Ximot
Bluelighter
tokyo, a decade ago, almost.
regarding the rest, fee free to pm me. i don't think all that belongs here. and the thread isn't "friendly" right now, i don't feel like writing here and absorbing that energy much more...
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Life Advice & Visual Arts
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Travel The MEGA Travel Thread!
- Thread starter Jamshyd
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tokyo, a decade ago, almost.
regarding the rest, fee free to pm me. i don't think all that belongs here. and the thread isn't "friendly" right now, i don't feel like writing here and absorbing that energy much more...
junctionalfunkie
Bluelighter
I'm going in September.
Hardships be damned.
I've lived in hell before. It can't be that bad.
Jam, feel free to PM me w/ details of why you found Thailand so intolerable.
-p
Hardships be damned.
I've lived in hell before. It can't be that bad.
Jam, feel free to PM me w/ details of why you found Thailand so intolerable.
-p
GoddessLSD-XTC
Bluelighter
I thought Thailand (Bangkok) was a lot of fun and fascinating . . . I was the only tourist in many of the places I went to in the city.
I bought lotsa computer programs (Adobe Illustrator, Pagemaker) for only $13/ea. (They have a large electronics mall where they copy the program . . . U hafta wait about 15-minutes.) If I ever go back again, I'm getting a nose-job for like 1/3rd the price.
Every morning, before sunrise, I went to Lumphini Park for a walk . . . like a circus there with thousands of Chinese people. One time, I sat at a bench where these Chinese men were taking bets? . . . one of them had a little notebook with all sorts of tiny, neat tallies. I hardly spoke to anyone and no one ever bothered me.
Bring Potassium tablets (they don't sell them in stores there), U'll need them 'cause U'll sweat alot (or eat bananas . . . lotsa different varieties) . . . I chew about three tabs.
MynameisnotDeja
Bluelight Crew
If you're just going for fun no worries. Jam's bad experiences were with living and working there, if you are just going to travel you will have a good time, I promise. :D
Ximot
Bluelighter
I think you can also have a good time if you work there as long as you don't take your work any more seriously than they do theirs. In a land of highly inefficient people, lower your expectations, be as inefficient as they are... they're in a rut economically not least cos they're so inefficient. Leave your Western work ethic in the West if you go to the East and adapt... When in Rome, do as the Romans do ... giving myself advice here... 
carl
Bluelighter
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I think you can also have a good time if you work there as long as you don't take your work any more seriously than they do theirs. In a land of highly inefficient people, lower your expectations, be as inefficient as they are... they're in a rut economically not least cos they're so inefficient. Leave your Western work ethic in the West if you go to the East and adapt... When in Rome, do as the Romans do ... giving myself advice here...
Sounds great, but not always so easy. I worked in diving, where lackadaisical work ethic is dangerous. I've even had incidents that would not have happened in the west involving safety occur in Thailand, and not only be accepted, but excused away. This is fine in my line of work, but I have a very good friend that has just resigned after working for a Thai airline for two years. He is a Canadian trained pilot who left after many many safety lapses. After working to change his flights for two years, he finally gave up and left for safer skies.
The Thai work ethic may work in some areas, but it doesn't everywhere. The Thai's have not realized this yet. The One-2-Go crash in Phuket a few years ago is prime example. On the same note, as a teacher, I would never give the same effort that is required in the western classroom. It would not only go unappreciated, but might upset colleagues thinking you are trying to one-up them.
LOL, Thai society is so different than what I think it should be. Silly me.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
^ Yet ANOTHER person running away from the woes of working with the Thai? Wow, I'd be shocked if that didn't happen.
The Thai "work ethic" is designed for doing Thai things.
The Thais want to become as financially-prosperous as the westerners, so they try do western things (like Scuba Diving instruction).
Western things need to be done with a western work ethic.
You cannot be western, and do a western job in Thailand, but "adapt" to a "Thai work ethic" doing it, because it simply won't work.
It was the same in Japan, btw... I know a guy there who came to Japan specifically because of what he perceived as a Japanese Work Ethic that he admired and wanted to emulate. Well guess what, he became an alcoholic.
