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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

No addiction until pueberty?

Drinking alcool when you''re young can be very dangerous because you don't have the enzyme wich eliminate ethanol (IIRC).
 
Dude, drinking young and setting up that wonderfully fucked up mesocortical dopamine pathway early is the best way to get a lifelong drug problem. It could also indicate strong genetic predisposition. Be careful for the rest of your life, because you may be especially susceptible to drug problems.

Also: Drew Barrymore is hardcore.
 
You can be addicted before you are even born, if your mother uses drugs while you're still in the womb.
 
^ lol ok, my bad. I wouldn't say those two words were massively different though..
 
That's not addiction, that's dependence. They're two massively different things
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You are right in some definitions of addiction which encompass psychological addiction and physical addiction. However, I can tell you from personal experience the addiction that is attached to dependence is much harder to stop.

'Dude, drinking young and setting up that wonderfully fucked up mesocortical dopamine pathway early is the best way to get a lifelong drug problem'

yeah, I really have to agree. You had a taste now if you're smart you'll get out while you still can. I'm in my 50's and still trying to kick.
 
^ Thats interesting? Can you go into more depth how early drug use can change your NS/brain?
 
^ Yea, you should start a new thread, but I think it would be germane enough to stay here too.
 
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121501572/abstract

"Is It Important to Prevent Early Exposure to Drugs and Alcohol Among Adolescents?"
Candice L. Odgers
Abstract: Exposure to alcohol and illicit drugs during early adolescence has been associated with poor outcomes in adulthood. However, many adolescents with exposure to these substances also have a history of conduct problems, which raises the question of whether early exposure to alcohol and drugs leads to poor outcomes only for those adolescents who are already at risk. In a 30-year prospective study, we tested whether there was evidence that early substance exposure can be a causal factor for adolescents' future lives. After propensity-score matching, early-exposed adolescents remained at an increased risk for a number of poor outcomes. Approximately 50% of adolescents exposed to alcohol and illicit drugs prior to age 15 had no conduct-problem history, yet were still at an increased risk for adult substance dependence, herpes infection, early pregnancy, and crime. Efforts to reduce or delay early substance exposure may prevent a wide range of adult health problems and should not be restricted to adolescents who are already at risk.
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This article references THIS:
Grant, B.F., & Dawson, D.A. (1997). Age at onset of alcohol use and its association with DSM-IV alcohol abuse and dependence: Results from the National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey. Journal of Substance Abuse, 9, 103–110. Links

And I also found THIS, which suggests methylphenidate, depending on when it's delivered, can either increase or decrease reinforcing effects of cocaine; either way, it seemed to predispose 'em to depression even if it didn't predispose them to cocaine abuse:

Carlezon, Mague, and Andersen, "Enduring behavioral effects of early exposure to methylphenidate in rats ", Biological Psychiatry
Volume 54, Issue 12, 15 December 2003, Pages 1330-1337
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This study shows an increased susceptibility to cocaine's rewarding effects after adolescent exposure to nicotine:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1847361
Susan C. McQuown,a James D. Belluzzi,a and Frances M. Leslie. "LOW DOSE NICOTINE TREATMENT DURING EARLY ADOLESCENCE INCREASES SUBSEQUENT COCAINE REWARD." 2007; 29(1): 66–73.
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There are also a bunch of studies suggesting cocaine's ability to sensitize the NAc has effects on increasing drug-seeking behaviors. We should research receptiveness to learning new behaviors, 'cause the effects of learning on the amygdala feed right the fuck back into the VTA, and by the VTA to the NAc, which links up to the PFC and helps sway executive functioning toward the whims of conditioned responses. Refs for all that available on request. Either way, learning has a ton to do with it, and you're more open to that at a young age.

Either way, there's a lot of back and forth on it. Some people say MPH prevents coke administration. Others disagree. Some say it's just MPH that does that, and that cocaine use (especially at high doses) might be different. Also, the questions about the longitudinal effects on kids (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/111/1/179) is, would that reduction in drug use be different if the use of MPH was recreational and of higher dose? I remember one study where the VTA was sensitized in rats who were actively pressing a lever for cocaine, but not in those who were getting it passively. So it seems INTENT to use is important, and little kids being fed pills are not models of drug abusing teens taking substances of their own volition. Also, studies show that rats who are exposed at pre-adolescent ages are desensitized to cocaine, but the opposite is true of "adolescent" rats. So maybe the prime age for susceptibility is older than the kids in those studies. Either way, there are MANY unanswered questions, and I urge you to take a look at some of the research out there and try to help me figure this out. I'm just a poor little 24 year old with no education in this field trying to piece all this together, so any assistance would be very welcome. :)
 
You can - and most certainly will - get addicted before puberty, too. I would think that the psychological part of addiction (or dependence...fuck the terms, the psychological part of it) will be even worse because at that age one is usually much easier to condition than at adult age. - Murphy
 
maybe you just didn't know what addiction was back then n thought you were just sick. who knows.
 
I want to address another part of the OP's post. He mentioned that he drank for a week straight and upon cessation, experienced aches and other symptoms associated with withdrawal.
One week of drinking is nowhere near a long enough period for someone to develop a true physical dependence and associated withdrawal. It takes quite a long time of heavy drinking in order for true physical dependence to develop. These symptoms you mentioned were much more likely due to an unrelated illness, or even perhaps placebo (though i think my former suggestion is far more likely). DG
 
Alcohol is a very violent drug. I'm not moralizing. I drink too much. A few days of serious drinking can create withdrawal symptoms -- perhaps not seizures and so on, but pretty serious stuff. It hits all the major organs, screws with electrolytes which screw with everything else. Physical dependence to alcohol takes quite a while to acquire, but withdrawal symptoms may be felt pretty quickly.

I worked with a group of hard core alcoholics and they had to be very very careful in their withdrawing. All had had longstanding alcoholic habits, but had only been back on booze for relatively short periods.



Other very addictive drugs have very little physical addiction -- eg coke. Withdrawal is massive depression in all senses. Downers tend to have more physical withdrawals -- eg benzos -- heart racing and seizures.
 
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