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stressed san pedro creating more mescaline?

daysonatrain

daysonatrain

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Feb 6, 2009
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just had an interesting thought and wondered if anyone out there had any information. from past reading (cant remember where, so i could be way off on this) phallaris grass produces higher concentrations of dmt when it is stressed. apparently dmt is a chemical (at least in this case) that jumps in production when the plant is nearing death.

would this apply to mescaline in cactus as well? if i were to stop watering my cactus for some time and stress the plant would it in turn produce more mescaline?

just an idea i had, not sure if there is any validity to it.

(mods, not sure if this would be better suited to bdd or add)
 
i've heard of it before. never done a control experiment with some cactus of the same specimen tho.


for what it's worth, the most potent varieties I've had were grown under 100% optimal conditions. That is, full sun, but under a shade netting, producing a very dark rich green color. I did give them full sun exposure 1-2 weeks before hand, however.

I notice the more un-filtered sun a cactus has, the larger the spines. spines are another part of their defense mechanism, so interpret that how you wish.
 
hmm, interesting.

you mean you have heard of this with san pedro or with other plants?

personally it seems like the best course (if this theory is true) would be to grow the plant in the most optimal of settings and close to when you were ready to eat it, then stress the plant.
 
It would be strange for a plant to put energy into producing something unnecessary, especially if it was dying of thirst. DMT might be an unintended byproduct of something else, but mescaline, I think, is a deterrent. If mescaline is produced by cacti as a chemical deterrent to predators, and its production can be efficiently regulated by the plant according to some predator detection system, then shouldn't "stressing" the plant to generate more mescaline involve simulated predation (put a few holes in its surface like some rodents nibbling) instead of denying it water? I would guess that more rain equals more predators equals more mescaline if anything, though I doubt more water is the mechanism that sets things off. Rather, more toxin should be produced when something more clearly indicative of predation occurs, like tying it to the process involved in the formation of scars or something. I don't know much about botany, but these cacti didn't last as long as they have because they're sloppy about how they use their resources.

EDIT: I think for this theory to work you just need to regularly simulate predation in way that doesn't measurably detract from the cacti's health. Once the mescaline is made, it's not going anywhere, so the longer the cactus lives on this regime the better.
 
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daysonatrain said:
hmm, interesting.

you mean you have heard of this with san pedro or with other plants?

personally it seems like the best course (if this theory is true) would be to grow the plant in the most optimal of settings and close to when you were ready to eat it, then stress the plant.
Click to expand...

yea i was talking about san pedro. i know people that keep cuttings in a closet for a few months before.....they clearly have the patience of the gods, i would never do that. I dunno, i like to think that plants have a spirit, like other living things, and sticking it in a dark closet for months seems insulting!!:D

the way i look at it: a healthy cactus, healthy defense mechanisms.

and i think the purpose of holding back on watering is to reduce the water volume contained in the flesh. which may or may not make it produce more mesc, but definitely will give you more per weight.
 
psood0nym said:
but mescaline, I think, is a deterrent. If mescaline is produced by cacti as a chemical deterrent to predators
Click to expand...

No, if mescaline was a deterrant it would be present in much higher quantities in young vulnerable plants. It's the oldest, least vulnerable cacti which contain the most mescaline.
 
yes, i was also curious about this^

it doesnt seem like mescaline is a very good deterrant for san pedro.
 
jam uh weezy said:
yea i was talking about san pedro. i know people that keep cuttings in a closet for a few months before.....they clearly have the patience of the gods, i would never do that. I dunno, i like to think that plants have a spirit, like other living things, and sticking it in a dark closet for months seems insulting!!:D

the way i look at it: a healthy cactus, healthy defense mechanisms.

and i think the purpose of holding back on watering is to reduce the water volume contained in the flesh. which may or may not make it produce more mesc, but definitely will give you more per weight.
Click to expand...

ahh, another question i had... the cuttings can last quite a time just stores in darkness? i have around 26 inches left and wasnt sure if i should at least freeze them.
 