I just don't buy the when-in-rome thing, because people wherever will go out of their way to remind you that you're the outsider whether they intend to or not, no matter how much you acclimatize. Take it from an immigrant.
p.s. I apologize for darkening this thread and being racist and a bigot - I guess being realistic just isn't in fashion these days.
The Thai "work ethic" is designed for doing Thai things.
The Thais want to become as financially-prosperous as the westerners, so they try do western things (like Scuba Diving instruction).
Western things need to be done with a western work ethic.
You cannot be western, and do a western job in Thailand, but "adapt" to a "Thai work ethic" doing it, because it simply won't work.
It was the same in Japan, btw... I know a guy there who came to Japan specifically because of what he perceived as a Japanese Work Ethic that he admired and wanted to emulate. Well guess what, he became an alcoholic.
I just don't buy the when-in-rome thing, because people wherever will go out of their way to remind you that you're the outsider whether they intend to or not, no matter how much you acclimatize. Take it from an immigrant.
p.s. I apologize for darkening this thread and being racist and a bigot - I guess being realistic just isn't in fashion these days.
carl
Bluelighter
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I think some don't understand that the vast societal and cultural influencess are present, and create stark differences between they way a westerner raised in Canada and a Thai raised in Nong Khai think, act, and behave. They interpret your highlight of the difference as racism, because they might still hold the belief that "we're all just the same." By recognizing the differences, we can work together to reach a common goal. It's the refusal of those who fail to recognize the elephant in the room that creates train wrecks, and a lot of situations leaving folks feeling "greng jai."
Ximot
Bluelighter
The when-in-Rome approach works extremely well if Romans are a lazy bunch and you yourself are a lazy git... I certainly am. Basically, were i to work as a qualified and experienced English teacher there, i would earn roughly 25% - 33% of what I am making at home. Now why would I go out of my way to make an extra special effort for that? The money's not worth it. I don't even do it there, even though I know I'm very good. And it wouldn't matter, really... in diving, yeah, of course, that's another story altogether.
carl
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^So you feel it' OK that Thai and Western teachers in the kingdom don't give a rat's ass about their students? That's because you are getting roughly 1/3 of the UK base pay (where hard currency prices are higher by 300-400%)? I Don't understand how you can sleep.
Ximot
Bluelighter
I do not think that. I just think there is less pressure to get things done quickly. Western syllabi are often too ambitious and there is pressure to get through everything. Whatever I do, I do it as best I can. But I do what i can not to overexert myself. Teaching in the West is actually extremely tiring. I taught in Japan before and it was way more chilled. Perhaps one reason was that in Japan my students were actually genuinely motivated, unlike at home in Europe, where it feels like more work because there is more resistance, plus far more testing and grading - but also a way better package in terms of social security, pension, and paid holidays. Truly it is all give and take, isn't it? Thing is - if you're an experienced teacher then you know this - if your students are genuinely motivated, then whatever you're going to do with them won't really feel like work.
let me rephrase what i said before, because I didn't mean to suggest that "Thai and Western teachers in the kingdom don't give a rat's ass about their students" ... I meant to say that all things happen at a much slower pace. They take it easy... not to say that no work is done, but in an EFL class in Southeast Asia there just isn't the pressure that you get at Western secondary schools. And I certainly wouldn't make more of an effort than any of my colleagues, Thai or Non-Thai. That's a far cry from not giving a rat's ass or whatever.
let me rephrase what i said before, because I didn't mean to suggest that "Thai and Western teachers in the kingdom don't give a rat's ass about their students" ... I meant to say that all things happen at a much slower pace. They take it easy... not to say that no work is done, but in an EFL class in Southeast Asia there just isn't the pressure that you get at Western secondary schools. And I certainly wouldn't make more of an effort than any of my colleagues, Thai or Non-Thai. That's a far cry from not giving a rat's ass or whatever.
carl
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^Well, I certainly can understand where you are coming from. I'm sure you have noticed, but Thailand and Japan are very different places. Attitudes about education differ vastly between the two cultures, where Thai culture doesn't appreciate or honor scholarship. That's going to create a very different classroom situation, where students are not motivated. This brings us back to working where it's not appreciated, like in a Thai classroom. I know quite a few professional educators who spent time in Thailand. None of them remain, and they've all relayed that Thai classrooms are a joke, teachers do not care, and classes basically do what they please with the teacher trying to provide some semblance of control. The story is similar from everyone, no matter if you taught at Chulalongkorn or Thamrasit or at the local public schools in Prachuap Kiri Khan, Satun, Nong Khai, or at the private schools in Silom.
