's possible. I certainly wouldn't risk it.

Bottom line: To play this game you need to bite the bullet and get yourself a scale. You'll be glad you did; they come in very handy. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks. Okay. Biting the bullet would require me to have hundreds of dollars that I don't have. I'm a broke student.
So I still need to find some sort of scale... Does anybody have any experience being sneaky and using a scale in a chem lab on campus?
 
RhythmSpring said:
Are oral syringes available in the pharmacy? Is that the same as a dropper?
Why does the solvent have to be vodka? Can it be water instead?
Click to expand...

Yep you can get them at the pharmacy. No suspicion at all.

It can be water. If you plan on plugging, make sure to only use water. 40% Vodka is commonly used because it preserves the chemical longer.

Thanks. Okay. Biting the bullet would require me to have hundreds of dollars that I don't have. I'm a broke student.
So I still need to find some sort of scale... Does anybody have any experience being sneaky and using a scale in a chem lab on campus?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Mine's $30 8)

I'll admit; it isn't anything fancy or solid but it does the trick and is pretty accurate form what I can tell. It's the "AWS DIA-10" you can get them cheap on eBay. Check out the B&D scale thread for more info (tripping right now and i know you can find it, so no linky ;))

You can use an analytical balance if you feel safe that you can use it without anyone seeing you or caring that you're using it. It might help to also be weighing something pertaining to an experiment at the same time so you have story fodder. :)
 
Thanks!
Although, I did just look up that model on ebay, and it's 50 dollars, and it's still only a mg scale. I need at least a .01 mg scale, aka a .0001 gram scale. I need to be able to measure increments *within* one milligram.
 
Pepper answered it very thoroughly for you. Heed his warnings with great care since if normal chemical handling does not tolerate big mistakes DOX are even more unforgiving. If you have ever tasted one of them you might notice the great effect they have on the body, you can't afford to get involved with these compounds without the proper equipment. It's that simple. Anyways if you can permit the expenses for these chemicals you can also pay for the equipment. Realizing what could happen to your health if you take a cheapskate shortcut you should know that a scale can't be missed, otherwise you are not fit to deal with the compounds to begin with.
I trust you understand! :)

Good work Pepper, I don't think you sock at all FWIW <3
 
Mix it with distilled water.
Even Jewlery scales cannot measure accuratley to 0.001g, There is to much activity in the atmosphere.
I've done this many times.
Go to CVS and ask for a 1mm oral syringe. They're free!
I'll let you do the math.
If you need any help just PM me
 
Why do you say that, distilled water can spoil (as in grow mold and bacteria), you need at least 20% alcohol to be sure of longer conservation.

What you say about the jewelry scales is kind of true, by that I mean if you are trying to measure a substance that allows you to be a little off (even though I know a couple of people that use one of those with success) I think you're fine.
But weighing only 1 mg won't work you can forget about that.

If you use liquid measurement and have more than like 10-20 mg of DOX at your disposal (lets say 50-100 is ok) then jewelry scales will do IMO.
That is, IF you minimize draft and other atmospheric activity like the hoff bomb says.

With like 50 mg I think that if you tare with some extra base-weight (scales dont weigh well when empty, and around 0 mg) the deviation will not make enough difference to pose a real problem. Scientific research would be compromised because your values have a margin of error but it will not be dangerous IMO when using proper liquid measurement.

Haha I always liked your pic hoff bomb, would be funny if youd pm me a larger size I have always been curious about the detail it looks hilarious for some reason.
 
RhythmSpring said:
Thanks!
Although, I did just look up that model on ebay, and it's 50 dollars, and it's still only a mg scale. I need at least a .01 mg scale, aka a .0001 gram scale. I need to be able to measure increments *within* one milligram.
Click to expand...

Let me just reiterate what other have said (=D) that while you do need to measure said increments, you shouldn't use a scale to do it. Weigh out a larger quantity and dissolve it.
 
Yep yep yep. I made a mistake. The current procedure goes as follows:

weigh 50mg or 100mg or however much I have of DOI:

dissolve it in 100mL of liquid of choice.

dose according to mg/mL with oral syringe.

One last question. Will it actually dissolve, or will the powder just float around in the water? Is water or alcohol a better solvent in that case (aside from conservation. If it lasts longer than half a year, I'll be fine.)
 
Sounds fine, though with DOx being active in the sub-mg range, you might find an actual insulin syringe to be more useful (and cheaper heh).
 
I'm also curious as to the solubility of this compound (and DOC) in water vs alcohol.

I know it's soluble in both... but would it be more soluble in alcohol or water?
 
Solipsis said:
Why do you say that, distilled water can spoil (as in grow mold and bacteria), you need at least 20% alcohol to be sure of longer conservation.

What you say about the jewelry scales is kind of true, by that I mean if you are trying to measure a substance that allows you to be a little off (even though I know a couple of people that use one of those with success) I think you're fine.
But weighing only 1 mg won't work you can forget about that.

If you use liquid measurement and have more than like 10-20 mg of DOX at your disposal (lets say 50-100 is ok) then jewelry scales will do IMO.
That is, IF you minimize draft and other atmospheric activity like the hoff bomb says.

With like 50 mg I think that if you tare with some extra base-weight (scales dont weigh well when empty, and around 0 mg) the deviation will not make enough difference to pose a real problem. Scientific research would be compromised because your values have a margin of error but it will not be dangerous IMO when using proper liquid measurement.

Haha I always liked your pic hoff bomb, would be funny if youd pm me a larger size I have always been curious about the detail it looks hilarious for some reason.
Click to expand...


Oh. so that's why I always had those chunks in my water. heh


And to answer your question. Just swirl it around and let it sit for about an hour. It will dissolve.
 
The solubility of DOI hydrochloride in H2O is 10 mg/ml, and in ethanol 2 mg/ml.
The solubility of DOB hydrochloride in H2O is approximately 30 mg/ml.

Thats all the info I can dig up in a couple minutes but it seems water is still better.
 
Last edited:
wow! Shocked at the difference in solubility between DOB and DOI! Any other information is appreciated.... Thanks for looking that up Solipsis.... do you have a source you get this information from or do you just use google?
 
Just google and a Ouija board ;)

Mind you this comes from 2 different sources, the DOB value is what I calculated from max molarity (100 mM = 31 mg/ml to be exact) and comes from some chem site. The DOI values come from sigma aldrich documentation.
 
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