Ismene said:
No, if mescaline was a deterrant it would be present in much higher quantities in young vulnerable plants. It's the oldest, least vulnerable cacti which contain the most mescaline.
Click to expand...
This is where my knowing nothing about botany might play in. Still, couldn't it be that the cost/benefit of using metabolic energy to produce alkaloids at an early stage weighs in favor of say, producing thicker skin to keep out fungal infections or whatever, and that mescaline only becomes an adaptive advantage later? Mescaline production could of course have other advantages or be an inevitable byproduct of something else, I've just read that the traditionally understood purpose of plant alkaloids is to function as "chemical weapons" against other organisms. Also, even if mescaline is a metabolic byproduct and not a direct deterrent in San Pedro, it may be the byproduct of some process involving the production of other alkaloids that do function primarily as predatory deterrents and that, naturally, are increased in reaction to indications of predation (so simulating predation could still have an indirect affect on increases of mescaline). I have definitely read that keeping the cactus out of the sun will make the skin darker/have more alkaloids, though.
 
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daysonatrain said:
ahh, another question i had... the cuttings can last quite a time just stores in darkness? i have around 26 inches left and wasnt sure if i should at least freeze them.
Click to expand...

as long as the cut heals cleanly, and there is no mold. they will probably survive over a year in non-growable conditions. why anyone would want to do this, i don't know.
 
i've also read that stressing trich species cacti was effective to a certain degree, don't know if there's any scientific literature on the subject though. I believe I've also read that injecting them with l-dopa and/or dopamine will increase potency
 
Whats the verdict on a yellowish green sandy p?

Because Im in Peru and they grow all over the place. I've seen this one thats quite fat, probably 5 inches, and about 2.5 feet tall. Real log. But hes kinda yellowed. Its sitting next to a 8 foot one thats almost kinda turned to a sand color, like its dying.

I just wonder if the yellowing is a bad sign.

there are, for the record yummy lookin green ones nearby also. Just not as fat. Or as easy to hack.
 
^damn your lucky

do naturally grown cacti contain less mescaline than nursery grown? ive heard this but not sure if its true.
 
This is a somewhat universal phenomenon in DMT production.



For example; the human brain synthesizes and releases MASSIVE amounts of DMT just before death, often causing the 'near-death-experiences' that many people reports.


The spirit molecule is a very interesting thing.
 
I've read that stabbing the cactus with a needle will stimulate mescaline production. The idea is that mescaline is produced to kill insects, so simulating those conditions may well lead to more mescaline.
 
I'm in Canada and grow a couple peruvian torch cacti.

They definitely get less than optimal growing conditions. I put them outside in full sun during the summer and bring them in when the nights get close to frost (which was actually today). I put them on a southfacing windowsill in the winter. Relatively cool temps (compared to what it's used to) in the summer and a very dormant winter.

They grow maybe a 2 inches a year. Last year one of my cacti didn't grow at all. The growing tip didn't get lighter and produce any more tissue, it also looked rather dark. I figured it was going downhill and I might as well harvest it.

It was about 10 inches long and 2 inches across. I cut up the whole thing (even the roots, I just pulled it out from the pot). I then put it on a cookie sheet and dried it in the oven at 170-200 for a few hours. I ground up the dried bits and did 3 methanol pulls on it then evapped.

It was a very strong trip for the amount of material used.

I know it's just one test of this grow method but I think low light and relatively cool temperatures has a tendency to produce stronger cacti.
 
who knows, it could really go either way....

a cactus is a fairly different organism compared to a species of grass....

Stressing it could cause it to put more effort into surviving and maintaining vital processes for life instead of producing mescaline....

Pot is kind of the same way, you kill the males so it will put more resources into producing THC than reproducing.... and provided everything it needs to sruvive comfortably, it can do that function pretty damn well....

I would say try providing your cactus with correct levels of the vitamins and minerals it needs as well as whatever amount of water and sunlight it needs to thrive....

worst case scenario you end up with a bigger cactus, which in the end will result in more mescaline, even if its not more mescaline by weight, you have more weight if it grows up nice and healthy....

if mescaline is produced as a means of defense against things that might try to consume it, producing superficial wounds on the plant might make it produce more.... poking it with a needle like someone said to simulate bugs trying to eat it...
 
I completely forgot to mention that you would without a doubt produce more total mescaline if it had optimal conditions and acquired a large mass.

Stressing only increases mescaline concentration; definitely not the total amount. If you have the means to give it optimal growing conditions, by all means do it.
 
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