Basically, I'm arguing that the Thai education system is failing it's students by allowing this cultural element to be brought into the classroom.
By being lazy in education, and by not valuing it, what does the kid that grow up to be an airline pilot do... he does what's easy. He stays lazy. Fuck that, if you want to be complicit, go for it. If you want to argue that the Thai education system is not like that, please do. But don't compare Japanese education to Thai education to defend it.
Basically, I'm arguing that the Thai education system is failing it's students by allowing this cultural element to be brought into the classroom.
By being lazy in education, and by not valuing it, what does the kid that grow up to be an airline pilot do... he does what's easy. He stays lazy. Fuck that, if you want to be complicit, go for it. If you want to argue that the Thai education system is not like that, please do. But don't compare Japanese education to Thai education to defend it.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
I can attest to that (in fact, I'm going to guess that I am one of these teachers that Carl is referring to).
Ximot, I taught in Japan as well as you know (and still appreciate your friendly support w.r.t. that, btw
). While I wouldn't exactly call it "chilled", teaching Japanese students is infinitely more satisfying than teaching Thai students. If you don't mind the Japanese-ness of the Japanese educational system, it is, at least up to high-school, a very good system (university is another matter).
The Thai educational system is a joke. I taught in two public schools there. The first one in particular was a total disaster. Students and teachers do everything in school except teach and learn.
In both schools I taught at, NONE of my western colleagues had ANY experience or qualification teaching English. Yet, they were paid more than I was (and I have a B.A., two TESOL diplomas AND experience). Do you know why? Because Thai people want a white clown. Although I look white, my name is Yazan (with an even stranger last name) and my hair and eyes are dark... and I'm a small person... hardly the dominant colonialist whose ass the Thai so love to lick.
Mr. Bungle is absolutely right - if you actually care about your students (or care about anything or anyone, really)... then Thailand is maybe not for you.
In a nutshell, the Thai educational system is designed simply as an institution whose objective is to socialize students into the hierarchy of Thai Society (King on top, of course). Actual education seems to be a necessary inconvenience on the agendas of policymakers and school headmasters.
But who am I to say? I'm a racist.
Here is a less racist scholarly analysis of the Thai educational system (especially the Social Sciences) that I think is very much worth reading.
Mulder, Niels, Thai Images: The Culture of the Public World, Silkworm Books (June 1999)
Strangely enough, he reaches the same conclusion, albeit with historical, qualitative, and quantitative evidence...
carl said:
THANK YOU.
I wish more people were as understanding as this.
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Haha!Perhaps not, but then again I hear a white husband is even more fashionable than a Louis Vuitton handbag over there
Good thread.
I'm hoping to go and teach in Viet Nam soon, maybe it'll be the same for me?
But I did find Vietnamese to be the friendliest and most welcoming of Asian people I met.
I always think of that Boy Zone song, 'As long as you love me' or something.. seems to be the ideal metaphor for how Viet Nam has bounced back after the war. Plus they're just learning English, give it a few years and they'll be trying all their new found tricks to make an extra buck on any and all Caucasians.
Ximot
Bluelighter
Hmm… I haven’t taught in Thailand yet so I can’t say. But if it is as you guys describe then it seems perfect for one who likes to make a bit of money and enjoys the company of people. If learning goals come second then who am I to disagree really? If there is a desire to learn, I am happy to facilitate that process as best I can. But if there is resistance, then I won’t go out of my way to fight that culture of “sanuk” …
Same in high school here... I tell my students to take it or leave it, it's all Darwin at the end of the day. I might be disappointed with how it goes in the classroom then, but as long as I get paid alright and they're happy with what I do and keep me on the payroll, then why not? Seriously, why bother going against the grain of a culture and thereby burning yourself out and ending up tired and frustrated? I see nothing wrong with adapting, especially if it makes for an easy life.
