enlightenment √ now what...?

[Changed]

I've sort of been trying to find the answer to this question for the past 3 years...

Say one combines a rigorous regiment of mushrooms and meditation and finds himself thoroughly convinced that materialism and consumerism are the causes of human suffering. This person meditates, hones his mindfulness and expands his loving-kindness...

How does this person, on the Earth in the year 2009, escape the stranglehold of consumerism and fruitless desire for accumulating wealth. Do you think it is possible to live this way at all?


I seem to have been wavering on this precipice for a while- as if I'm so close to actually realizing the Right Path, but it's being blocked by something I can't see...

 

[Jamshyd]

My personal answer, as someone who would never use the word "enlightenment" or its derivatives in the same sentence as "I"...

You cannot escape said stranglehold. Even if you go to a forest and live as a hermit, you're under the watchful eyes of satellites. You are chained to the state by links of bureaucratic papers. And the forest you're living in? It'll likely be cut down soon!

So what can we do? Integrate what can be integrated, and play along where something cannot be integrated.

The world is a great game, the lila of illusion. Everyone who realizes this must learn to act and play by the game's rules.

Again, that is simply my current opinion, and I do not mean to present it as fact. It is very likely to change as I continue to grow...

 

[mr_p]

^ well said Jamshyd...

i would add a humble zen quote~

"Before enlightenment.. Chop Wood and Carry Water

after enlightenment.. Chop Wood and Carry Water"

I think the key word though is "Integration"

i believe it is time now, more then ever... for those who are awake and aware to come down from the mountains and find/share their gifts with this world... and lay down the foundations for a more just, sustainable and heart-centered humanity

I also believe we are all in this together, as one, and we must work together to plant our seeds of change in a world that is in need of not only ecological restoration .. but a restoration of awareness and connection (Self, Community, Earth)

 

[jackie jones]

How can one ever say "Enlightenment, check." ?

 

[Changed]

How can one ever say "Enlightenment, check." ?

Yes, I was leery of the response it would garner, but I figured it would be something to draw people in.

Obviously enlightenment is something beyond attainable. I meant more along the lines of "awakening to the true nature of things."

 

[Changed]

i believe it is time now, more then ever... for those who are awake and aware to come down from the mountains and find/share their gifts with this world... and lay down the foundations for a more just, sustainable and heart-centered humanity

I also believe we are all in this together, as one, and we must work together to plant our seeds of change in a world that is in need of not only ecological restoration .. but a restoration of awareness and connection (Self, Community, Earth)

Yes, I like all this also, but how is this going to get done? I've seen similar stuff coming from Obama: he preaches these sermons on how he's going to make the world better, but never comes up with a concrete plan of action.

 

[BurnOneDown]

My personal answer, as someone who would never use the word "enlightenment" or its derivatives in the same sentence as "I"...

In spiritual context, the notion of enlightenment and the personal humility that accompanies it exist in such contradictory fashion that it seems intentionally ironic. I desperately want to believe that it is an early imminence of the subtle humor that Zen Buddhism has come to be known for. It could certainly be more accurately as a gradually deepening awareness of one's relationship to the universe. There is just nothing glamorous or sudden about it.

Yes, I was leery of the response it would garner, but I figured it would be something to draw people in.

Pure intentions produce pure results. Your indirect topic title will influence the responses your topic garners.

Say one combines a rigorous regiment of mushrooms and meditation and finds himself thoroughly convinced that materialism and consumerism are the causes of human suffering.

I think human suffering could more be better understood as a part of human nature. There is no escaping it. Our minds know reason, emotion, and pleasure in an indifferent cause-and-effect based existence so we also must know suffering. Achieving a stable personal state will help minimize it though.

How does this person, on the Earth in the year 2009, escape the stranglehold of consumerism and fruitless desire for accumulating wealth. Do you think it is possible to live this way at all?

Stop clinging to the idea of an escape for one. Then stop resisting suffering. Achieve a stable personal state of being. Be compassionate. This will all help minimize suffering.

I seem to have been wavering on this precipice for a while- as if I'm so close to actually realizing the Right Path, but it's being blocked by something I can't see...

There is no Right Path. There are many different paths for many different people that vary infinitely in reaction to infinitely fluctuating circumstances in order to suit an individuals best interests. Flow like water. That is the Buddha nature. Your car breaking down is just a chance to stop and smell the roses.

i believe it is time now, more then ever... for those who are awake and aware to come down from the mountains and find/share their gifts with this world... and lay down the foundations for a more just, sustainable and heart-centered humanity

I appreciate your constructive approach, but human nature is human nature. To each their own - not everybody's is enlightenment and compassion. Furthermore, a variety of personalities offers more to appreciate. I would get bored interacting with a bunch spiritually fulfilled individuals.

 

[mr_p]

^ I'm not quite sure what your point is in relation to my post

Yes, I like all this also, but how is this going to get done? I've seen similar stuff coming from Obama: he preaches these sermons on how he's going to make the world better, but never comes up with a concrete plan of action.

how is it going to get done ??? it's happening, imo

people tuning into their gifts/intuition and taking action on what they believe in

 

[Changed]

and the answer eludes me once again...