Mind you, i am a bit jaded, and close to burnout anyway, as I have been teaching non-stop for the last 10 years now. And I do not expect to be doing much teaching when I first get to Thailand. Unless it pays handsomely and I find that I need the money.
I taught in Japan for 18 months, and during that time I worked for 8 different schools, in a ll kinds of situations, students ranging from age 3 to age 80+ ... kindergarden total-physical response stuff, adult community college classes offered by local councils, one-on-one conversation classes, business English (in-company as well as at an institute), high school (assistant teacher - i think that was one of the most frustrating jobs I had), vocational college (one for tourism, where kids were truly dumb and lazy and it was very frustrating - and one which did prep for students who want to pass Ielts or Toefl to go abroad to study, and this was my favourite job really... they were smart and motivated and loved me as much as I loved them). never did university in J-land but from hearsay I know it to be tough in the sense that for Japanese students, university is party-time and they don't really study hard. So despite the good pay and decent holidays of a Japanese uni teaching position, seems they may not be the best jobs. On top of that, what you earn as an EFL teacher in Japan puts you in the working class there… the vast majority of Japanese earn WAY more than your run-of-the-mill EFL teacher there. Why wear yourself out for that? Of course, if a student or group of students is genuinely keen, then I am more than happy to make a special effort for them, but then it won’t even tire me and I will feel good about it anyway.
Overall I have found that the paradox of teaching is that one must have expectations, of course, but that all disappointment comes from expectations that aren't met... Now, i try not to have too many expectations any more, and I heed the lesson one of my tutors taught me : don't make more of an effort than your students do. I think that's only fair as long as i start out all nicely motivated and motivating to make sure a climate that favours learning has a chance to be established in the first place. Anyway I need a break from it for a while because I seem to be doing it all on auto-pilot these days. Plus, when I have long teaching days I find that after a few hours my energy is gone because I kind of overshot in the early classes of the day, investing too much energy in those without having enough energy left for later classes...
Anyway, yes I can sleep with my laziness... as long as I can look in the mirror and look into my eyes and know that I am actually doing my best in terms of what I deem reasonable in order to preserve good mental and physical health as well. That may not always be so much but hey, no point resisting a general tendency, especially if that is one that slows things down. If that is so, then so be it... gotta have to live with it then. Be aware that teacher burnout is a real thing few are truly immune to in the long run. Understand that teaching equals performing to a large extent and so it really is rather tiring. And know that in the teaching profession there is an above average rate of mental difficulties such as depression and other stress-related ailments. Look after yourselves... learning goals are all god but not at any price. At the end of the day it is all about trying to encourage learner autonomy, whereby the teacher ideally become sa mere facilitator who won't wear himself out trying to drum things into stubborn minds that don't want to learn. If that doesn't happen, I consider my need to eat and live (for which I need money) and I am thankful that I get paid for hanging out with people in a classroom rather doing a boring office job, and I gladly take the money and become... well, yes, let me say it.. a mercenary. We all have to live somehow...
I might well try and teach a bit after a while, just to make sure I get the cultural experience of the Thai classroom.
But first I will probably go to a Thai language school and spend the rest of my time doing yoga and making friends exploring the alternative music scene.
Long post, more about teaching than about Thailand.
jamshyd, thx for that reading suggestion. I will get my hands on that. --EDIT: just got my hands on it, haha... found a second-hand copy of it for €7 incl postage. Isn't that nice?
Same in high school here... I tell my students to take it or leave it, it's all Darwin at the end of the day. I might be disappointed with how it goes in the classroom then, but as long as I get paid alright and they're happy with what I do and keep me on the payroll, then why not? Seriously, why bother going against the grain of a culture and thereby burning yourself out and ending up tired and frustrated? I see nothing wrong with adapting, especially if it makes for an easy life.
Mind you, i am a bit jaded, and close to burnout anyway, as I have been teaching non-stop for the last 10 years now. And I do not expect to be doing much teaching when I first get to Thailand. Unless it pays handsomely and I find that I need the money.
I taught in Japan for 18 months, and during that time I worked for 8 different schools, in a ll kinds of situations, students ranging from age 3 to age 80+ ... kindergarden total-physical response stuff, adult community college classes offered by local councils, one-on-one conversation classes, business English (in-company as well as at an institute), high school (assistant teacher - i think that was one of the most frustrating jobs I had), vocational college (one for tourism, where kids were truly dumb and lazy and it was very frustrating - and one which did prep for students who want to pass Ielts or Toefl to go abroad to study, and this was my favourite job really... they were smart and motivated and loved me as much as I loved them). never did university in J-land but from hearsay I know it to be tough in the sense that for Japanese students, university is party-time and they don't really study hard. So despite the good pay and decent holidays of a Japanese uni teaching position, seems they may not be the best jobs. On top of that, what you earn as an EFL teacher in Japan puts you in the working class there… the vast majority of Japanese earn WAY more than your run-of-the-mill EFL teacher there. Why wear yourself out for that? Of course, if a student or group of students is genuinely keen, then I am more than happy to make a special effort for them, but then it won’t even tire me and I will feel good about it anyway.
Overall I have found that the paradox of teaching is that one must have expectations, of course, but that all disappointment comes from expectations that aren't met... Now, i try not to have too many expectations any more, and I heed the lesson one of my tutors taught me : don't make more of an effort than your students do. I think that's only fair as long as i start out all nicely motivated and motivating to make sure a climate that favours learning has a chance to be established in the first place. Anyway I need a break from it for a while because I seem to be doing it all on auto-pilot these days. Plus, when I have long teaching days I find that after a few hours my energy is gone because I kind of overshot in the early classes of the day, investing too much energy in those without having enough energy left for later classes...
Anyway, yes I can sleep with my laziness... as long as I can look in the mirror and look into my eyes and know that I am actually doing my best in terms of what I deem reasonable in order to preserve good mental and physical health as well. That may not always be so much but hey, no point resisting a general tendency, especially if that is one that slows things down. If that is so, then so be it... gotta have to live with it then. Be aware that teacher burnout is a real thing few are truly immune to in the long run. Understand that teaching equals performing to a large extent and so it really is rather tiring. And know that in the teaching profession there is an above average rate of mental difficulties such as depression and other stress-related ailments. Look after yourselves... learning goals are all god but not at any price. At the end of the day it is all about trying to encourage learner autonomy, whereby the teacher ideally become sa mere facilitator who won't wear himself out trying to drum things into stubborn minds that don't want to learn. If that doesn't happen, I consider my need to eat and live (for which I need money) and I am thankful that I get paid for hanging out with people in a classroom rather doing a boring office job, and I gladly take the money and become... well, yes, let me say it.. a mercenary. We all have to live somehow...
I might well try and teach a bit after a while, just to make sure I get the cultural experience of the Thai classroom.
But first I will probably go to a Thai language school and spend the rest of my time doing yoga and making friends exploring the alternative music scene.
Long post, more about teaching than about Thailand.
jamshyd, thx for that reading suggestion. I will get my hands on that. --EDIT: just got my hands on it, haha... found a second-hand copy of it for €7 incl postage. Isn't that nice?
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Ximot
Bluelighter
Oh yeah, about Thailand...
questions.
What are my options to live there, ie to get a visa for a year or so?
register as a student at a Thai language school?
start working full-time for an English school, then quit when I got my visa sponsored by them? (that's how i did it in japan)
any other options?
what's the story with the visa run to penang/malaysia etc..?
what's teh longest visa i can get as a tourist and how long is the longest extension?
questions.
What are my options to live there, ie to get a visa for a year or so?
register as a student at a Thai language school?
start working full-time for an English school, then quit when I got my visa sponsored by them? (that's how i did it in japan)
any other options?
what's the story with the visa run to penang/malaysia etc..?
what's teh longest visa i can get as a tourist and how long is the longest extension?
Ximot
Bluelighter
hmm... sure, with my temperament and my leftist penchant to wake young people up to delicate realities i will have to make sure I never say what I think about his royal highness and that whole system of exploitation ... it could cost me my freedom...