 

[Changed]

or maybe there is no answer, and that is the answer.

 

[RhythmSpring]

If the answer is that there is no answer, then that isn't an 'answer' it is just a man-made truth in response to an untruthful question. The answer is:.

The answer is.

What one must do is transcend intellectual answers, answers that reside in papers, in bureaucratic mandates. Why do we look to bureaucratic action as evidence of progress?

Perhaps the "answer" is then within. Perhaps the "answer" is something subtler, something beyond action as we know it in today's endgoal-oriented society. Perhaps it lies outside of the methods we are used to.

 

[Nibiru]

How does this person, on the Earth in the year 2009, escape the stranglehold of consumerism and fruitless desire for accumulating wealth. Do you think it is possible to live this way at all?

Move out of Babylon. You do this in your mind. A person doesn't need to run away from it to move out of it.

 

[Changed]

If the answer is that there is no answer, then that isn't an 'answer' it is just a man-made truth in response to an untruthful question. The answer is:.

The answer is.

What one must do is transcend intellectual answers, answers that reside in papers, in bureaucratic mandates. Why do we look to bureaucratic action as evidence of progress?

Perhaps the "answer" is then within. Perhaps the "answer" is something subtler, something beyond action as we know it in today's endgoal-oriented society. Perhaps it lies outside of the methods we are used to.

I'm not looking for the answer from the government...

I'm trying to find a way to live that doesn't include all this money chasing and materialism.

 

[mr_p]

simple.

find a lifestyle that doesn't including chasing materialism and money

you can't exactly live without a degree of material tools and money to acquire what you need to do what you want to do, but you can work towards loosing the attachment to them and use them as a pathway to living simpler (and thus source your joys from simpler things)

everyone's got to find their own answer to such questions ...

I see what your posts are getting at and in a lot of ways i feel the same ~ but my personal belief system is: this system is bound to fail, it always was... how well we integrate the natural laws of the biosphere into creating a more balanced and sustainable way of living is yet to be seen

as for Enlightenment ~ and what to do after it ... I'm not enlightened so how could i ever answer that ~ I presume the OP means 'after waking up or having some form of realization' what to do....

INTEGRATE THE AWARENESS into this world.

 

[Shakti]

There is just nothing glamorous or sudden about it.

BurnOneDown, I consistently read you saying statements like this. I agree that enlightenment as long as we live isn't ever complete. It can always be deepened and this process is largely slow and steady. However, where I disagree with you in part because of the exception that is satori. It is all-encompassing immediate and very sudden realization (even though it is often the product of consistent practice). I'm interested in how you conceptually resolve this seeming contradiction.

 

[Changed]

BurnOneDown, I consistently read you saying statements like this. I agree that enlightenment as long as we live isn't ever complete. It can always be deepened and this process is largely slow and steady. However, where I disagree with you in part because of the exception that is satori. It is all-encompassing immediate and very sudden realization (even though it is often the product of consistent practice). I'm interested in how you conceptually resolve this seeming contradiction.

I'm guessing from the long-winded response that he is not one that follows the Zen point-of-view.

 

[swilow]

How does this person, on the Earth in the year 2009, escape the stranglehold of consumerism and fruitless desire for accumulating wealth. Do you think it is possible to live this way at all?

Yes, you can escape.

No, it is not possible to live that way.

Just don't be concerned with what happens anymore.

 

[DHYANA]

The purpose is not to escape. The purpose is to transform oneself so as to better help humankind. At least in the Mahayana Buddhist tradition...

I've spent a number of years visiting and some periods living with a group of Zen monks that live a few miles down the road from my parent's home. They are all lovely people...but they are very much within their community...they reach out in all directions to everybody surrounding them. Yes, there is turmoil, yes it upsets their tranquil balance from time to time. However, they would not have it any other way. It is Right Practice for them.

There's also tons of hours of incredible and deep silence where staring at a wall your brain transforms (DMT and 5-meo-DMT release) and you feel things click into place. This is called 'samadhi' and can be experienced in degrees.

If you find the need for a change, then Change, Changed! Why not reach out to other practicing Buddhists and try to find a teacher that can guide you? We are humans, we work best in groups on all things, even seeking enlightenment.

 

[Changed]

If you find the need for a change, then Change, Changed! Why not reach out to other practicing Buddhists and try to find a teacher that can guide you? We are humans, we work best in groups on all things, even seeking enlightenment.

yes, I think this would help. I will be sitting with a group this summer %)

 

[Changed]

this afternoon I was reading Watts' The Way of Zen and found it extremely helpful:

the perfect Way (Tao) is without difficulty,
Save that it avoids picking up and choosing.
Only when you stop liking and disliking
Will all be clearly understood.
A split hair's difference,
And heaven and earth are set apart!
If you want to get the plain truth,
Be not concerned with right and wrong.
The conflict between right and wrong
Is the sickness of the mind.

an amazing poem from "the oldest Zen poem."

he goes on to say: "The point is not to make an effort to silence the feelings and cultivate bland indifference. It is to see through the universal illusion that what is pleasant or good may be wrestled from what is painful of evil. [...] The logic of this is so simple that one is tempted to think it over-simple. [...]

this seems to apply perfectly to my situation of searching...