But, if I care about those students, maybe I really SHOULD go there. make sure they at least have a qualified teacher who knows what he's doing.... rather than not go and leave the place to totally non-serious teachers.
carl
Bluelighter
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hrm, I'm not going to touch on the classroom stuff, that's not my area of expertise, and those that have taught in Thai classrooms can share experiences. If you can embrace the attitude that only things involving 'sanuk' are worth doing, then you may like Thailand after all.
The visa situation in the Kingdom is constantly evolving. What I'm writing is true NOW, but it may not be true tomorrow and it might have changed since you were last there. I know this to be the current situation though....
1st... visa exempt countries.
There is a long list that includes most western nations for visa free entry to the kingdom. These are generally referred to as "stamps" within the kingdom. They get you a 30 day stay free of any paperwork when you arrive in Thailand by air. If you cross a land border, you are given 15 days. These are given to anyone. You can enter as many times as you like in a year on these "stamps," but are limited to stay only 90 out of every 180 consecutive days. There is no extension for visa exemption stamps.
Tourist Visas
T class visas are given at any Thai embassy or consulate, anywhere in the world. They are valid for six months from the date of issue. They are generally given for periods of 60 days, and another 30 days can be added at immigration offices within the country. When you are in the country on Tourist visas, your time DOES NOT COUNT for you 90 day limit on exempt stamps. Tourist visas are not a viable way to stay in the country long-term, as once you have so many in your passport they will decide to deny your visa and add a stamp to your passport letting everyone know you were denied a tourist visa, and also letting everyone know you are now banned from the embassy where you applied (this happens a lot in Penang).
Education Visas
Education visas are difficult to come by these days. It used to be very easy to enroll in Thai language school and get your paperwork, and never show up for a course. These days are now gone, there is no easy ED visa anymore. Thai language schools are now very tightly controlled on their visa sponsorships, and if you miss a class at language school you may just have your visa revoked and end up persona non grata in the kingdom. They really will do this, as I have seen it. They don't even tell you your visa has been revoked, they just do it. The schools are required to report your attendance and progress, not something I'm willing to mess with.
Business visas
Type B visas are generally very easy to get, so long as you are willing to dump 800,000 THB into a Thai account (where it's very difficult to expatriate the money again) and are willing to apply for your visa from your home country. Note that this does not give you license to WORK, this is not a work permit. These visa come in a variety of lengths and extendabilities. Any good immigration attorney can help you with one. You will need to set up a sham company, have Thai board members of said company, and also show assets in the kingdom of a certain value, aside from your bank account.
Type O Visas
Type O, or non-immigrant visas, are probably the most common visas for long term expatriates of the kingdom. The only way you will be issued a Type O without the right help these days is by being hired by a Thai institution. Foreign teachers are now required to have a TEACHING DEGREE, not just a random 4 year degree, to teach legally in the kingdom. So unless you have a teaching certificate from your home country, you will be working illegally (or willing to pay outrageous fees for a Thai certificate). These visas are sometimes available anywhere in the world, at any Thai Embassy or Consulate. Availability changes, some months they need to be applied to from your home country, others any Embassy or Consulate will do. They require documents form your employer, a background check from your home country (even if you haven't lived in or been to your home country for many years), and the usual pointless bureaucratic forms.
WORK PERMITS are separate from visas. A business visa /=/ a work permit, and having a work permit with a B visa does not entitle you to work. See, it gets complex
You must have the correct visa with your work permit for it to be valid. Work permits are tied to an employer and a location. If you worked for a private language institute which had two locations, you are only legally allowed to work at one location, the address displayed on the permit. You are working illegally if you are caught at your employer's second location. Work permits are quite spendy, and are designed to discourage hiring foreign workers. In some areas, monthly taxes on foreign workers run 8000 THB a month, the same as many Thai's salary.
Hope this helps. It's daunting, I know. But I managed to hack it for three years in the kingdom without going crazy with visa nightmares. You'll find a way if you want to stay.
One more note, overstaying is no longer an option in the Kingdom, it's become prohibitively expensive and the Thai's are not shy of locking up westerners for immigration violations. It's now 500THB per day,maxing out at 20,000 penalty. You will also do your jailtime if you overstay too long, or are caught on the street with expired papers. If you make it to the border, and are on the way out, but cannot pay, you also get to visit prison.
The visa situation in the Kingdom is constantly evolving. What I'm writing is true NOW, but it may not be true tomorrow and it might have changed since you were last there. I know this to be the current situation though....
1st... visa exempt countries.
There is a long list that includes most western nations for visa free entry to the kingdom. These are generally referred to as "stamps" within the kingdom. They get you a 30 day stay free of any paperwork when you arrive in Thailand by air. If you cross a land border, you are given 15 days. These are given to anyone. You can enter as many times as you like in a year on these "stamps," but are limited to stay only 90 out of every 180 consecutive days. There is no extension for visa exemption stamps.
Tourist Visas
T class visas are given at any Thai embassy or consulate, anywhere in the world. They are valid for six months from the date of issue. They are generally given for periods of 60 days, and another 30 days can be added at immigration offices within the country. When you are in the country on Tourist visas, your time DOES NOT COUNT for you 90 day limit on exempt stamps. Tourist visas are not a viable way to stay in the country long-term, as once you have so many in your passport they will decide to deny your visa and add a stamp to your passport letting everyone know you were denied a tourist visa, and also letting everyone know you are now banned from the embassy where you applied (this happens a lot in Penang).
Education Visas
Education visas are difficult to come by these days. It used to be very easy to enroll in Thai language school and get your paperwork, and never show up for a course. These days are now gone, there is no easy ED visa anymore. Thai language schools are now very tightly controlled on their visa sponsorships, and if you miss a class at language school you may just have your visa revoked and end up persona non grata in the kingdom. They really will do this, as I have seen it. They don't even tell you your visa has been revoked, they just do it. The schools are required to report your attendance and progress, not something I'm willing to mess with.
Business visas
Type B visas are generally very easy to get, so long as you are willing to dump 800,000 THB into a Thai account (where it's very difficult to expatriate the money again) and are willing to apply for your visa from your home country. Note that this does not give you license to WORK, this is not a work permit. These visa come in a variety of lengths and extendabilities. Any good immigration attorney can help you with one. You will need to set up a sham company, have Thai board members of said company, and also show assets in the kingdom of a certain value, aside from your bank account.
Type O Visas
Type O, or non-immigrant visas, are probably the most common visas for long term expatriates of the kingdom. The only way you will be issued a Type O without the right help these days is by being hired by a Thai institution. Foreign teachers are now required to have a TEACHING DEGREE, not just a random 4 year degree, to teach legally in the kingdom. So unless you have a teaching certificate from your home country, you will be working illegally (or willing to pay outrageous fees for a Thai certificate). These visas are sometimes available anywhere in the world, at any Thai Embassy or Consulate. Availability changes, some months they need to be applied to from your home country, others any Embassy or Consulate will do. They require documents form your employer, a background check from your home country (even if you haven't lived in or been to your home country for many years), and the usual pointless bureaucratic forms.
WORK PERMITS are separate from visas. A business visa /=/ a work permit, and having a work permit with a B visa does not entitle you to work. See, it gets complex
You must have the correct visa with your work permit for it to be valid. Work permits are tied to an employer and a location. If you worked for a private language institute which had two locations, you are only legally allowed to work at one location, the address displayed on the permit. You are working illegally if you are caught at your employer's second location. Work permits are quite spendy, and are designed to discourage hiring foreign workers. In some areas, monthly taxes on foreign workers run 8000 THB a month, the same as many Thai's salary.
Hope this helps. It's daunting, I know. But I managed to hack it for three years in the kingdom without going crazy with visa nightmares. You'll find a way if you want to stay.
One more note, overstaying is no longer an option in the Kingdom, it's become prohibitively expensive and the Thai's are not shy of locking up westerners for immigration violations. It's now 500THB per day,maxing out at 20,000 penalty. You will also do your jailtime if you overstay too long, or are caught on the street with expired papers. If you make it to the border, and are on the way out, but cannot pay, you also get to visit prison.
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GoddessLSD-XTC
Bluelighter
^^^ Wish the U$A was as strict as that!
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